I want to get my feelings about dh off my chest; bit of a long drawn out rant, sorry, feel free to ignore!

[Mossy]

I've been trying my best to get over the way dh acted towards me in the last few weeks of my pregnancy and now ds is born but I'm finding it difficult so just wanted to get it off my chest.

For the last few months of my pregnancy dh withheld sex; he later told me this was because he had found the whole huge, stretchmarked, lying on the couch exhausted in a comfy dressing gown thing a huge turnoff.

As soon as I went one day overdue he started heaping the pressure on for me to be induced. In the end I bowed to the pressure at +15 days (my decision too, as I could see my maternity leave ticking away, but if I'd had more support from him I may have stuck it out longer) and it was horrible.

When ds was born, for the first week he was the doting father, changed nappies, cuddled him, bathed him etc. but as soon as the crying started dh's interest just waned and it was all down to me; especially as this co-incided with his paternity leave ending.

When ds started wanting to bf round the clock at about three weeks (as it was the only thing that would stop him crying) dh's solution was to try and pressure me to ff him.... not so I could get a rest, oh no. So that I could "at least sweep the hall and wash the dishes" because it was the first thing he saw when he came in from work.

Dh was convinced I had pnd and this was the reason why I was in tears most of the time, nothing to do with his complete lack of support and his going on about the housework not being done, and pointing out that I should be doing exercise by now to lose the weight and stop scoffing chocolate in such copious amounts.

So I went to the Dr. and got put on 20mg Prozac a day.

It made it a lot easier for me to deal with ds' constant crying, and with me finally getting some excellent rl bf support, and with him simply getting older (11 wks) his crying has calmed down and he is much happier. So now the housework does get done.

Dh thinks that ds' increased happiness is because "happy mum = happy baby" with the implied criticism that ds was unhappy because I was.

Dh and I sleep in separate rooms, initially this was a week-day arrangement to enable dh to get enough sleep for work, and then we'd sleep in the same room at the weekend and I would feed ds but dh would settle him after a feed. But now it's every day, with the clause that at weekends, dh will take ds off me for two hours to enable me to lie in.

Initially this was bonding time; dh would take ds for a walk around the park in his baby carrier thingy; the last few weekends now ds is happier and less demanding, it has been dh lying on the couch watching telly with ds in his baby bouncer being "good" (i.e. quiet).

Dh does do all the cooking. But even this is because if I cook I might - horror of horrors - not cook everything from scratch and might for example occasionally use a jar of sauce to save time.

And now he keeps making pointed comments about money, and that my maternity leave comes to an end "really soon" (September) and I had better start looking for a job soon (I don't plan to go back to original job).

Now ds is a lot easier to look after, and I can whizz around getting the house work done. It's not difficult, and as for the nights, I just put myself to bed earlier and have learned to feed lying down. So it's not as if dh's actions are putting me out any more. But I just wanted to rant. Not particularly after advice as such; the only question I have really is, what the hell has happened to the loving, supportive dh I had for the first seven years of our marriage?

Just a quick update as ds is waking up now (without screaming, which is unusual!)

Have been having a series of chats with dh over the last two days, which have included an apology and confesion from him.

He admits he's been banging on about housework but said he now sees it from my side, that I do do what I can.

He said he was raised on formula after three months and is very healthy so he doesn't really see that there are that many benefits after the first few months.

But then he admitted he doesn't think our relationship will get back to normal until I stop breastfeeding, as atm he sees me very much as a "mother" and can't find me as sexy. Breasts were always part of the physical attraction he had to me and now someone else has them almost full time - and at night - he finds it difficult.

Also he admitted he finds baby stuff boring, and although he wanted a baby too, what he really wanted was a child, you know one that walks and talks and plays cricket on the front lawn, and promised he would be so much better when ds is older.

But he did say he would make a bit more of an effort now, but that he just wasn't a baby person, and nothing I could do would change that; that would continue to be very much my job.

These last two days have been much better. The atmosphere has been great; we even had a BBQ yesterday, just me, him and ds, no mil, no friends, nothing like that.

But I am aware that dh is very much Jekyll and Hyde (now if he was a sexy Hyde like James Nesbitt...) and I have a feeling this may only be a brief relief, iyswim.

Do you think we should still go on couples' counselling? Where should we go from here? I am a bit confused, glad he has admitted what he thinks but a bit upset about the bfing thing, what can I do to carry on bfing, but to get some kind of sex life back? Has anyone else had this from their dh?

