Husband is low-level subtly abusive, but also really lovely

[TeamRafael]

I just don't know what to do. I'm tired and confused and my health is suffering.

My husband is so lovely a lot of the time. He is massively supportive of anything I want to do: encourages me to pursue hobbies, meet friends, study, etc. When I was having a hard time at work, he was happy for me to leave to set up my own business, even though it meant we suffered financially and both had to really tighten our belts - he didn't complain once and just kept encouraging me and championing me on. He listens when I'm upset and offers advice. He's always on my side. When I had surgery, he looked after me, did all the cooking, housework, changing my dressings, washed my hair, etc., hugged me when I cried.

We get on really well: we're like the best of friends. We enjoy holidays together, days out, love our pets. We laugh at the same jokes, make each other laugh. He's funny and he's generous. He likes my family and they like him.

But also, there's this:

He very subtly gaslights me. He (not so subtly) stonewalls me. He's dishonest. There's no intimacy anymore.

I've read this forum on and off for a few years, and I've posted several times under various user names. I've read the Lundy Bancroft book, so I recognise the above behaviours.

If I want to discuss an issue in our relationship or anything slightly uncomfortable, he gets irritable or refuses to listen or changes the subject or answers my question with an unrelated question if I bring something up he doesn't want to discuss. He walks out the room or waits for me to shut up in silence if I say something he doesn't want to talk about.

He likes to do things that he knows irritate me, then if I ask him not to do it, he'll trivialise it or say I've never mentioned it before, even if it's something I've brought up many times. He messes with my things when I'm not around: moves them, knocks them over, etc. Then when I ask him about it, he denies he's touched them. He questions my interpretation of events and tells me I've got things wrong or misunderstood, or I'm imagining things, and looks at me like I'm crazy. He makes out things I bring up are irrelevant or trivial, or he'll deny what I'm saying. His actions or his facial expressions always tell me a completely different story to what comes out of his mouth, e.g. I can see irritation flit across his face when I step out of my 'place' or call him out on his behaviour, before he straightens his face and tells me I'm wrong.

He lies about small things. Never big lies; just really weird small things, to the point where I don't really trust anything he says. E.g. stupid things like he'll say he has two baths a day where I know he has one bath a day. Or he'll say he never eats chocolate when I've seen him eating chocolate just the day before. Or he'll tell me that he's done x task round the house when he hasn't. He always likes to paint himself as this great guy, so he just fibs to make sure he fits that narrative.

I very much get the impression he considers himself to be more important than me and that his time is more important than mine. I honestly have hundreds of examples of his lies, gaslighting, stonewalling behaviour, but I'm conscious of how long this post is already.

This is all at the same time as him being lovely. So it's not like he's horrible for a few days and then lovely for a bit. He can gaslight or stonewall me one minute and be really nice the next minute, so I'm constantly wrong footed.

There's nothing to stop me leaving; I'm not stuck. We never had children, I've always worked, I've got my own pension, we've got savings and there's equity in the house. I could leave tomorrow and be a bit skint but ok. He's not financially abusive or anything (I look after all our money). But it's the lovely side of him that I can't get my head around. It's hard to leave that person. And also, because he denies everything, I'm always doubting myself and feeling like I'm crazy or too sensitive. It would almost be easier if he was out-and-out abusive and not so subtle about it. Then I'd have a definite reason to go. But the lovely side of him keeps stopping me. Also, I don't have many friends, my family aren't close, and I don't have children. I'd be alone.

When you say your family aren't close do you mean distance or relationship wise? As for the lack of friends I suspect that's somehow got something to do with him whether you realise it or not. I had a quick look through the thread and see you've been together 20 years?

However it's come about it is a toxic relationship, and it appears he's got no intention of co-operating.

Hi everyone. I promised I'd come back to this thread and give you all an update. I was very grateful for all your posts and I can't tell you how much it helped me to have my concerns validated.

