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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He's broke - does it matter?

327 replies

123Jess · 14/01/2019 01:47

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

OP posts:
CosmicComet · 14/01/2019 17:53

For an academic career you have to be flexible in terms of location and move around a lot. Not conducive to you developing your career too I’m afraid. And that’s if he can even get a permanent post. It’s incredibly competitive nowadays and new career entrants are competing with people with 10 years experience who’ve been made redundant, and people from all over the world who are willing to relocate. The odds are he won’t have any long term prospects and you’ll be the breadwinner. It depends if you’re ok with that?

another20 · 14/01/2019 17:53

Don’t meet the mother. Put that boundary down right now - it will only complicate things.
As Atilla said - he was your “project - a fixer upper” - maybe a bit over responsible of you (possibly the same with your parents?) - might want to take a look at co-dependency so that you raise your boundaries and don’t end up in a similar situation again?

ChiaraRimini · 14/01/2019 17:55

Postdocs in STEMM subjects are hard enough to come by but it's going to be far harder to get one in legal philosophy.

123Jess · 14/01/2019 18:10

Thank you @another20, I will read about co-dependency. I'm generally quite independent and have been comfortable being single. I actually really like being single, I just got concerned about fertility. I guess I've invested a lot in this relationship so I didn't want to suddenly decide to abandon it rashly. And he has made me very happy in the past. My parents have been dependent on me in a lot of ways, but this has been something that makes me happy to help them rather than causing me anxiety. I don't resent helping them at all, as they did their best for me growing up and despite not having much money really tried to make sure I had a good education and could take advantage of opportunities (my parents fought hard to get me into a better state school rather than the extremely shitty one in our poor neighbourhood). I think we have a healthy relationship, despite the fact that I help them financially. My relationship with my partner is now getting into unhealthy territory I think, hence my posts! I'm not scared of being single, I just didn't want to give up too easily if he could turn things around (now accepting that this is unlikely).
Interesting what you say about not meeting his mother too - agree that could cause some complications in the thought process!
Also @CosmicComet I'm not prepared to move around. This might sound inflexible but I feel settled where I live now and I would also want children to have a permanent home. I'm also close to my parents, which is important to me, so that they can be involved grandparents as well.
@BagelGoesWalking - this has already started to happen. i feel like i organise everything now (whereas when we first got togehter he organised our dates and our travel). Now I seem to just tell him where to show up!

OP posts:
CosmicComet · 14/01/2019 18:44

I'm not prepared to move around
Then why would you even consider a long term relationship with an academic?

PolkaDoting · 14/01/2019 18:53

I had a friend who’s boyfriend thought she had loads of time for kids ( she was 35) because you hear of lots of celebrities having kids when they’re older. She sat him down and explained about fertility and he listened and they started trying for a baby.

123Jess · 14/01/2019 19:00

@CosmicComet I guess there are a lot of factors, like how far away the job was, how good a job it was, whether it's permanent. I'd probably be willing to move within reason, but not half way across the world, for example. I really mean that I'd be hesitant to uproot children when I live close to family, in a good neighbourhood with good state school and close to work so I don't have long commute times which eat into a day with children. I tried to get settled after moving around a lot with work when I was younger, so it's hard to give that up and get back on the road again. Maybe we're just not a good match at all, in terms of what we want out of life.

OP posts:
Gina2012 · 14/01/2019 19:21

Have a baby but be a single Mum

Your DP is never going to provide for you (imo) and having a baby is so important to you

Provide for you and the baby and don't fret about DP and his lack of income

Waddsup12 · 14/01/2019 19:48

Out of interest, I googled post-docs in your DP's subject, didn't see any in the UK but only glanced so probably missed them, some nice Unis in there but in the US, Europe, etc.

I would be checking out what he's saying to you, it may work in his head and sound plausible but....

NicolaStart · 14/01/2019 20:24

Can he even live and work in this country, post student visa / post Brexit??

I think he is a spy.

Gaps / vagueness in his job history, endless studies, PhD running behind so that he can eke it out, can’t commit to a family life, funded by his government now revealed as ‘loans’ to put you off...

CallMeSirShotsFired · 14/01/2019 20:35

@123Jess you are acting with a commendable maturity during what must be a difficult time.

I'm just catching up and one post struck me (about recognising his flaws). I broke up with someone last year and while I know I was truly horrendous to live with, I have very recently realised (like, this Jan) that I am now able to remember his flaws that drove me up the wall. I'd just sort of forgotten them till now.

In my case I think it's a sign I am healing as I am able to see the bigger picture, but that's exactly what I think is happening to you too. You're seeing all of him, not just the bits you subconsciously wanted to.

Littleraindrop15 · 14/01/2019 20:48

Op run for the hills!! You will find someone don't waste your life away with a deadbeat.

KeiTeNgeNge · 14/01/2019 20:51

I am married to an academic - we have moved to UK for post docs that were supposed to translate into lectureship positions. Brexit referendum scuttled his chances due to funding uncertainties etc. Kids did not take the move well, missed their grandparents and cousins. Now we are pretty much stuck in one city due to his specialised expertise. I’d consider carefully but in your position I’d throw this fish back into the ocean.

Unobtainable · 14/01/2019 20:53

How odd. It seems almost as if you’re a cover or beard of some sort. Id say he was a cock lodger if it werent for the fact that he’s not keen to commit in any way shape or form (no cohabiting, no marriage, no children). You seem to live quite separate lives with no plans for progression.

If he keeps building debt, eventually he’ll be maxed out and he’ll be qualified to do fuck all as he’s been a perpetual student his whole life.

You can do so much better OP. Make 2019 the year you get out there, join clubs and meet someone who’s willing to build a family with you.

