I want to get my feelings about dh off my chest; bit of a long drawn out rant, sorry, feel free to ignore!

[Mossy]

I've been trying my best to get over the way dh acted towards me in the last few weeks of my pregnancy and now ds is born but I'm finding it difficult so just wanted to get it off my chest.

For the last few months of my pregnancy dh withheld sex; he later told me this was because he had found the whole huge, stretchmarked, lying on the couch exhausted in a comfy dressing gown thing a huge turnoff.

As soon as I went one day overdue he started heaping the pressure on for me to be induced. In the end I bowed to the pressure at +15 days (my decision too, as I could see my maternity leave ticking away, but if I'd had more support from him I may have stuck it out longer) and it was horrible.

When ds was born, for the first week he was the doting father, changed nappies, cuddled him, bathed him etc. but as soon as the crying started dh's interest just waned and it was all down to me; especially as this co-incided with his paternity leave ending.

When ds started wanting to bf round the clock at about three weeks (as it was the only thing that would stop him crying) dh's solution was to try and pressure me to ff him.... not so I could get a rest, oh no. So that I could "at least sweep the hall and wash the dishes" because it was the first thing he saw when he came in from work.

Dh was convinced I had pnd and this was the reason why I was in tears most of the time, nothing to do with his complete lack of support and his going on about the housework not being done, and pointing out that I should be doing exercise by now to lose the weight and stop scoffing chocolate in such copious amounts.

So I went to the Dr. and got put on 20mg Prozac a day.

It made it a lot easier for me to deal with ds' constant crying, and with me finally getting some excellent rl bf support, and with him simply getting older (11 wks) his crying has calmed down and he is much happier. So now the housework does get done.

Dh thinks that ds' increased happiness is because "happy mum = happy baby" with the implied criticism that ds was unhappy because I was.

Dh and I sleep in separate rooms, initially this was a week-day arrangement to enable dh to get enough sleep for work, and then we'd sleep in the same room at the weekend and I would feed ds but dh would settle him after a feed. But now it's every day, with the clause that at weekends, dh will take ds off me for two hours to enable me to lie in.

Initially this was bonding time; dh would take ds for a walk around the park in his baby carrier thingy; the last few weekends now ds is happier and less demanding, it has been dh lying on the couch watching telly with ds in his baby bouncer being "good" (i.e. quiet).

Dh does do all the cooking. But even this is because if I cook I might - horror of horrors - not cook everything from scratch and might for example occasionally use a jar of sauce to save time.

And now he keeps making pointed comments about money, and that my maternity leave comes to an end "really soon" (September) and I had better start looking for a job soon (I don't plan to go back to original job).

Now ds is a lot easier to look after, and I can whizz around getting the house work done. It's not difficult, and as for the nights, I just put myself to bed earlier and have learned to feed lying down. So it's not as if dh's actions are putting me out any more. But I just wanted to rant. Not particularly after advice as such; the only question I have really is, what the hell has happened to the loving, supportive dh I had for the first seven years of our marriage?

You know, I do wonder where all this obsession with cleaning has come from. The Blonde, you know we only have a two up two down terrace, we don't actually need a cleaner, that's the funny thing. On the rare occasions that ds lets me put him down for a nap, I can get everything done that needs doing.

What dh means is that it should be superclean, you know, like - well, I'm not sure what like. Everything perfect. Pristine. As Diva says, net curtains washed etc. - well, okay we don't have net curtains but you get the picture.

Dolly I don't know about childcare. See the big advantage of mil is that she is 100% free. Sounds awful this, but in a way, if she wasn't offering childcare, we'd then have to find a solution and it probably then wouldn't be financially viable for me to go back to paid work for a little while.

Muppet your dh sounds lovely. If I told dh that though he'd say, "well yes but they have more kids you only have one baby," or some other such thing because he honestly believes he does more than any man ever has done in the entire history of the world.

Diva I do think he has depression. He won't go to a gp (long drawn out story to do with medical records and a previous job application) but has agreed - through gritted teeth - to take some St John's Wort as you don't need a prescription for it. I don't know how long before it kicks in though. Soon I hope.