I felt quite low after originally posting - I think because no one said, oh this is normal - no one is perfect, etc. It brought home to me that I've spent 20 years in a relationship with a not-nice man. And there was me thinking I was an intelligent, independent, strong, switched-on woman.

I've decided I definitely need to leave. That's not in doubt anymore. A few more things have happened - nothing major; it never is - things like deliberately giving me the wrong answers to questions, denying things I know are true, irritably flapping his hand at me to make me move out of his way. But they all add up to an ongoing pattern that is plain deliberate and designed to wrongfoot me, confuse me, mislead me.

Because I felt low, I've been dealing with that first. I've been doing meditation most days, have taken up yoga, and I've increased my exercise. I'm taking the dogs for longer walks and going to lovely parks and national trust places with them. I'm seeing friends more. I've joined an art class and a cooking class. I've cut down on drinking. I'm eating better. I've found a local CBT course and I'm waiting for a place on that. I feel much stronger and clearer than I have done in years.

I've started making mental lists on things I need to get prepared. Finances, files on our shared computer, my things, etc. I've bought a cloud storage system so I can copy files and photos to it. I'm simplifying our finances. I plan to systemically go through the house and sort through all my stuff. 20 years in this house and there's a lot of stuff! I plan to sort through my books, clothes, shoes, etc., take things to charity shops, get things in storage bags, and so on. All to be done quietly and slowly when I get an hour on my own in the house.

When I've got a good handle on the finances and so on, then I'll start seeing solicitors to see about the legal side of things. I want to be fully prepared and armed before he even gets a hint that I'm going. I think he will destroy me once he knows I'm determined to go. He won't like not being in control - control and power is everything to him and he can't bear being treated unfairly. And that's how he'll view this - that I'm being unfair. He would rather see us both without a single penny and tie us up in long legal battles than see me "win".

Finally, I've been thinking about what you all said about telling him why I'm leaving. And I've realised you're all right. Telling him he's abusive would be a massive mistake. Nothing infuriates my husband more than being criticised. He would destroy me. He's single minded when it comes to being "wronged" - he will do anything for revenge and to win. I've seen him set out to ruin a colleague's reputation when that colleague criticised his work. So I need to come up with something where no one gets blamed for the end of the marriage. I almost need to convince him it's his idea. That it's not his fault and it's not my fault, but these things happen, we've just naturally come to the end of the road, drifted apart, drifted into friendship, no intimacy - along those lines I think. Yes, once again I'll be soothing and placating him. But this time it's to try to mitigate the damage he could do to me.

That's a good plan. Might I suggest you put a time frame on each step? Or you may have the sensation of "preparing to leave" but nothing moving forwards.

I was reading this thread just now and what i noticed was he's acting like a father to your (adapted) child, in Transactional Analysis terms. It might be useful to read up on TA as it might help you identify how to be more Adult.

I left my similar-sounding DP about a year ago, and we get on a million times better apart. I'm so much happier all round. Sometimes lonely or sad, but not ground down, not angry or hurt or bitter. Good luck.

Thanks Bucking. I've got around six months in mind - I think realistically that's how long it will take me to get organised.

I'm glad you've got things clearer in your head and you've got a plan. Keep looking after yourself the way you are doing and I hope it all works out well.

He sounds like a classic narcissist OP. Acts such as

• Supporting you in setting up your own business
• Caring for you when you were ill

are classic "look at how lovely and selfless I am" acts, performed through desire for narcissistic supply, not through a true desire for teamwork or, actually, just observing the standard marriage vows.

Sorry I missed your update. I'm glad you have a plan in mind.

I have experienced this type of behaviour from someone purporting to be a supportive and caring friend. Yet also demeaning me, humiliating me subtly, snapping and showing contempt whilst being 'the best friend I've ever had'. Nice behaviour would make me think all was fine, now I can see she was only her lovely self when doing exactly what she wanted, and was not challenged in any way whatsoever. I only saw her at the weekends so thought I was coping, and also was so relieved when things went well and I wasn't blamed for stuff. I was on tenterhooks a lot of the time.

