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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband is low-level subtly abusive, but also really lovely

155 replies

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 14:21

I just don't know what to do. I'm tired and confused and my health is suffering.

My husband is so lovely a lot of the time. He is massively supportive of anything I want to do: encourages me to pursue hobbies, meet friends, study, etc. When I was having a hard time at work, he was happy for me to leave to set up my own business, even though it meant we suffered financially and both had to really tighten our belts - he didn't complain once and just kept encouraging me and championing me on. He listens when I'm upset and offers advice. He's always on my side. When I had surgery, he looked after me, did all the cooking, housework, changing my dressings, washed my hair, etc., hugged me when I cried.

We get on really well: we're like the best of friends. We enjoy holidays together, days out, love our pets. We laugh at the same jokes, make each other laugh. He's funny and he's generous. He likes my family and they like him.

But also, there's this:

He very subtly gaslights me. He (not so subtly) stonewalls me. He's dishonest. There's no intimacy anymore.

I've read this forum on and off for a few years, and I've posted several times under various user names. I've read the Lundy Bancroft book, so I recognise the above behaviours.

If I want to discuss an issue in our relationship or anything slightly uncomfortable, he gets irritable or refuses to listen or changes the subject or answers my question with an unrelated question if I bring something up he doesn't want to discuss. He walks out the room or waits for me to shut up in silence if I say something he doesn't want to talk about.

He likes to do things that he knows irritate me, then if I ask him not to do it, he'll trivialise it or say I've never mentioned it before, even if it's something I've brought up many times. He messes with my things when I'm not around: moves them, knocks them over, etc. Then when I ask him about it, he denies he's touched them. He questions my interpretation of events and tells me I've got things wrong or misunderstood, or I'm imagining things, and looks at me like I'm crazy. He makes out things I bring up are irrelevant or trivial, or he'll deny what I'm saying. His actions or his facial expressions always tell me a completely different story to what comes out of his mouth, e.g. I can see irritation flit across his face when I step out of my 'place' or call him out on his behaviour, before he straightens his face and tells me I'm wrong.

He lies about small things. Never big lies; just really weird small things, to the point where I don't really trust anything he says. E.g. stupid things like he'll say he has two baths a day where I know he has one bath a day. Or he'll say he never eats chocolate when I've seen him eating chocolate just the day before. Or he'll tell me that he's done x task round the house when he hasn't. He always likes to paint himself as this great guy, so he just fibs to make sure he fits that narrative.

I very much get the impression he considers himself to be more important than me and that his time is more important than mine. I honestly have hundreds of examples of his lies, gaslighting, stonewalling behaviour, but I'm conscious of how long this post is already.

This is all at the same time as him being lovely. So it's not like he's horrible for a few days and then lovely for a bit. He can gaslight or stonewall me one minute and be really nice the next minute, so I'm constantly wrong footed.

There's nothing to stop me leaving; I'm not stuck. We never had children, I've always worked, I've got my own pension, we've got savings and there's equity in the house. I could leave tomorrow and be a bit skint but ok. He's not financially abusive or anything (I look after all our money). But it's the lovely side of him that I can't get my head around. It's hard to leave that person. And also, because he denies everything, I'm always doubting myself and feeling like I'm crazy or too sensitive. It would almost be easier if he was out-and-out abusive and not so subtle about it. Then I'd have a definite reason to go. But the lovely side of him keeps stopping me. Also, I don't have many friends, my family aren't close, and I don't have children. I'd be alone.

OP posts:
Iflyaway · 14/01/2019 18:06

And by the way, stonewalling and gaslighting only exist on Mumsnet.

Aquilla, please watch the film Gaslight with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman - black & white, on Youtube last time I checked, in a few parts- from the 30's or so which is what gave the term its name.

before you go off spouting shite

Onemansoapopera · 14/01/2019 18:06

Complicated this and I'd be interested in his view of the relationship.

