I want to get my feelings about dh off my chest; bit of a long drawn out rant, sorry, feel free to ignore!

[Mossy]

I've been trying my best to get over the way dh acted towards me in the last few weeks of my pregnancy and now ds is born but I'm finding it difficult so just wanted to get it off my chest.

For the last few months of my pregnancy dh withheld sex; he later told me this was because he had found the whole huge, stretchmarked, lying on the couch exhausted in a comfy dressing gown thing a huge turnoff.

As soon as I went one day overdue he started heaping the pressure on for me to be induced. In the end I bowed to the pressure at +15 days (my decision too, as I could see my maternity leave ticking away, but if I'd had more support from him I may have stuck it out longer) and it was horrible.

When ds was born, for the first week he was the doting father, changed nappies, cuddled him, bathed him etc. but as soon as the crying started dh's interest just waned and it was all down to me; especially as this co-incided with his paternity leave ending.

When ds started wanting to bf round the clock at about three weeks (as it was the only thing that would stop him crying) dh's solution was to try and pressure me to ff him.... not so I could get a rest, oh no. So that I could "at least sweep the hall and wash the dishes" because it was the first thing he saw when he came in from work.

Dh was convinced I had pnd and this was the reason why I was in tears most of the time, nothing to do with his complete lack of support and his going on about the housework not being done, and pointing out that I should be doing exercise by now to lose the weight and stop scoffing chocolate in such copious amounts.

So I went to the Dr. and got put on 20mg Prozac a day.

It made it a lot easier for me to deal with ds' constant crying, and with me finally getting some excellent rl bf support, and with him simply getting older (11 wks) his crying has calmed down and he is much happier. So now the housework does get done.

Dh thinks that ds' increased happiness is because "happy mum = happy baby" with the implied criticism that ds was unhappy because I was.

Dh and I sleep in separate rooms, initially this was a week-day arrangement to enable dh to get enough sleep for work, and then we'd sleep in the same room at the weekend and I would feed ds but dh would settle him after a feed. But now it's every day, with the clause that at weekends, dh will take ds off me for two hours to enable me to lie in.

Initially this was bonding time; dh would take ds for a walk around the park in his baby carrier thingy; the last few weekends now ds is happier and less demanding, it has been dh lying on the couch watching telly with ds in his baby bouncer being "good" (i.e. quiet).

Dh does do all the cooking. But even this is because if I cook I might - horror of horrors - not cook everything from scratch and might for example occasionally use a jar of sauce to save time.

And now he keeps making pointed comments about money, and that my maternity leave comes to an end "really soon" (September) and I had better start looking for a job soon (I don't plan to go back to original job).

Now ds is a lot easier to look after, and I can whizz around getting the house work done. It's not difficult, and as for the nights, I just put myself to bed earlier and have learned to feed lying down. So it's not as if dh's actions are putting me out any more. But I just wanted to rant. Not particularly after advice as such; the only question I have really is, what the hell has happened to the loving, supportive dh I had for the first seven years of our marriage?

Xenia - why is your answer to almost every single relationship type problem "go and get a well paid / better paid job" ??

If it was that easy to find a "well paid" job, most people would go out and get one, me included. Even if you leave aside people's individual circumstances, individual skills & qualifications, commitments, commuting abilities, childcare requirements etc etc., there simply isn't a plethora of "well paid" jobs there for the taking.

Presumably, if there was, we'd soon experience rampant inflation with all that entails.

There will always be "lesser" paid jobs - simple economics - and someone has to do them. If everyone hypothetically retrained for all these jobs with great salaries, you can bet that those salaries wouldn't remain high for long with it becoming an employer's market.

I can sort of see the theory of your arguments but the reality of them is pie in the sky, and rarely an option for most people.

Mossy - not sure I have any useful advice for you

He seems to think being home all day with a baby is like a holiday.
I would recommend leaving him with the baby all day as soon as possible and a list of household chores

The weight/exercise comments are really not on. Lack of sleep is proven to interfere with weight loss and I don't hear anything about him offering to look after your LO so you can rest

xenia-not everybody wants to return to work as soon as theyve given birth,there are some women,even those who have well-paid,interesting jobs to go back to,who want to spend the first precious few months with their baby.

and i think the recommendation is still thhat you should have the baby in your room till they are 6 months old?

