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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband is low-level subtly abusive, but also really lovely

155 replies

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 14:21

I just don't know what to do. I'm tired and confused and my health is suffering.

My husband is so lovely a lot of the time. He is massively supportive of anything I want to do: encourages me to pursue hobbies, meet friends, study, etc. When I was having a hard time at work, he was happy for me to leave to set up my own business, even though it meant we suffered financially and both had to really tighten our belts - he didn't complain once and just kept encouraging me and championing me on. He listens when I'm upset and offers advice. He's always on my side. When I had surgery, he looked after me, did all the cooking, housework, changing my dressings, washed my hair, etc., hugged me when I cried.

We get on really well: we're like the best of friends. We enjoy holidays together, days out, love our pets. We laugh at the same jokes, make each other laugh. He's funny and he's generous. He likes my family and they like him.

But also, there's this:

He very subtly gaslights me. He (not so subtly) stonewalls me. He's dishonest. There's no intimacy anymore.

I've read this forum on and off for a few years, and I've posted several times under various user names. I've read the Lundy Bancroft book, so I recognise the above behaviours.

If I want to discuss an issue in our relationship or anything slightly uncomfortable, he gets irritable or refuses to listen or changes the subject or answers my question with an unrelated question if I bring something up he doesn't want to discuss. He walks out the room or waits for me to shut up in silence if I say something he doesn't want to talk about.

He likes to do things that he knows irritate me, then if I ask him not to do it, he'll trivialise it or say I've never mentioned it before, even if it's something I've brought up many times. He messes with my things when I'm not around: moves them, knocks them over, etc. Then when I ask him about it, he denies he's touched them. He questions my interpretation of events and tells me I've got things wrong or misunderstood, or I'm imagining things, and looks at me like I'm crazy. He makes out things I bring up are irrelevant or trivial, or he'll deny what I'm saying. His actions or his facial expressions always tell me a completely different story to what comes out of his mouth, e.g. I can see irritation flit across his face when I step out of my 'place' or call him out on his behaviour, before he straightens his face and tells me I'm wrong.

He lies about small things. Never big lies; just really weird small things, to the point where I don't really trust anything he says. E.g. stupid things like he'll say he has two baths a day where I know he has one bath a day. Or he'll say he never eats chocolate when I've seen him eating chocolate just the day before. Or he'll tell me that he's done x task round the house when he hasn't. He always likes to paint himself as this great guy, so he just fibs to make sure he fits that narrative.

I very much get the impression he considers himself to be more important than me and that his time is more important than mine. I honestly have hundreds of examples of his lies, gaslighting, stonewalling behaviour, but I'm conscious of how long this post is already.

This is all at the same time as him being lovely. So it's not like he's horrible for a few days and then lovely for a bit. He can gaslight or stonewall me one minute and be really nice the next minute, so I'm constantly wrong footed.

There's nothing to stop me leaving; I'm not stuck. We never had children, I've always worked, I've got my own pension, we've got savings and there's equity in the house. I could leave tomorrow and be a bit skint but ok. He's not financially abusive or anything (I look after all our money). But it's the lovely side of him that I can't get my head around. It's hard to leave that person. And also, because he denies everything, I'm always doubting myself and feeling like I'm crazy or too sensitive. It would almost be easier if he was out-and-out abusive and not so subtle about it. Then I'd have a definite reason to go. But the lovely side of him keeps stopping me. Also, I don't have many friends, my family aren't close, and I don't have children. I'd be alone.

OP posts:
itbemay · 14/01/2019 16:22

Don't want to read and run but Flowers

Dhalandchips · 14/01/2019 16:24

I was smitten, besotted, bowled over, he was my knight in shining armour! It's baffling looking back

BettyDuMonde · 14/01/2019 16:26

You are obviously well-informed but just in case you haven’t already heard of it, I want to point you at the freedom project:

www.freedomproject.org

They do courses but you can read all the material online for about a tenner - they look at lots of different types of abusive behaviour, including the stuff you describe:

www.freedomproject.org

BettyDuMonde · 14/01/2019 16:28

Sorry - wrong link 😬

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Shodan · 14/01/2019 16:30

Some parts of your post resonate with me OP.

My XH was lovely, most of the time- but I came to realise that he was only like that when I was challenging him, or his view of himself (the Most Important One).