I don't think you're being heavily abused, I think even really lovely people can and do behave badly. I think though, your relationship has run its course. You are not intimate partners, any negativity ceases all communication and I don't think either of you look like you want to work on that. I don't think forgetting things is always purposeful gaslighting. I don't think refusing to discuss things is always purposeful stonewalling. We are far, far too quick to label on 50% of the story (baring in mind that 50% also says he's a thoroughly good guy too).

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:26

Passive aggressive - spends his life with suppressed anger - and the fake Mr NIce Guy act - he can’t do emotional intimacy and holds total contempt for you. He can’t communicate assertively so it runs into internalised anger which he expresses non verbally in little acts of terrorism - not one act on its own enough to really call it without the risk of sounding like a crazy woman (he knows this) but when you add them all up including the withholding, lies, sabotage it leaves you angry, baffled, drained and depressed. Did he have an overbearing mother?

Yes to all of these; I recognise all of this Sad And yes, his parents were emotionally abusive.

OP posts:
TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:27

Just one last question have you ever thought something has been moved etc then to find out you were wrong or are you always right in these situations?

No, I've never been wrong

OP posts:
TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:30

how long since no intimacy if you don’t mind me asking? Also how old are you

He stopped wanting sex about 10 years ago. I don't know why; he would never tell me. This subject was always an example of where he'd shut me down or get irritable or go silent until I shut up. We don't kiss or hold hands. We occasionally hug but that's when I'm upset generally, not for affection.

We're both 47.

OP posts:
TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:34

He may well suffer with some sort of personality disorder.

Yes I think he does. I think he has obsessive compulsive personality disorder, but of course I'm no doctor and that's an armchair diagnosis. Here's the symptoms from a psychology website. I recognise all of these in my husband:

^The main features of Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) is a preoccupation with orderliness, perfectionism (around anything from cleanliness to order) at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency, regardless of the impact on others.

Individuals with OCPD attempt to maintain control with painstaking attention to rules, trivial details, lists and procedures to the extent that the major point of the activity is often lost, often becoming inflexible. They become oblivious to the fact that other people will often become annoyed at the extent they perform tasks and the delays caused, often believing the other person may be wrong for not working to the same perceived standard.^

OP posts:
oiiiiiii · 14/01/2019 18:35

You've not had sex in 10 years? You have your reason right there to end the marriage. Who cares if he is abusive or not if that is already in play?? Even if he were a prince among men I wouldn't put up with that.

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:36

AcrossthePond55 thank you, that's really good advice.

OP posts:
TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 18:39

RhubarbTea thank you.

OP posts:
IamIwas · 14/01/2019 18:41

Now you have told us more I think he is horrible and not lovely at all and you know the truth.

TatianaLarina · 14/01/2019 18:43

You don’t have to tell him you think he’s abusive as a reason for leaving. You’re not happy, you find him too difficult to live with and you’ve had enough. And you don’t want to do it any more.

That’s all he really needs to know.

another20 · 14/01/2019 18:54

He sounds really oppressive.

You don’t need to try to psycho-analayse him or even try to understand him (more or less impossible with his slippery gas-lighting ways to pin him down) - BUT you do need to pay attention to how YOU feel - that is all that matters - this relationship doesn’t make you happy. That is enough to move on - even though you have a very long list of legit reasons.

Sounds like a process of slow, subtle attrition where he has ground you down. The minute you see it for what it is and he is gone or you leave - that nagging, cloying depression will lift.

Sounds like he has slowly sucked the joy out of your life.

DarkStorm · 14/01/2019 19:00

OP your first post was scary to read. So are the subsequent ones tbh. He’s messing with your head. This is not a normal healthy relationship. His behaviour towards you is very disturbing.

You will end up a confused shell of yourself if you stay with him. You deserve SO much better.

Imagine your family member or friend was with someone like him. What advice would you give?

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 19:04

Sounds like he has slowly sucked the joy out of your life.

Yes I suppose he has really.

You don’t need to try to psycho-analayse him or even try to understand him (more or less impossible with his slippery gas-lighting ways to pin him down) - BUT you do need to pay attention to how YOU feel - that is all that matters

Ok thanks, this makes sense. I think it's time to get him out of my head, concentrate on my own mental health and well-being. Eat well, exercise, see friends. And probably think about getting my ducks in a row, as it were.