I gradually lost confidence, was walking on eggshells and witnessed her rage when I knew something she didn't, saw how she put on an act for other people to appear to be the most wonderful friend to them [whilst feeling resentful and complaining to me afterwards, but seeing them because they were 'useful to know'], constantly competing with others, always wanting to be the cleverest, the nicest... so her ego was fed. Also, the inability to talk as an adult through any conflict/issue...just straight into defensiveness, and a rage. Must not be questioned at all, and facts twisted so she was never at fault, ever.

Eventually I walked away and have been pretty upset. I've not put my finger on what it was all about, but had a lightbulb moment at the weekend and realised it is all an act...to impress, to feel top dog. An act which she cannot keep up. The mask has indeed slipped. The niceness cannot be kept up for longer than a matter of 2-3 hours before something gives...and there are little lies she tells, and the fat she does not commit to anyone emotionally. It has been quite bewildering.

Then I read this thread and it all makes absolute sense. I have been trampled on and had wondered where my life had gone wrong. As someone on another thread said...'I give you a meat pie, will you eat it? Of course. If I tell you there is a small piece of dogshit in it, will you eat it then?'...I don't think so.

I don't mean to sabotage your thread OP. I hope you do get away from the controlling and abusive behaviour and find yourself again, and find much happiness in the future. I'm sure your plan will work out well and you will find peace. Just came on to say this thread has helped me so much to make sense of my situation, which has puzzled me for a number of weeks now. So my thanks for posting and posing the question and thanks to the very informative and helpful posters who have given great advice and shared their knowledge. There is a certain personality type out there and it isn't necessarily always a partner or husband who is manipulating quietly away, undermining genuine people.

This sounds extremely similar to my husband .. except we've got kids in the equation xx

definitely get rid of him. he sounds horrific.

I've read through your thread and was glad to see that you have a plan in place. I think you are right to keep this quiet while you look to the future. You don't know what way he will be when he realises he has lost control and the mask slips.
Keep going with your self-care too. It will give you strength for when you need it.
I too recognise the passive aggressive behaviours, stonewalling and control. You would be better off with someone who says they dislike you and resent you to your face because these toxic behaviours drain you and make you question your sanity and will ultimately turn you into a shadow of yourself.
Good luck & mind yourself x

Yep I was with someone 20 years who was like this. I came to the conclusion that there are a lot of men who are emotional islands. Every attempt to reach them is met with passive aggressive resistance and accumulated resentment. They are angry, lonely, fearful and selfish. Everything is a competition, a failing, communication is a criticism that requires subversive tactics to deflect. A lot of pretence is required to hide their bitterness.

However, I don't think labelling him a sociopath or abuser is helpful, but he's clearly not capable of a level of connection or interaction you require (anyone requires) to build a happy healthy relationship with. An earlier poster said he hates you and you know what? - it's probably the only extreme comment I agree with here. But I would say he likely hates everyone really. And most of all - himself, but he will never go there with you, because his defence mechanisms are entrenched since childhood.

I would, if you, read more about passive aggression than general 'abuse' - and I would consider getting free. You will never ever succeed with this type of damaged man.

try this:
lynnenamka.com/anger-management/anger-management-articles/the-boomerang-relationship/

Hello OP. I've just read the first and last page of your thread. Well done for getting a plan together and looking after yourself so well. Look up "hidden narcissist" as that seems to describe your husband perfectly. You are exactly right to protect yourself as much as possible.

Keep posting here, and good luck

OP, the only explanation you need give him is this:

I am not happy in this relationship any more. It is over.

And repeat ad infinitum. He cannot argue with this. You don't need his permission or his agreement to separate.

Have a think about a 'cover story' if he notices you thinning out your books or whatever - KonMari or a good spring clean maybe.

@rosabug thank you for sharing that article. That’s my EventuallyTBXH to a T.

OP. I know how you feel. It never changes as the dynamic is all about them, and how they feel. They won’t change and they never will.