So for example- on our way back from a weekend away, he'd plugged into the inflight entertainment. About a minute or so in, I tapped his arm to share something with him. He turned and (and this is the only word I can think of for what he did) snarled at me. His whole face was red and angry. I nearly cried.

He always claimed to have forgotten things we agreed on, or tried to tell me that I was misremembering.

I was never allowed to ask him to forgo a game of golf, because he 'couldn't let the others down'.

Anyway. All that's by the by now, because I realised in the end that he would never change, and for me, the lovely bits didn't outweigh the nasty bits. The nasty bits were the real him- he had no interest in changing, and yours won't either.

Do yourself a favour and ditch this one. There are lots of men out there who are lovely through and through, and that's what you deserve.

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 16:32

Thank you BettyDuMonde.

Maybe it's not as low level as I thought from reading the responses to this thread Sad

OP posts:
GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 14/01/2019 16:33

This phrase jumped out at me:

I do wonder who I am sometimes, because he makes me so caught up in him.

This speaks volumes. You've had to change who you are to become what you think he wants you to be. I think he's actually gaslighting you a lot more than you realise.

You're obviously an intelligent woman. So am I. I woke up after being trapped in what I now know was abusive relationship one morning and just didn't know who I was anymore. He'd changed and trampled on every bit of my personality that he claimed he'd been attracted to in the first place. That was my cue to leave.

I'm so glad I did.

It would almost be easier if he was out-and-out abusive and not so subtle about it. Then I'd have a definite reason to go.

You do have a definite reason to go!

But the lovely side of him keeps stopping me.

That's why he keeps reeling out the lovely behaviour.

You also mentioned being with him during retirement. Shudder. There would be no escape!

waywardfruit · 14/01/2019 16:35

He is very self-centred, and is as happy as Larry as long as everything is as he likes it and he is doing whatever he wants. Live is good. But the minute anything happens to rock his little boat (like you having a slightly different opinion, or he has to make an effort to do something for you), the other side of his personality comes out.

You can be two very different people at the same time - well thats what it looks like to me anyway.

TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 16:37

About a minute or so in, I tapped his arm to share something with him. He turned and (and this is the only word I can think of for what he did) snarled at me. His whole face was red and angry.

Oh gosh Shodan my husband will do this too. Maybe not a snarl but he will look irritable and sigh to let me know I've annoyed him. I've learnt when not to disrupt him because his irritation/sighing is unpleasant, put it that way.

He always claimed to have forgotten things we agreed on

God yes, this too. He makes me remind him over and over again of things that I've already told him, sometimes 3, 4 or 5 times. "What time are we going out?" "What day are we going to x?" etc. All. The. Time.

OP posts:
TeamRafael · 14/01/2019 16:41

He'd changed and trampled on every bit of my personality that he claimed he'd been attracted to in the first place.

This resonates a lot. He fell in love with me because I was positive, happy, kind - he liked that I saw the good in situations and people. But I'm not that person anymore. I've got anxiety and I had a depression diagnosis 2 years ago.

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 14/01/2019 16:44

I'm tired and confused and my health is suffering
This is what you need to focus on.
Your health is the most important thing and this man is doing you no good at all.
His good points sound great but his bad points....!!! NOT OK!
This will be the rest of your life if you don't do something to help yourself.
You know what you need to do.
So get a plan in place to do it!

If you been on here for a while then you'll know about the 'cycle of abuse'
Time to get off of that round about!

MawkishTwaddle · 14/01/2019 16:46

He sounds like my XH. You'll feel so much happier if you leave him.

Aquilla · 14/01/2019 16:51

So basically, you want a perfect human being. You do realise there's no such thing? And by the way, stonewalling and gaslighting only exist on Mumsnet.

oiiiiiii · 14/01/2019 16:52

Abusive and lovely is an oxymoron. Sorry...

This is such a dangerous thing to say. MOST abusive people are absolutely lovely, often most of the time. "Lovely" behaviour is part of the abusive cycle.

You may mean that someone who is abusive shouldn't be described as "lovely" but be careful how you say it. Because people take it the wrong way and will have a wobble and think "well he is mostly lovely, and if abusive and lovely can't go together, then I guess he's not abusive"

OP, you H sounds to me like the kind of person who has decided that he will have his way, no matter what.