Mossy

So sorry you feel so bad.

Similar situation.

Like you as soon as due date came and went he put pressure on me to have the baby induced - once arrived was nothing but a prat, hugely obstructive in my trying to bf and was a complete arse.

Like you when I brought it up with him he said I'd been a complete nightmare (yep, just had a baby, a c-section and a suspected broken foot while he expected me to run round after him). Like you he attributes my attitue to being depressed and mad (hurt and angry) and says now that I'm calmer (decided to ignore him and concentrate everyting on ds).

You dp sounds like an infantile prat - put him in is place and fast.

How DARE he make a comment about your weight.

Most lesser paid jobs are done by women unfortunately!!!

I wish I could get a bloody better paid job, then I could reduice my hours and spend more time with DCs...[rant, rant]

LOL are STRAWBERRY BLONDE!! - that's a POLITE way of saying "ginger"
Us Gingers need to UNITE!

Mossy - your DH sounds very, very childish and spoilt. How can you put up with his childish comments?

I reckon he's jealous 'cos he's not your baby any more! Now you don't have time to mother him

ooops baby crying...must dash

Mossy - so sorry the way things are panning out. I hadn't read your more recent posts, and I do really think your husband needs to take his head out of his arse unfortunately. However that doesn't help you, so I'll try and be more constructive.

I do think a lot of men cannot understand in the beginning how overwhelming having a baby is for a woman, not just the obvious lack of sleep, feeding difficulties, exhaustion, pain etc but also the emotional upheaval which is separate to all these things. I don't think men can really appreciate the phenomenally strong bond between a mother and her child and how every little thing is of huge cause for concern. I know my DP didn't, but that didn't stop him supporting me as much as he was able in the early days, given he has health problems to deal with himself - it still didn't stop me feeling he was not doing enough sometimes however. The things your DH has said to you are completely unacceptable in someone who claims to love you. I think he needs it battered into him how wrong and unacceptable it is to make any sort of comment about a post-natal woman's weight, appearance etc.

I second the comments about leaving Bertie with him for a day and/or night, but also maybe seriously asking him to spend a few nights elsewhere so he can think long and hard about his behaviour. It sounds serious, but maybe then he will realise just how badly he has damaged your relationship. You can tell him it's not irreparable, but that now he needs to make the overtures. So far it seems to be you who has acceded to his requests - that needs to stop. There is no way you should be feeling forced into getting a full time job just because he's being a wanker. It's hardly going to help things if you feel you are forced away from your son because of his father's problems with his arrival. This time with the LOs is precious, and you will never be able to get it back. Only work full time if that's what you need to do for yourself, not to try and get some "balance" back in your relationship. Your DH is the one who needs to restore the balance, not you. You are working full-time now, never forget that!

By the way, my DP does all the cooking, which is great, but tbh he enjoys it and can do it very quickly. He's always done it, so nothing has changed there in terms of altered housework arrangements since DS came along. If it's the same with you, which I think it is, you can point that out to him too.

I'm so sorry you're going through such a bad time. You're a top woman and a fantastic mother and while your DP has acknowledged the second point, he needs to start making sure his actions back up his words. And I'm with Foxy on the usefulness of a full-blown screaming match now and again! I usually hate conflict, but within a relationship I think it's necessary now and again! Good luck.

mossy, hope you are feeling better in yourself for letting him know how you feel. threatening to leave you because you hate him- very risky from his point of view, as you might have told him to b off then! (i think i would have said if he would be happier if he left, to go, but if he wanted to stay then fine, but things have changed/ will change. life's too short.

and as for getting him to come in to bed with you- he is lucky you want him to. its all a bit one sided mossy. he wants the old you back doesn;t he? but she has gone for good.

don;t let him undermine you- its not good for your stress levels and your baby will sense it. (i did read this in a book, mind, so not sure how true it is)

Okay, he should be able to rise above things to support you, but you think he's a bit depressed?(people can be horrible and very selfish when depressed) his self esteem must be very low or he wouldn't feel the need to bring you down.

So you are in crisis and pulling apart when you need to be pulling together.