Again, thank you everyone for your support, Diva especially the stuff about ff, I hadn't thought about how complex it would be to be out and about and have to carry all that stuff!

Right ds is having a little wail now so I'd better go.

glad to hear things are better.it really does sound like he's woken up and smelt the coffee.at least he's been honest with you,which is good,things may not become perfect again overnight but at least you are communicating!

not sure about the sex thing,but i dont quite understand it other than the poor man's been brainwashed by our stupid society that makes out breasts are only for men's sexual pleasure.

didnt he ever learn to share?

you could direct him to certain sites on t'internet where he can discover that some men find lactating women very attractive

oh Diva... u make me smile, u really are a mine of information .

I think it is good that hubs has been honest with you Mossy. I don't think that you should dismiss the counselling tho. Even if you communication is getting better, it may be helpful to have someone impartial add their perspective as well as suggesting strategies to overcome the "problems".

To me, saying that he is not a "baby-person" is a cop out. It's too bad really... babies grow in to children so there is no other way of reaching this milestone.

I also don't understand the - it's your job to do the baby stuff. That doesn't explain the previous suggestions that you return to work (and I'm so proud of you for refusing to do this).

Enjoy the romance while it is there for you both. Keep strengthening those bonds - u know he is worth the effort.

Mossy, I'm glad you have had an upturn. Even if everything your DH says isn't exactly what you want to hear, you know where you stand more now.

I SO second everything Diva says about ffing. Seriously, now you have cracked the bfing, you want to enjoy it and not be worrying about sterilizing bloody bottles every few hours etc. The health benefits of bfing until six months at least are proven, I think your DH has his head in the sand if he can't see that. Also, the benefits to you are not inconsiderable either...!

i had some good advice from a friend once who argued that when there was tension, resentment friction in a relationship, sex was often the first thing to go.

you say you had seven loving and supportive years.

the birth of the first child is absolutely fucking gigantic for both parties in any couple but can be devastating for men....loads and loads of men leave/are unfaithful/freak out during and after the first pregnancy and the first couple of years of their childs life.

selfish pricks if you like, but it sounds like he wasn't before you had your son.

I'm not surprised you are angry and resentful and hurt....I would be massively so.

but you had a good relationship and under all this quagmire of doom (sexism, nastiness, spikey freaking out ness) it is probably still there.

he needs help. you both do.

I don't know if counselling is the way forward, for some it might be for others not.

what i do know is that this is only going to get worse if one of you doesn't try to get into the head of the other. it should be him, but i doesn't sound like it's going to be so you'll need to try it if you can muster the will and the energy.

try asking him what has happened, how he is really feeling about having a baby, about you turning from his lover into a mother (think this might be somewhere in the heart of this possibly)? totally understand the unfairness of you having to do the empathising and the exploring...which is why counselling (for him, or for you both) would be an option. but if you're willing to give it a shot? or a couple of shots?

oh christ, just read your last posts.....sorry....had only read op!

really glad you are talking.

Well, Hyde came back yesterday.

We'd had such a good weekend after our chat. Still feeling hurt over the rejection thing while I'm bfing, but managing to cope with it as at least we were talking.

Then we got a bit of a bombshell; money is not what we thought it was, and even with the tax credits it does look like I'm going to have to go back to paid work, either part-time from September, or full-time in January.

After giving it much consideration I plumped for full-time in January, giving me as much time as possible with ds now.

Now the thing is, dh has £3,000 from his Dad in a cash ISA. It was a gift given to him (us?) when I got pregnant. (His Dad is loaded, but this is the first time he's ever given us money, he is very stingy - probably why he is loaded lol!)

I personally think if we used that £3k, I would be able to have my maternity leave for longer than January, in fact I think I'd be able to have it until ds is one in April.

But dh doesn't want to use it. "It's in case of an emergency, like if the boiler blows, or if something goes wrong with the car," etc.

I could understand that stance to some extent, but surely it's best for ds if I'm at home for as long as I can be with him?

Apparently not. Apparently I'm making out that I'm completely altruistic and doing everything for ds without admitting that really it's me who doesn't want to go back to work etc. etc.

And then I did something stupid. He'd parked the car and I was looking after the ticket. Well, I put it in my back pocket, and it must have dropped out when I took my purse out of my pocket. So we had to pay £6 to leave the car park rather than 80p.

And to dh this symbolised everything that was wrong; I'm careless with money, I just don't understand the financial situation, I think there's a limitless pot of money when there isn't, etc. etc.