Good for you OP.
I always think, with these kinds of people, that humans can pretend to be nice for months, but can only pretend to be nasty for a few minutes.

Dear OP,
The being nice and then covertly abusive is cognitive dissonance specifically designed to upend your mental health.

I'm so glad you are leaving.

I'd say hes a covert narc.
So a word on leaving from my humble experience.
When he knows you are going he will CHANGE, he will begin a slur campaign, he will recruit people against you.
His mask will slip. He will wage a war which he will not be able to loose, because these people need 'supply'. And its all about how THEY look to the outside world. You will make some shocking discoveries.

Learn the art of GREY ROCK - do not get drawn into arguments, do not respond etc.

I'm only saying these things because I learnt them late on in my discoveries and divorce.

I wish you all the best for a happy, content, calm light filled life that is waiting round the corner. Get those ducks in a row, silently.....

@Abitsadbuthopeful
Is totally right. If he is a narcissist then be very wary indeed. They love being the victim. Do not get pulled into fighting him, because you will lose, and you’ll lose badly.
They cannot lose.

Well done OP on the focus you are giving to your mental and physical health in this time of preparing for a better life.

Spring is just around the corner (hopefully) so that might be a reason, if the thinning of things is noticed, for doing "a bit of a clear-out".

I'm sure you are doing some discreet research in the areas you want to move to. Just be careful to clear your browsing history after each session and/or use the private browsing option whenever you can. Check your phone settings to check your movements are not being tracked by him (apart
from the times you do) and change your passwords/pin code as necessary.

Just make sure, when you are ready to go, that the contract for your new home is signed and sealed so you can just drive away with the last few bits of your things.

I know you are gathering confidential documents. I'm sure you are ensuring online/cloud passwords are strong and that hard copy information is stored safely offsite (with backups wherever possible in a different location). Take a photocopy if your passport information page and store that securely in your cloud account in case the original is "lost".

I think you are being very strong and clear minded. Good luck for a better future. 🌹

I agree with the passport thing.

Hide it somewhere safe
: actually I bought a safe to hide my new one in after the NARC stole it from my handbag along with documentation of my parenting.

Oh yes you heard that right because now he's trying to steal the child too. The one he never took to school, or saw once a week etc, well yes that's the current prize asset he wants to make him look like dad of the year.

And for the record as he is recorded as saying ' I was accused of affairs, and I had a relationship during our marriage,' my understanding of that is ITS AN AFFAIR.

Anyways I digress - hide stuff, lock it in the car, take to a trustworthy friend.

I've been there and someday I'll write a book with my sister of the NARCs lies and behaviour which would make a good read, and potentially stop the same from happening to someone else.....

Oh forgot - get copies of all his bank statements, silently ......

Hi everyone and I'm sorry it's taken me a while to come back to answer your posts and to say thank you for your support.

Despite everything I said above, he's had a period of being lovely and i was enjoying being with him again. He was being kind and sweet and funny and pleasant. Almost to the point where I was thinking - yet again - I could stay with him.

Anyway, it's not lasted! Aren't I an idiot?

rosabug Thanks for that article. It sounds very familiar - I'm sure I've read it before, nodding along with how much I recognised. And yes I see your point about labels. I guess it doesn't matter what he is - narcissist, gaslighter, stonewaller, passive aggressive - and it's not up to me to armchair diagnose him - whatever the label is, regardless he's not a very nice person. He's moody, negative, irritable, lacks empathy, robotic. I clearly annoy him, unless I'm toeing the line, but even then I get it wrong sometimes and annoy him anyway. He takes no joy in anything, he rarely sees the funny side of life or in situations you or I might laugh at - he'd just be annoyed by it. He's the ultimate victim - he's always being wronged by someone.

Well done OP for being so clear-sighted and systematic. Re how to characterise it to him when you drop the bombshell - just 'I don't make you happy any more, I'm holding you back, I feel I have to set you free'?