My dh is great when he is here but that was easy for him he only lives with us for a few days every two weeks! And now he is ill so I can't ask much of him. So I'm having to be all nice and supportive to him and hide my rage that he can't help me when I need him. I would rather he was able to muck in with us even if it was all a mess at times.

Depression is an illness though and should be treated as such even though you need him to be strong now...it can't always be like that.

Xenia, you know I was wondering where you were to tell me to go back to work!

But in all seriousness I have given it some thought. Not the well-paid bit - easier said than done! - but I have wondered if things would be easier if I just got a full-time job, comparable with his, and passed ds over to mil to look after.

But after a lot of thought I've decided it isn't what I want to do; I want to look after ds as much as I can during his first year, and that means finding something part-time as I planned originally.

Mumsville, is "our" dh a bigamist do you think? The situations sound very similar.

Anyway last night we dropped ds around at mil's for a bit and had a reasonably calm chat. I explained again - managed without crying this time thank goodness - about how I'd felt during the first six weeks or so, how hurt those comments had made me, how the initial "chat" we had during which I struck the "bargain" to take prozac and lose weight in return for support, had been nothing but one-sided and completely unfair.

He said he'd been really hurt by the fact I couldn't think of anything positive to say about him, but that he'd had it tough during those first six weeks too; he'd had to go back to work at a tough time (he was the only one in an office that should have three people for three weeks) and he was struggling to come to terms with his new role as a Dad. He also said he found me a nightmare, with "constantly complaining on about his latch-on" and "treating formula like it was something from the devil when it might have helped" and my "constant paranoia" that he was trying to undermine me bfing.

I basically told him, tough shit, I had just had a baby, I should have had support for the first six weeks, I said Doctors won't even give you the Edinburgh test for the first six weeks 'cos you're so all over the place with hormones and the way he acted was appalling. I said, mil had apologised for the way she had tried to push me to put ds into some kind of schedule re: the bfing in the early days, she realised now she was interfering, why couldn't he?

And... he sort of apologised.

He said he had had things tough and with hindsight he might have acted differently.

(That's an apology from him. )

I didn't push it, and we continued to talk about the future.

He agreed he'd stop the snide comments. He admitted he was jealous that I didn't have to go out to work, but agreed he shouldn't therefore try to make things more difficult for me.

He accepted I had it just as tough if not tougher than him, and I accepted that it was more rewarding, at least, being at home with ds, even though it was difficult.

Anyway I had better go and change the nappy of said child but things are slightly better here.

Mossy my dear. I'm afraid to say that the more you write about him the more of a git he seems to me.
He is self obssesed and very immature. From what you have described all he has done is think about his own needs, he needs a jolly good slap .

Well, I'm glad you managed to have a decent talk.

Jesus, it really is all about him, isn't it?

MOSSY has had a baby. MOSSY is exhausted. MOSSY is worried about breastfeeding her NEW BABY.

But no...it's all about HUSBAND. HUSBAND has had a bad time at work. HUSABAND is tired.

Well, it ain't all about him. It's about you and your baby. To be brutally honest, you two are the ones that matter right now, and he needs to realise this if you're not going to go sliding down the PND chasm.

I'd like to give him a good slap but instead I will just be all nice and say:

1. Give him some time. I constantly veer between wanting to slap silly men who can't get their heads round being dads and trying to be generous and accept that their lives have changed too. Time can help as baby gets easier and you get more used to things.
2. Resist the urge to get into a 'who's got it toughest' argument. These lead nowhere. I speak from experience.

(BTW - RP = roleplaying - used to do AD&D as well - now we just do it online on World of Warcraft!)

I second the slap

No comments to make that haven't already been made... it just smacks of immaturity doesn't it...

... hopefully he will do some growing up. Once that begins to happen, if you can keep communicating, I reckon your feelings towards him can begin to change. You'll never forget what he said to you, but hopefully - if he changes his ways enough - you can forgive him.

Once he's grown up a bit he'll see how outrageous his comments were and realise he owes you a huge apology.

Mossy, great to hear you are communicating. I hope it all keeps improving from here on in and you get your 'newman' back. Did he not have a dad around much? Maybe he hasn't got good male role models around to help him into fatherhood?
There are some really good books around for new dads. Anyone know any to suggest?