So yesterday evening, after I'd put ds to bed, it was frosty again. After all the good work of the rest of the weekend, we were back to square one, with dh in a sulky mood.

Now the going back to paid work in January thing I can actually deal with. I intend to express what I can three months' before hand and keep it in the freezer, I also intend to find a nursery one day a week if possible for ds, because mil won't do the Mums and Babies clubs like I do so ds will miss out on interacting with other babies. Also I want to find a job really close to home, in the local council so I can have flexi-time.

And dh will then have no excuse for not pulling his weight. And then I will do all the baby stuff quite happily because he has shown no interest, and it will allow me to bond with ds while I still work.

And the next four/five months I will spend every moment that ds is awake interacting with him and stuff the housework. And if dh says anything I'll tell him exactly why.

And his Mum can just keep her beak out. Any time dh does his "why don't we just drop him off at Mum's so you and I can..." (usually do the shopping, or sit around watching telly, just anything so dh can get away from ds for a few hours) I'll say "no, I have to go back to full time paid work in January so I want to spend every second I can with ds".

I know I sound like I'm being really stubborn and arsey. But now I just think, stuff dh, stuff mil, the next five months belong to me and ds and no one else.

Sorry, didn't realise just how long that would be!

Diva pmsl at the lactation fetishists btw! Now how on earth do you know that?

i think you really should go to couples councelling,or get dh to go to councelling.he has issues is all i can say,and it just sounds like he's moved onto money being the problem instead of housework.he needs to get to the bottom of wtf is really bugging him.

my xp always used to go on about money 'problems' which were all my fault,so he said,and the reason he was stressed blah blah blah.i spent years worrying about money untill i was on my own and didnt have any,well,only basic benefits,and i realised that with the benefit system in place my children were never going to be homeless or starving,so there was no need to worry.

re the lactation porn thing...i just found some interesting stuff on the net when i was pregnant and on my own

hello Mossy, this is my first post to this thread so apologies if I've missed some critical stuff, I've read as much as I can!

Is it awful of me to say that I don't think your DH is being unreasonable to want to hold on to that ISA? I see your point of view, but I see his too. Three grand is a lot of money and as he says, it's the sort of thing that could come in very handy for emergencies - I don't know many people who could find that kind of money in a hurry. His concern with money doesn't seem to be a new thing - you mention it in your very first post. He's obviously a careful budgetter and that sort of personality gets very tetchy when they can't plan ahead.

As for the other points of contention you mention - the housework, the breastfeeding, the bonding with DS, conflicts with MIL: these all seem to me to have arisen from the fact that somewhere along the way, through what sounds like a difficult birth and first couple of months, you seem to both have lost the knack of communicating properly with each other. You've been with this guy for years and years, right? As sophable says, presumably he's not a complete arsehole. When I read your posts I get the impression of two people who seem determined to think the worst of each other all the time, rather than trying to see the other's point of view.

The thing about being pressurised to formula feed, for example - some people just don't understand how important it is to some mothers that they can breastfeed their children. They might not have appreciated beforehand how time-consuming and often, emotionally and physically demanding it can be, especially in the early weeks. So when the person they care about is having problems feeding, and they want to help, they suggest formula. I know that's the last thing in the world you wanted to hear at that stage, but some people just don't understand why that is.

As for your MIL - I get the impression she's given you a lot of support over the years. You say she's been like a mum to you. I think it's unfair of your husband to bring her into this conflict between the two of you about the housework - effectively he's set you against her (although you say there were tensions beforehand) when she hasn't done anything wrong. Except, possibly (because you don't know what she really said) express an opinion that you should do more around the house. I'm not even going to get into that, although some women from the older generation do tend to think of themselves as having been domestic superwomen, and judge everyone else by those standards. Doesn't make her an ogre though. Essentially, she sounds like a decent sort really, and the thing about new babies in the family is that the issue of their care/feeding etc does tend to set people against each other. This happened with me and my mum - older females find it almost impossible not to comment on how you care for your baby, unless they're exceptionally non-judgemental and understanding, which in my experience hardly anyone is.

I just think it would be a huge, huge shame for your relationship with your husband, and with your MIL - as a supportive family member, which you could really do with right now - to deteriorate any further. Couples counselling isn't going to be a winner if he's not for the idea, but you do both need to find some way of rediscovering what you used to have together.

As for your MIL - do you ever go and see her when it's just you and the wee yin? How much of this have you told her about? Do you think a very honest, open talk with her about the last few months might be helpful here?