OP posts:
Closetbeanmuncher · 14/01/2019 19:20

Hes a control freak who operates under the radar to avoid being called out, or appearing like the bad guy....As long as you stick to your role of the little woman hes "lovely". This man is a different different person to the one he presents.... I can pretty much guarantee that.

Alarm bells for me in afraid.....

MakeItAmazing · 14/01/2019 19:28

As per your 17:29 post you don't need a reason to leave him, you don't need his permission and you don't have to tell him you're going. You've got plenty of reasons, the solicitor will tell him and you can get out when he's at work.

Lottapianos · 14/01/2019 19:30

'I think it's time to get him out of my head, concentrate on my own mental health and well-being. Eat well, exercise, see friends. And probably think about getting my ducks in a row, as it were.'

Very good plan OP. And I would strongly suggest seeing a therapist, by yourself, if you are interested. I think professional support would be invaluable to you at this stage

Dear god OP, you're a young woman. You have LOADS of life still to live. Don't spend the rest of your days with this awful oppressive man

fuckwitseverywhere · 14/01/2019 19:31

You're far too young to live like this. You have all of your life ahead of you.
I definitely think he has some sort of personality disorder but that's not your problem.

Make your plan. Have everything lined up.
Do you have somewhere to go? Is it a joint house? What about finances? Do you have your own money?

Please don't say anything to him til you have seen a solicitor.

As for what to say, wait until the last minute and say. "It's over. I don't love you. I'm leaving"
You don't have to say any more than that. If you're going to have to fight for what's rightfully yours then engage a SHL first.

Don't live in the same house as him once you e told him. It won't be worth the abuse, hassle etc.

And once you tell him, answer every question with the 3 sentences above.

MoneyHoney · 14/01/2019 19:41

@another20
Possibly the most concise explanation of my marriage ever.

I am seven months free and a new woman! I'm not living scared of that silent seething rage... it's bliss

littleleeleanne · 14/01/2019 19:46

Could have written this myself - once I had come to the realisation of what I was going through it took me 8 months to get out. It was the best thing I ever did.
I'd always questioned the little 'lies' but it was the day he explained something to someone as a completely different story and I was there so knew that it was a complete lie Confused

Scott72 · 14/01/2019 19:53

"I also have the bizzare combination of a ‘new man/feminist’ who likes to watch lesbian porn 4 or5 times a week the minute I am out the door (doesn’t know yet that I know)"

Are you secretly monitoring his internet browsing with spyware? That seems worse to me than watching lesbian porn 4 or 5 times a week.

Iflyaway · 14/01/2019 20:00

I have a relate appointment this week and I'm hoping having someone else there will help him understand that I am serious and I don't want this anymore. I am terrified and don't know what's going to happen next, but at least it's a start.

AmIcrazyornot

Your name says it all.

Please do not do therapy with him there.
Find one for yourself.

Therapists are no different to you or me. I've had crap ones who knew less about real life than me

He will have her/him wrapped around his little finger too.

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 20:32

Do you have somewhere to go? Is it a joint house? What about finances? Do you have your own money?

No, nowhere to go, but that's easy enough - I could get into an Airbnb or something for a bit until I get sorted.

It's a joint house, yes. And we do have joint finances but I work and have savings in my own name & pension. There's equity in the house as well. I wouldn't want to stay there - I imagine he would want to though.

OP posts:
Shodan · 14/01/2019 20:37

To echo pps - if (and I really, sincerely hope you do) you do decide to leave him, there is absolutely no reason or need to tell him the real reasons why. There would be no point- he'd just tell you you're wrong!

Pick an excuse and stick to it- you don't love him any more/it isn't working for you any more/you're running off to open a bar in Outer Mongolia- whatever you like.

It's what I did. It took quite a few repetitions but it worked, and without more games.

katekat383 · 14/01/2019 20:40

You do wonder who you are sometimes, OP? That is so sad. You are you and a decent person. Leave that horrible person.