Krang, my ds (almost 16) is eagerly awaiting world of warcraft to arrive in the post. He has been playing Final fantasy online but fancied a new challenge. So if you come across a crazy over enthusiastic newbie...it could be him!

Message withdrawn

for the RPG geeks

mossy-i was going to say something about men and how they always have to be right and cant admit when they are wrong etc but then i though about my dp,who is only young,and how,when i have apologised for being a PITA the past few weeks he has said 'its ok,its understandable under the circumstances'.when i talk about my efforts to lose weight he says 'you dont need to lose weight'and when i say i'm worried he doesnt find me atttractive he says 'its you i love,not what you look like,anyway,you've recently had a baby,you cant expect to get straight back to your pre-preg size'(or words to that effect).the things your dh are saying to you very sadly remind me of the things my xp used to say to me,and he was an abusive bastard.

xp also used to go on+on about how hard he had it at work(while i was sat in my arse doing nothing all day)how he was the only one who knew what he was doing and had to do everything blah blah,and that i didnt realise how difficult things were for him.he also used to go on about my weight,and why didnt i ask some of the dancers from his work(he was a sound technician at a holiday ents venue)about healthy eating and excersise etc.when i said that made me feel awful,he said he was only trying to help me.

looking back,i should have told him i didnt give a toss about his work 'problems',that if he felt he was being treated unfairly then he should discuss it with his boss,and put his foot down.and i should have said 'but (dickhead),you really dont want me to lose weight,as that will make me feel better about myself,and realise that other men still find me attractive,then i will realise that you are a tosser and i will leave you'.

your dh needs a reality check,to realise what he stands to lose if he doesnt grow up.

Only a quick one for me as I am running out the door to get DD1 and go to Tesco. Clearly my role as wife and mother means that dinner must be on the table, or at least underway, when DH comes home from earning £££.

Glad things are a bit better Mossy. Second the advice about leaving him to look after DS for a day or so. Try asking him to do just a couple of tasks at the same time while you are out - eg put wash on, hang it out then fold and put away AND make dinner. That will make hm realise that it isn't all sitting aroudn playing with the baby.

Must go - love to you and DS XXXX

Taht was a funny link Diva

Krang you are right, when you put it like that! Yes, it's all about him isn't it? I hadn't thought of it in quite that way. Yes, he has to make sure he's never being "taken the piss out of" and that he's never getting a "bad deal".

Lily, his Dad was an alcoholic for most of his formative years, and then when he stopped drinking, he turned to having lots of affairs and generally being a prick, who gave mil no help and no respect. He earned lots of money and was a very well-respected member of the local community (was principle of the local college). Hence we have dh who sees a man's role as doing very well in his career, and being fixed on his job. Of course dh would never see it like that, he has always said he wants to be the kind of Dad his Dad never was. But he doesn't have any other role models... I do wonder if that has something to do with it actually.

Dolly, yes, and do make sure that when he comes back you have a nice clean pinny on, you want to make sure you look nice for him don't you?

Diva your dp sounds dead nice, does he have a brother?

Muppet I am hoping he will grow up and one day turn to me and say, "I'm sorry, I really was a nob wasn't I?" but if Dior's story is anything to go by I doubt it will happen.

You know, the thing is, he gave me his sort of apology yesterday, and then today said, "oh I'm still really hurt about what you said about not finding anything positive about me, you didn't mean it did you?" I said no, with my fingers crossed behind my back. But why is it still about him and how he's hurt?

Can't remember who said it further down, but I have decided now just to concentrate on the business of raising ds and looking after him, and mainly ignoring dh. But if he does do anything nice, I will make sure I acknowledge it.

God it's like training dogs, rewarding good behaviour.

Mossy have him spend one of your usual days with ds all alone
And then let him view work as a chore

Seriously, keep drilling it in to his head.

My dp is a bloody saint I think.
He expects nothing and i always pleased when something is done

WE ahve compromised mostly on food sicne ds3 was born.
WE go convenience whereas before I was militant from fresh preparer

So we get cooked chicken, bagged salad and washed new potatoes
Fresh pasta sauce and salad

steak and salad jacket spuds

Stuffed pre prepared chicken breasts (nice ones no crap in them etc) broccoli and wild rice etc

This saves me going mad at the worst time of the day when 3 kids all need feeding and bathing plus if dinner is not started when dp gets home he can crack on with it or bath kids whichever one I've had enough of.