Sometimes he gets his way by being lovely; but he has learned over time that in certain situations, he needs to turn on the proper black magic manipulation in order to shut you up and force your compliance.

Many people live their lives with someone like this and barely notice what they are like.

However ime once you realise this type of pattern in someone's behaviour - it's extremely difficult to maintain feelings of love for them. Because everything has been thrown into sharp relief all of a sudden. Every memory you think back and go, What were you really doing? I experienced it as love / normal / etc. but what was really going on? And it does become boring, repetitive. Who wants to play the same game for decades?

I disagree that you should assess the relationship in terms of whether you think you'd be happier with someone else. I think you need to weigh your mental health. It won't last in a situation like this. You'll be eroded. I'd access some therapy as a first step x

peekyboo · 14/01/2019 16:53

It sounds like he's imitating what a nice human make looks like, all the time hiding the beast underneath.

Humans smile and are nice, I shall smile and be nice. Human husbands support their wives, I will support her.

That's why his true reactions are the horrible ones because those are his natural ones.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 14/01/2019 16:53

@Acquila really helpful comment there.

MawkishTwaddle · 14/01/2019 16:54

Aquilla you've clearly never met my XH.

Actually...are you my XH?

IamIwas · 14/01/2019 16:54

I find this confusing as my exh was horrible all the time and I could never describe him as lovely. Are you sure he is lovely? You say he is supportive when you are upset yet you are also afraid to say certain things to him. That doesn’t add up to me. Is he a genuine person?

userschmoozer · 14/01/2019 16:57

Lovely and nice and abusive are all controlling behaviours, not character traits.

He picked you because he knew he could manipulate you. ''he liked that I saw the good in situations and people'' - so you are under pressure to always look for the good in him, because thats the behaviour he rewards with love.

If he loves you why is it only when you are compliant? Why doesn't he credit you with the things he repeats to other people to make himself look good?

eddielizzard · 14/01/2019 16:58

It sounds exhausting and wearing. How would you feel about an ultimatum? Either stop the gas lighting and lying or I'm outta here?

Thing is you don't get the lovely guy without the arsehole it seems. You're holding out hope that the arsehole will just disappear and you'll be left with lovely guy. But what if lovely guy disappears and you're left with arsehole? What if balance tips to 70% arse, 30% nice? Where is your boundary? Maybe it should be 1% arse (no-one's perfect) and 99% nice...

SevenStones · 14/01/2019 17:06

Your first post could describe my ex husband. He too was "lovely" and it was those bits that kept me hooked for so long.

However, by the end I was a shadow of my old self.

One thing I've realised over time is that those "lovely" bits were deliberate behaviour - they were an act. It's one of the things that really messed with my head. I just couldn't understand how someone so "lovely" could be doing the mentally/emotionally abusive things too.

By the way, are you sure he's as supportive as you think he is? Mine seemed to be too, but then very subtly sabotaged absolutely every single thing I decided to do with my life.

Never mind he'd say, you know you're not very good at/struggle with/etc [whatever], let me give you a big cuddle (for instance).

So, he appeared supportive but it was all designed to further undermine my confidence and make me more unsure of yourself.

When I read your post I didn't think your husband was lovely at all, I shivered at his cleverness.

user1479305498 · 14/01/2019 17:08

Ah yes, the rubbish bin for all life’s ills, that’s familiar!! It’s like victor medrew in their mid 50s

Adora10 · 14/01/2019 17:10

Not normal, in fact he sounds positively dangerous, he is not lovely, he's an abusive horrible man, the lovely side is a fake persona to ensure you hang around as he's not all bad, all the time.

He doesn't sounds the least bit lovely, he sounds awful.

PositivelyPERF · 14/01/2019 17:11

So basically, you want a perfect human being. You do realise there's no such thing? And by the way, stonewalling and gaslighting only exist on Mumsnet

Wow, Aquilla, you either set the bar very very low, for what you expect from a relationship or you behave in the same way. Which is it?

I’ve a scary feeling I already know the answer

Knittink · 14/01/2019 17:12

Basically he has trained you to fear provoking his disapproval and to seek his approval (because the latter results in him being 'lovely' to you). You could carry on obeying your training and hope to mostly be rewarded by him deigning to bestow his 'lovely' side on you. Or... you could leave him and recover your sense of self. You deserve better, OP. Flowers