Rosy I'd love to be able to say that to my dh, but sex seems to have disappeared from the agenda!

I really find it upsetting how he seems so anti-breastfeeding. After I've worked so bloody hard to carry on doing it with all the problems, I don't want to stop now! And he just can't see that!

I feel like I'm going round in circles. I want us to be happy again as a couple with a young baby.

Silly things, too, like we never go out me him and ds, it's always "let's just drop ds off at mil's and go out for lunch," never "let's you me and ds go out for lunch" or something like that. Now, now and again I think it's fine, but shouldn't he want to show ds off to the world? He's a very cute baby and yes sometimes he can be "laughing boy" but generally he's quite "good" when he's out because it's all very distracting.

And not even wanting to bath him? That I just don't get! I'm not asking him to change a pooey nappy, this is a fun thing!

And yet, he's out tonight playing squash because, he says, "I don't want to be one of those Dads who has to go in goal because they're too knackered when their son is older".

WTF? Why not do something with him now?

Kitty I can keep saying "no" and sticking to my guns but it is hard.

I do wish his Mum would bog off sometimes; he's so reliant on her. She has always been really good but recently ... I don't know.

I think she has funny ideas about bfing too because she managed 3 months with dh and always regrets not carrying on longer but she went back to work.

I'm rambling now.

I just don't know what to do! Couples' counselling sounds like a good idea, but how much would it cost? I could do with something cheap - or free - really!!

ah,so he knows hes depressed but doesnt want to take responsibility for it?maybe hes worried he will get signed off work or something?

i tried st.johns wort for a time,i dont know if it helped though

i dont know about couple councelling but my councelling is free through sure start,and i know my local MIND offers councelling for £5 a session,maybe you could look into those options?

Mossy I am so sorry you're still struggling and that your DP is still being such an arse.

That last post was very telling I thought. I don't know why (probably being thick) but I haven't picked up on how little involvement your DP has with Bertie and how he avoids being with him - either on his own or with you.

I'm sure someone else has already said this but it sounds like he's really jealous of Bertie. Jealous of the time and energy you're giving him which he's translating into you not being available to clean the house. it's just something tangible that he can complain about when really he's pissed of at your focus on Bertie. It seems like he's viewing him as some kind of competition rather than assuming the parental role alongside you. Maybe you could try couching it in those terms? Like that Bertie needs a dad?

But counselling may well be the way forward as it does sound like he's decided he's right and you're wrong. If his mum is backing him up (and I have to say I think she's behaved pretty shoddily) it makes it that much harder to convince him you're right, particularly as you don't have your own family to draw on and fight your corner. You could try approaching your GP as dolly suggested - they may be able to put you in touch with someone who can see both of you and act as an objective arbiter.

Mossy your dh makes me so mad and I so feel for you.
AS the wizened and haggard od mother of 3 kids I want ot ofer the following

It will get better - first babies can be a massive adjustment to really well fitted and settled couples - I was fortunate enough not to have a partner with my first and looking back I am relieved I think.

Our deal here is also that as the house person I do most of the housework, dp also knows the reality is some days are just shite and that it backs up and then it's ok for him to help and not moan.

I know you want your relationship to work and I seriously think your issues together are way beyond working/money and cleaning - I do agree with Saz, he is jealous and floundering and thinks picking on you will make him feel bigger and more important and in charge somehow - he alos knows your MIL is your biggest support and that by collaring her for him again, your ally is no longer as easy to use as she was.

Also what if ds did not improve and settle more easily on formula, and you had to work.
the what for night feeds and morning routines and housework and weekend lie ins

Mossy I don't know what to advise

PND sometimes causes mothers problems bonding with their babies.i have heard many women say 'i looked after him/her,fed,changed him etc,but i didnt feel any love for him' or similar.maybe your dh has had a bonding problem?i think some sort of councelling is essential,he needs to understand why he's feeling that way,and find a way to overcome it so that he can be a good dad

Mossy - I think as others have said he may be jealous
He certainly thinks being a SAHP is a holiday

I don't know what to suggest

Have you tried all going out for a walk at the weekend incl DS and the dog(s)?

hee hee, we must of got sick of talking babies, everyone's on this thread trying to sort Mossy's love life!