Belenus · 14/01/2019 21:07

I think he is a spy.

I think spies have better cover stories.

123Jess · 14/01/2019 22:53

Some of these posts (esp about the spies) really made me laugh, thank you. Not that it's a funny situation at all, but I have been so anxious about all of this and I think I really needed a laugh!

Just talked to my boyfriend. Was going to raise the issues I wanted to raise about our future together but he was really upset and told me that he's been put on academic probation at his university. So he has like 6 weeks or something to turn his progress around or he's out. Anyway, he then thanked me for being wonderful, apologised for being such a failure and said he's so grateful for all my support and that I mean everything to him and I'm the only good thing in his life. So now I feel terrible. I even feel bad writing these posts, it feels mean and disloyal. But I also know I can't stay with him because I feel bad. And this all kindof reemphasises that he probably isn't father material (at least in the near future). But it just didnt feel like the right moment to initiate a conversation about our future and potentially breaking up. I care a lot about him and we've been together for 2 years. It seems heartless to dump him now and sent him spiralling more into the depths of despair. So I guess I wait for a bit at least. I imagine that'll cause frustrated responses but I couldn't hit him with another blow when he was down.

OP posts:
Teenytinyvoice · 14/01/2019 23:02

Do you think it’s true? Or do you think he just doesn’t want you to break up with him?

As well as agreeing with lots posted up thread, I am surprised more people haven’t commented on the honesty issue - he gave the impression he was funded when he wasn’t. I find that quite deceitful.

If he is genuinely on probation, why - has he been doing fuck all by any chance?

Sounds like an ideal time to break up honestly, he can focus on himself 😄

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 14/01/2019 23:08

Any chance he has access to your posts here? Bit of a coincidence that he now has a sure fire way to guilt trip you into not ending it, all this 'you are the only good thing in his life' etc, sounds like well rehearsed patter from a bad soap.
You have only been seeing him for 2 years, op. In the grand scheme of your life he is a bit part and there is never a 'right time' to dump someone. Please take control of your own life and stop being such a pushover. He survived perfectly well before you came along, dont forget.Flowers

123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:13

I know it's true as he showed me the email from his supervisor. I hadn't raised any breakup/future issues before him telling me, it was literally the first thing he said to me. And yes, he's really behind on his work.
The honesty issue is a concern for me too. There have been a few lies I have called him out on. They tend to be things that portray him as more successful/accomplished than he is. I think he's quite insecure in that respect.
I know he's been prone to depression and anxiety in the past so just didn't want to push him over the edge tonight, so to speak. I know the conversation has to be had sooner or later though. I just have a tendency to want to help people when they're at their lowest as I've had some seriously low points in my life as well and I know how tough life can be sometimes.

OP posts:
PlumpSyrianHamster · 14/01/2019 23:16

It's your life, Jess, and your lookout, but honestly, your time may be quite limited at nearly 37, no fertility test can say definitively, so I do hope you at least look into the sperm donation so you're ready to go. Staying with him does not preclude your having a child on your own. He's not father material, even you know this. I'm a bit dubious at his sudden announcement.

123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:16

@Ruddygreattiger2016 I can't think of any way he would have access (unless he has some sophisticated stalking mechanism on my computer!) But it did seem like a weird coincidence, although I feel like the lack of progress has been building for a while as he's been very stressed recenty.
Thanks for the harsh words. I know you're right and that I'm being pathetic. I'm literally aware of it as I'm typing my excuses!

OP posts:
123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:18

@PlumpSyrianHamster yes you're right time is running out for me, I fear. When 2019 came, I felt really shit and realised I needed to take action if I wanted a family, ever. That's why I raised it with him, and it's been an emotional and stressful journey ever since. Going to sleep on it tonight and revisit tomorrow. thanks everyone. this really does help me see clearly xx

OP posts:
PlumpSyrianHamster · 14/01/2019 23:22

Give it some thought because I can tell you, back in the day when I wanted kids, I thought, Oh, I'll be fine with one, but as soon as DD1 was born I wanted another. Even though I was only 34, it took us about 6 months to conceive DD2. Oddly enough, DS was the most easily conceived and I was 37, but he has autism and I'm wondering if it's not age-related because there is some evidence the incidence of this increases with age. Sadly, though, I do know several women who waited like you and got very unlucky. For every happy story there are those who never conceive, miscarry, aren't successful at IVF or have fetuses with serious abnormalities and TFMR. It's not a given, sadly, that you're young enough to wait and pop out a child or two.

The bottom line is that he's not ready so you need to explore matters on your own.

PoppyField · 14/01/2019 23:24

You’ve only been together 2 years? Wow. That’s no time. You have given yourself such responsibility for him in that period. The way you write about your relationship I’d thought it would have been at least ten years!

He is not your responsibility, OP. In that two years, however, you seem to have taken on that responsibility. He may be very lovable and sweet, but he is incredibly manipulative. Telling you that you are the only good thing in his life isn’t a compliment. All it does is shackle you to him and make you feel totally stuck. It is totally unfair for him to do this to you.

He needs to sort himself out. You can’t do that for him. Don’t have him as your project. Detach, detach. We’ve established that time is of the essence. Don’t let him slow you down. I know I sound heartless and I’m sure he has many good qualities, but in one day he’s reeled you back in.

Think, when exactly is it EVER going to be a good time to break up with him? What about you?

PlumpSyrianHamster · 14/01/2019 23:24

The other elephant in the room is his status here. Does he have indefinite leave to remain? How does he plan to stay here after his mythical PhD is complete? Because you do not want to marry this man to make this so. It's far better for you to conceive by an anonymous donor (you can get those from abroad, Google 'Viking Babies') than be tethered down by this man if he had visa issues.

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