Wot Lazyemma said, basically.

I can see DH has hurt you a lot. How would you feel if I said it also sounds as if DH is hurting a lot, too?

Your DH sounds very like mine - a man who likes his life to be in control. We had a pig of a time for the first 6 months of DS1 life. Looking back on it, it wasn't deliberate on his part: he was panicking that he had permanently lost the woman he loved, that he had no compensating relationship with his child, and that he didn't have the first idea how he was meant to cope with his new responsibilities.

Meanwhile I was panicking that I had to look after a small baby with no real knowledge of how to do it (how could be so exhausting?)and panicking that DH had turned from a loving fun husband into a Victorian monster.

A lot of the things your DH is doing ring bells with me, and if I'm honest, I do think keeping some of the money as an emergency fund might be sensible. If the money was given to both of you, perhaps you could split it 50:50 and each of you could decide what you're going to do with your share?

I think I'm trying to say, 'you've had a good relationship, you can have again' and believe me, much as I can see you love DS, the joy he gives you can be multiplied tenfold when you see him and DH starting to bond and do stuff - it's a fantastic feeling. Some of your last post smacks a bit of shutting DH out because he's hurt you and you want to punish him? Maybe there are other ways you could get him to put things right between you - ideally, what would you want him to do to show he is sorry?

Gizmo I suppose you are right, some of my last post was in the heat of the moment; I don't really intend to behave like that.

Lazyemma I agree with some of what you're saying, I suppose you are right about mil, I don't think she realised how hurtful her comments were.

Diva I do think we need some kind of counselling or someone outside of us to help us talk.

Last night ds was up from midnight til three refusing to sleep and I was at the end of my tether. In the end I did something I've never done before; I went and woke dh up.

And to be fair, he was not happy but he did take him so I could get some sleep.

I think the thing about the ISA annoyed me so much because it was meant to be for ds if anything, but yes you're right he is a careful planner these days.

Right better go ds is wailing...

What i would suggest is that next weekend you and mil go out together leaving dh with ds on his own. ask him if he can do a few jobs round the house too aswell as have supper sorted when you for when get home and then see what the result is when you get home. without mum to run to how will he cope?

I think you need counselling.You need someone impartial to help you communicate.At the moment your dh holds all the cards.He earns the money so that you are dependent on him.He also has the support of his mother which you don't(either yours or his)It is very difficult to get out and about alot when breastfeeding so you don't have a great deal of social contact either.Unfortunately in out society very little status is given to mothers at home,so that has been taken from you too.
I think you have done incredibly well to continue bfeeding.I may be mistaken,but I am under the impression that bfeeding releases feelgood hormones,so it wouldn't be a good idea for you(let alone your ds) for you to stop.
The fact that dh knows you have some outlet(counselling)may give him a bit of a wake-up call(and also mil might not be so complacent)

I like the suggestion that you and your mil spending some time together without Bertie or hubs. I have always been envious of your relationship because she seemed so supportive. It will give you the opportunity to talk things through (if you felt up to it) and give dh some responsibility to take care of his son for a short time.

HI Mossy. how are things going?

how's it going mossy?

i think if you go to your gp they can give you relate info but it will be a wait i imagine.

also.... just as an aside.... it's all very noble of your dh to confess he's not really a "baby" person... but has he given any thought to the fact that if he leaves most of the care to you - your ds may turn round and actually not want to "play cricket on the front lawn" with your dh

It's not going too badly. Dh is still Jekyll and Hyde and is up and down all the time. But I have decided now to take matters into my own hands. He might be miserable but I'm bloody well not going to be! So I'm making sure I go see friends, have got back in touch with some old friends (via facebook - sorry! ), keeping in touch with people, basically being as independant as I can be.

And just keeping smiling.

Dh thinks the solution is for me and him to spend more time together away from ds and with that in mind has arranged (without my knowledge) for mil to take ds one night a week. That's not one evening, btw, that's one whole night.

I was dead against it as it means shedloads of expressing which is a real pita, plus I don't like the idea of it generally, I know some people would, but I find it odd, but I decided to agree in the end because he sulked so much when I said no. (Bloody typical).

However I have turned it to my advantage, in that I've said I will agree to that if and only if he does what I think would help things, which is me, him and ds going out somewhere once a week, without mil, as a family unit.

He reluctantly agreed. So at least that's something.

We'll see how it goes.

good on you Mossy... and great that you were both able to compromise (even though it means both of you reluctantly agreeing to something )