Mossy I can't say my witty sexy lines to dh now either, it's been months. I know though, that when things are better for us, so will sex be and everything gets easier.

At this stage, Bertie needs you and you both need his support. As time goes on the relationship will build with baby and Dad. If he's down that goes hand in hand with feeling useless...and behaving uselessly.

I know it's not fair that you have to accomodate him now, but you probably are going to have to be patient.

When a baby comes, everything changes, some things change forever but some things go back to 'normal'.
You used to have a great companionship with dh and a supportive mil, honestly it can be like that again, it's still all there.

If you had family support now it would just put a different perspective on everything but you do seem to have good friendships and mumsnet of course!

Well this morning we had another row.

I suggested couples' councilling (sp?) to him and he said he didn't feel comfortable with talking to a stranger about his relationship but if he had to and I thought it might work, he would give it a go.

I'm afraid I snapped. I said, "you're in danger here of losing your wife and your son and you're not even keen on trying something that might help work things out? If I was in your position I would grab hold of any life raft with both hands! But not you, I don't understand you!"

"See that's the problem right there. I say I will try it but immediately it turns into an attack on me," he said, "and now I have to go and do a full day's work on the back of this!"

He also suggested him getting away for a while so we could see what it would be like without him if that was what was going to happen.

Diva I wonder if that is his problem, and then sometimes I wonder if I'm making excuses for him.

Theblonde I suggest that all the time things like that, all going out, but he doesn;t seem to want to know!

Right typing with 1 hand is getting tiring now will try to comeback if ds ever sleeps today!!

Mossy - you are absolutely right to try to get your DH to couples counselling. Try not to snap however much you feel like it (or feel like stabbing him). Keep focused on the long-term resolution of your problems, not the short-term annoyances. Good luck.

Mossy, that's great! never mind if he agrees reluctantly, at least he agreed. That's all the go ahead you need to go and get counselling.
Just find where you can get it cheaply or free quick!

And never mind if you have a row, couples have rows.

Also, things don't have to be perfect, I think it can be hard to even get through a day sometimes- never mind have a 'perfect' lifestyle. But you can work towards it. If you broke up and started all over again with someone else you would probably face a new set of problems. It's not what they are, it's how you deal with them....

It'll be okay I think/hope, it's a challenge.

Hubs agreed to try counselling Mossy to make the appointment today!!

Is there any chance that, once you have the date / time, you can organise for someone else you trust to mind Bertie?

Don't let him go down the 'taking a break' route. I can't see how it will help him and you will see how much easier it is to manage on your own .

sending lots and lots and lots of love your way.

Hi Mossy I've read your thread and it sounds like you're doing an amazing job with your DS, and you've had lots of sensible advice. I really hope things get beter soon.

I don't know if you've seen the book "What Mothers Do- Especially When it Looks Like Nothing" but I found it really supportive and ended up reading lots of bits out to my DH. It talks about what an important and difficult job being a mother is even if there's nothing tangible to show for it at the end of the day!

Good luck xx

Mossy

Here's a question for you: what can he do to put it right?

defo get to gp and look into counselling and see whether it's free etc... if he's even half open to it just drag him there...

Mossy

Definitely second Sazzy and other people's comments about your DH being jealous. I was thinking about you as I was out earlier having read one of your previous posts and his problem is definitely (well ok, definitely in my not-at-all-qualified-to-judge mind!) with his son, and the fact things have changed since his arrival. What you have said in the intervening time just confirms this, I think. I feel very sad for you that he is not more supportive of you bfing DS, and wanting to spend a bit more time with him before you work again. As other people have said, it's a drop in the ocean in the span of a life, but SO important to both DS and you. A friend of mine just went back to work this week cos she had to for financial reasons, and she sent me a text at the end of the day saying, my advice is: take as long off with the baby as you can. [No offence intended to anyone who is going back to work after 6 months btw, just I know both Mossy and I don't want to.]

