He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

A friend of mine married one of these. She had a kid with him and then wisely divorced him. He's in his late 40s still pinging around.

The whole this is massively convenient for him isn’t it.

He must have seen this coming. Even you knew his supervisor wasn’t happy. He had plenty of warning and opportunity to turn it around, but no, he let it go on to an official warning.

Watch out for him trying to get you to help, or possibly blaming you.

It’s actually a good time to call it a day.

You could always say that his phd is important and he shouldn’t have any distractions so ending the relationship will help him concentrate 100% on him and getting his phd.

Wish him luck and move on.

The fact he doesn't get up until 3pm would have made me so ANGRY I would have lost respect for him for this alone!

So he hasn't been working on his thesis. Has he got a family elsewhere where he's sending the money? Has he got a gambling or gaming problem?

You need to use reverse psychology to stop him playing on your heart strings.

You need to say to him" I realise
we are at different stages of our lives and our relationship isn't working for me nor for you"
You don't need to explain anymore but say it's best for both of you to have space.

Repeat you need space. Get him to move his stuff out from your place. Get a lodger if you need to but you must start the process of detachment.

Do not offer solutions, you have done your best for him but actually if he hasn't pulled his weight academically with your help by now then you aren't even good for him and it could be said you are enabling his lazy, entitled and cushy lifestyle.

It will be like ripping off a plaster op but you need to start letting go emotionally and then detaching physically will be a natural outcome.

Give yourself a detaching schedule and final detached deadline and treat it as a work project.

You are good at your job so use your many talents in your private life too to get you out of this dead end of a partnership.

What does he do all day?

You have the perfect storm to actually break up with him now. He needs to focus In these 6 weeks on his PhD so you are stepping away to give him that freedom. No big heart to hearts this week - he needs to knuckle down. He has his mum and he should use her as his crutch now.
And whatever you do - don't give false hopes. You want a family - he wants his PhD and you have decided that they are incompatible... x

Maybe he's just been hanging around in a safety net for a few years, and needs that safety net to be taken away so that he can get his feet on the ground and start taking action himself. Sometimes a crisis can be the moment when your life turns around. You are enabling him to put off growing up.

he's been put on academic probation at his university. So he has like 6 weeks or something to turn his progress around or he's out. Anyway, he then thanked me for being wonderful, apologised for being such a failure and said he's so grateful for all my support and that I mean everything to him and I'm the only good thing in his life

That's a huge thing to put on you and very unfair. The timing is suspicious because I bet this has been brewing for a while - he chooses to tell you now because he's got wind of something. Whether you've said something directly or not or are overtly aware of it, he's picked up on some small signals you've sent out. Or yes, he's aware of this thread.

And I think Ravenmum has a point. If you split now it maybe the thing he needs to stand up for himself. Do it gently and honestly, of course, for your own sake as much as his. But don't let him reel you in.

The fact that one of his peers works 30 hours a week, has 2 young children and is way ahead of him in her studies tells you everything you need to know about him.

Exactly. He’s a wasteman, as the kids say.

OP, there’s literally nothing about this guy that makes him a suitable partner at this point in your life when you want to settle down and have kids and need to do it ASAP.

Definitely end it, start looking into having a family on your own, you might get lucky and be able to have a child or adopt if you start now. You could meet the man of your dreams at any point during the rest of your life but if you want a family you need to prioritise that straight away.

It seems heartless to dump him now and sent him spiralling more into the depths of despair.

He doesn’t seem too fussed about you spiralling into the depths of despair when he tells you he doesn’t want a child with you any time soon while knowing full well you’re in the last of your fertile years, does he?

You’re too good for this, and for him OP.

This is meant kindly op. I bet at some point he will blame you for his academic failings. So preempt that and end this relationship. To drag things on would be unfair to both of you.

I once read the phrase: the most important thing you can do for your children is choose a good father

You would be letting down any kids you might have with this man by procreating with an adult baby. It’s different having a child alone when you’re not saddling them with a rubbish parent. It can affect people for a lifetime having shit parents and this guy has done nothing to indicate he’d make a decent father. To be fair to him he probably knows that too hence not wanting them! But it does mean you need to walk away if you want kids.

This man is the architect of his own demise and I fully agree with VietnameseCrispyFish's recent posts. I would just add to that "and look at his parents too" very closely.

As Ruddygreattiger2016 wrote earlier:-

"Never let yourself get sidetracked for some blokes' failings and bad life choices, concentrate on YOU".

Put your own self first now Jess, this man has done very well out of you to date. He really does think you are a mug and I think if you were to dump him he'd soon find some other woman to come in and otherwise try and rescue and or save him from his own history of poor decision making and not wanting to be an adult (probably in part also due to his own mother).

Your loyalties / sympathies are really misplaced and your “kindness” - over responsibility and co-dependency - has back fired on both of you.