I ask for help if something is needed, he will always do it.
He has never commented on my appearance except to say yesterday, oh your hair is greasy, do you want me to hold Finn while you shower, if you've not had a chance all day.

This is normal and bear in mind my dp has just been headhunted and is about tos tart a job with a 2 hr each way commute in order to coem home to this madhouse every night!

Your ds will get easier Mossy and your DH will find it easier to help out for mroe reward
As DP puts it - honey for the first 6 mths he's nearly all yours.

But as you are juggling probable depression, a feisty baby, exhaustion and breastfeeing problems, the he has to lower his expectations of what is achieveable in a day in your position.

So the trite thing, aim for one thing every day and do it is about right.
One day cook
one day washing
etc etc

And clearly define what you would like him to do when he gets home.

I must agree with many that he does sound like a very immature and selfish arse though.

Lots of men do grow up eventually, and can look back and acknowledge how bad they were before...there is hope Mossy. And if he has the wherewithall to grow and learn with this experience that is the best thing.
My Dad is a great man and he will admit that he was a twerp when he was younger and that humility is part of his charm and strength now.

mossy-my dp has 2 brothers,one of 16 and one of 18 months

i can,i hate to admit,slightly relate to that 'not being taken the piss out of' attitude,as i am the same in alot of ways,and constantly on the alert for ways dp may be taking me for a fool.but i recognise this as a bad thing and am trying to change it,as i know it stems from insecurity due to my past relationships.

my xp's father has no respect for his wife.she has suffered chronic depression for many years and he treats her as though she is a burden to him,and should consider herself lucky that he is even still with her as she is such a pain.but he is also well respected in the community,and all his mates are full of admiration for him,despite the fact that he has had at least one affair(their attitude is 'well,the poor bloke deserves a bit of happiness with all hes had to put up with').it was no wonder xp grew up with the stinking attitude to women he has.

all i can advise you is to stay the strong woman that you are,keep reminding yourself that your dh is being an arse and you have done nothing to deserve it,it is his problem,refuse to back down on anything and hopefully he will realise one day soon that hes been a twat and needs to grovel big time.

You never know, Mossy, your DP might one day admit his knobbishness. These first few months with a new baby are such a blur. They are so crazy and there's so much adjusting to do. I look back upon the first few months with my DS and can't quite believe some of the things I did and said. Annoyingly my DH was a saint so I can't even blame them on him. Damn...

I'd certainly give it some time, and try not to rise to him or take anything he says seriously. If you don't respond to his needling he might start listening to himself and have a moment of knobbish revelation.

I love that link, diva!

Well Mossy. I was feeling pleased(ish) with the way my post preg weight loss was going. Today had on a new pair of jeans and a nice top. When I said this to dp his comment was "You're getting there"!, not "yes you're looking good" etc.
I'm getting there, but obviously am not there yet

Kitty what a thoughtless thing to say!

Diva, sixteen years old - well I always fancied having a toy boy

Piffle your dp sounds lovely. Was he always like that?

Krang / Lily, I am hoping he will grow up soon.

Any tips for getting him to become more mature and less "knobbish"?

kitty-getting where?omg some men are so thoughtless.these men are all reminding me of xp,who once looked at me in digust post-dd1 and contracepive injection,and said 'you're ballooning' then wanted to do 'it' later on so i said 'why do you want to s**g me if i disgust you?' and he said 'a hole's a hole'.

a few years later,when we'd been split for a long time and he'd been with his current dp for about 3 years,he said 'you look great now,why couldnt you have been that slim when i was with you?'.i said'i was still the same person inside,like you're still a prick same as when we were together'.

krang/lily-dp found that vid on a gaming forum he frequents.its funny but it gets stuck in your head...which can be rather embarrasing if you're prone to randomly bursting into song like i am.

mossy-have you asked your dh if he has considered the fact he could lose you if he doesnt get his act together?i think he needs a shock.