I also feel sad for your DH that he cannot see what a good thing he is coming within a hair's breadth of losing - such a fantastic person as his wife and mother for his child. Your house sounds pristine to me btw - seriously, you should see mine. It was never very tidy - now, oh my god!

Hugs to you and good luck with counselling if you can get it.

Mossy maybe I can email you pics of my so-non- pristine house and that's with me getting help to tidy. Perhaps we could all do that .

im not emailing pics of my house,mossy might send the ss round!

seriously,though,he has agreed(in a mans way)to go to councelling,which is a good thing.i think it shows he realises that at least some of the problems are due to him,which is a good start.

tell him though,he is not allowed to use the 'i will go away for a few days so you can see what its like without me' line,it is sooo unoriginal and straight out of the 'typical man's script for everyday situations'[yawn]and translates as 'i feel like forgetting my responsibilities for a few days and pretending im 17 again'.

Hey mossy - wondering how you are doing today (and it is too late to ring you)

You know, you could always come with me at the weekend and leave HIM on his own (I am visiting the olds)

Mossy - if you feel it's best for your baby that you stay at home and breastfeed for a year you go ahead and do it - fight for it. They're tiny for such a short time. You sound resentful now - you'll be bitter before long, particularly if you go back to work.

I went through something similar with dh - he and mil really put paid to my bfing at about 2 months (bullying and witholding baby from me). I still hate them for it. Oddly husband is now trying to force me back to work. Have no job as as I gave up work to try and conceive and get over dh's fertility problems. Now I've served my purpose he wants me to get back to work to bolster the family income. Cheers.

So fight for this now. I met a lady who gave me good advice - better to be a little bit poor and have time to love your baby.

Mossy, here's a thought. Although this might not be really what you feel like doing right now, have you considered suggesting the three of you (you, DH and DS btw!) go away for a few days, or even a week somewhere? It sounds like your DH is not spending, or is choosing not to spend, time getting to know his son and that will just compound the problem. If you can spend a bit of time away from your normal environment, and away from the perceived source of tension, ie the house, then it may do two things: firstly, your DH will see fully exactly what's involved in looking after a baby 24/7 (and will not have another bedroom/mother's house/office/squash court to go to) and secondly, he may get more involved with his son and see him as a person with his own little personality rather than as a problem, which I think he may be doing right now. I know when we went for our first break, my DP really did a lot more with DS and there was definitely a change in their relationship, although he was good with him before, but I noticed a difference. Actually there are three things: you will get a change of scene too! Which is always good when you are seeing the same set of rooms day in, day out, night in, night out...

mumsville, they withheld the baby from you? How on earth did they do that?

Mossy - ask DH why he felt the need to go round to his mother's house with ds that morning and whay he felt the need to sleep?

Just ask for his reasons without being nasty.

Then ask him ( based on his obvious replies) why he feels that you should be bale to do everything that he couldn't manage - but with a bf'ing baby in tow as well.

If he needs more info about bf'ing print it off and give it to him.

Perhaps sitting down to talk, with someone to mediate, would be beneficial but I'm unsure if your MIL fits this description at the moment.

yes-and if he starts with the 'well,put him on formula' crap then tell him he can borrow Elsie for the day,but he has to buy a steriliser,bottles,formula,every type of teat you can imagine(she is using avent ones at the mo which are £4 for 2),a flask for hot water,and a milk powder dispenser.should come to about £80.then if he wants to take her out,he will need a rucksack for the bottles,flask etc(she wont drink ready made but even if she did he would need a way of heating the bottles as she wont drink them cold and most cafes etc wont heat bottles anymore for H+S reasons).

there is a great article somewhere on here,about what formula actually contains,which had me(hardedned formula feeder) almost in tears and wishing i could turn back the clock.i think your dh should read it.

here

Dear Mossy

you are an angel. Dump him, he is past hope, past redemption. He is spoiling what ought to be a wonderful, wonderful time (given mastitis & lack of sleep!)
You cannot stay with him, you will never win an argument, he cannot/will not see that what you do is life sustaining. Sorry to be preachy but i want to give your dh a bloody good glasgow kiss. Just go.