I would be kicking the butt of my 12 year old if they were behaving this irresponsibably - not indulging them which enables them to continue. I doubt you were brought up to be this workshy and entitled.

You should not have sympathy for the mess he has got himself into - in the real world there are consequences - like his uni putting him on probation and when that fails pulling the plug. This is what you should be doing - but ignore the probation bit. This is how people change and grow - by dealing with issues THEMSELVES not some enabling co-dep behaviour of “there, there I will fix it for you”.

There is nothing to “chat” about here. He will just dial up the charm, pity, false promises......and you will be back to square one in no time. He doesn’t deserve any more if your emotional energy. He is a fraud who has targeted your good nature.

You need decisive action to cut and run with this one. No deep discussions for him to tangle you up in. Just “we have different values and future plans - not compatible - bye” rinse and repeat - nothing further to add. Let his other “Mum” - who created this arrogant laughable man child swoop in now to dry is crocodile tears.

my understanding of the visa issue (although I don't know for sure) is that if he gets kicked out of the university he gets kicked out of the country, but I'm not 100% sure. Which makes our relationship even more vulnerable even if I were willing to give it a go. If he completes the PhD he'll have leave to remain I think as it takes 10 years and he's been here for 7

Or he could get you pregnant and apply for indefinite leave to remain.

Be very careful, he might just have that up his sleeve and then you would never be rid of him

I would dump this man in a heartbeat OP, he is literally draining the lif out of you Lady

Have you come to a decision?

You are not to blame for wasting his time when he should be studying. You are very quick to take the blame for actions that are entirely his responsibility.
He's spending all day every day (allegedly) for the past 5 years doing a PHd but in reality has been doing fuck all. Or else he's completely naive about his academic abilities from the start.
Why are they on his case now? He still has 2 years to go.
So he's done 3 years of the PHD? This can't be the first he's heard of his progress or lack of it. He must have hidden that too.
Has he done absolutely nothing at all? He must have done close to nothing, because the colleges aren't that quick to get rid of those large international students who pay massive fees.

I had a boyfriend like that. He resented my successful career and cheated on me. I was seriously depressed for two years after I gathered the strength to dump him.

Years later I met my now DH, who was a grown up with a great job and a paid off house.

SO MUCH BETTER.

I've financed boyfriends in the past. My only advice is: don't do it. Especially if you want to have children. Don't do this to yourself (and them). Find someone who is a hard worker like yourself and who also wants to have a big family.

Or he could get you pregnant and apply for indefinite leave to remain.

You can't do that just because you got someone pregnant. You have to be married and even then there's an initial spouse visa. There are also some pretty stringent requirements and the visa is costly.

I ended things tonight. I went with your approach @another20 and said that we clearly want different things in the future and that our values don't match up. He was very upset but he said he understood and that he realises he messed up and that he's going to work hard on turning around his academic progress. Think he saw this coming. I suspect if he can turn things around, he might be back in touch then (I feel like he wanted to prove to me he's not a total fuckup).

He didn't try to blame me, thankfully. I realise I do take over-responsiblity for others behaviour and I'm often too 'kind' and 'forgiving' in a way that enables bad behaviour and irresponsibility to continue. I never really realised til I read all your comments that I was making things worse for him by providing support when what he maybe needed was a harsh approach so he'd have to get his shit together himself. Will try to learn from this in future.

Thanks everyone for the comments and guidance. This really resonated with me @VietnameseCrispyFish I once read the phrase: the most important thing you can do for your children is choose a good father

I'm going to focus on myself for a bit and take a little weekend break with some friends. Trying not to feel guilty as I know I'm prone to it and that's part of the destructive cycle. I will miss him, because he did have lots of good qualities as well, and I don't think he's a bad person deep down. I always feel more like myself when I'm single though, so I'm quite looking forward to it. Then I'm going to see about going it alone to have a child. I know that will be really tough, but I think I'm strong enough to manage. And who knows in the meantime I may meet someone amazing, you never know.

OP be kind to yourself and I do think you have made the right decision, albeit not an easy one.

I used to think it wouldn’t matter who paid bills as long as you love each other and work together. Part of me still thinks so, but the ‘working as a team’ part matters a lot.

I got married to a man thinking it would be ok although he was a financial disaster. I imagined if we had a child and I still needed to be the main breadwinner he would pick up the slack with house and child. Reality bit. I ended up the first year of my daughters life doing all the childcare and paying all the bills. We split just before my daughter turned 1 and he moved on pretty quick to be with another woman who (surprise!) pays the bills.

I should have added. Well done, brave decision and being a single mum can be great! Not the dream but pretty awesome.

Oh, OP, that must have been hard, and you were very brave, but it is very strong to have put your own future first.

If course it will be sad, and you wouldn’t have spent 2 years with him if he wasn’t lovely in many ways.

A weekend away, time with friends sounds great.