He's broke - does it matter?

[123Jess]

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

Yes, @Travisandthemonkey that was the real dealbreaker for me. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise given all the other issues.

You've given me the fear @Jarveau and @ManchesterMum63 ! I was suprrised at his reaction because previously he'd suggested he'd love to stay home and take care of kids. Not sure that's what I'd want though. I feel like I'd be the woman doing everything in that scenario.

I do trust my friends. They haven't been especially vocal on the subject but I haven't told them the full facts. Same with my parents. My mum likes him because he's not sexist and she thinks he loves me and cares about me. But I haven't told her most of the issues. It's nice to hear peoples' views on here because I haven't told my family/friends the full situation (largely because I don't want to taint their view of him).

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all these comments - I know I haven't properly replied to everyone individually but I've taken in every word! Thank you!!

Postdocs start on around £30k and are often at £40+ within a few years, then there's loads of career progression options as well as (usually) potential to move across to private or consultant roles so I wouldn't write him off just yet! We had our first baby while I had a crap job and my husband was doing a PhD, 3 years later and all is well! Also why would you be main breadwinner and also primary caregiver? Remember academic roles tend to be pretty flexible too.

@MaybeDoctor thanks so much for the sperm donor advice. I do have a couple of gay friends who have offered in the past, so that's might be a possibility. My gay friends actually know each other and had a fight once about who would be the 'better' sperm donor for me lol. I guess bringing up a child on my own scares me a bit, especially when my parents aren't well enough to help and I don't have any siblings. But it's probably better than having the potential stresses lots of you have identified in the future with this relationship.

Re: the international aspect, he says he never wants to go back to his home country. But positions on things like that can change. He also gets permanent residency here in a couple of years I think so hopefully won't want to be marrying me for a right to remain...

What a mess - need to think this all through and get my act together! Appreciate all the advice so much. So many wise women on here. And everyone is so nice and supportive (unlike the general internet!). Thank you!!

Thanks for the alternative perspective @Toomuchworking ! Glad to hear it worked out well for you.
I think we need to first have a serious talk about what he wants for the future and what his plans are for career/family etc. As if we're really not on the same page then that's a massive issue. Then if we're not on the same page, I just need to move on.

He's Peter Pan. The eternal student, the little boy who doesn't wish to grow up and he's also dishonest. He knows the window on your fertility, so he knows absolutely what he's doing by delaying this to your forties. How selfish of him to try to make you never have children.

And you should also know about his life, about the jobs he did, in his early twenties, why has he never explained, likely because he dossed around a lot. He is a waster pretending to be something he isn't. He's already messing up his phd. He doesn't even have a plan to service his debt and could be significantly in trouble.

It's all very well to sneer at people who earn decent money, whilst living off debt you can never repay, and as i am sure you know, living in poverty is no joy. Living in poverty with kids is soul destroying. And if you had them you'd be financially and logistically responsible. He'd be off, unless there was something in it for him,

Honestly. He's a selfish dosser who doesn't want responsibility. So I think I'd call it quits. You can't stay with him just as a sperm donor.

Is he entitled to work even? If he doesn't have residency status? Have you met any of his family? Don't have a baby with some one who only has student status in this country.
The fact that you are hiding aspects of your situation from your friends is a red flag also. He might just cut and run out of the country when his PHd is over and not pay the debts.

You can get a residency permit, and you can get a permanent residency permit. He doesn't have the second.

There was a post on here about employers interviewing applicationts. Choice person A graduate whose parents paid for a gap year. Versus person B graduate who worked in a small job waiting for a better opportunity. All employers replied with person B. Your current partner is the equivalent of person A, he probably has lots of qualifications and can talk the talk, but he doesn't seem to have much life experience, motivation, work ethic or practical vision for the future. I would not have a child with this person.

I believe a student is permitted to work 20 hours a week

It is a bad sign when you hide major parts of who your partner is in order to avoid tainting other people's views or to stop them getting the wrong idea.

I think all children should be taught to immediately start telling the truth to people the minute they notice themselves starting down that path. A bit like dealing with the beginnings of blackmail or abuse.

This is classic biological clock going off big time.
Carry on and you'll end up broke, pregnant, supporting a partner who has legal redress to your child, your apartment, your income.....
No. Just no...

Sagging off your old job is mean I would not like that.

Imho, he is a confirmed bachelor. He mirrored you in the beginning so you’d go out with him/be a companion. He may not be so focused on using you/your assets because he is more self focused on his lifestyle and doesn’t want that to change.

You are fundamentally incompatible regarding finances. Your gut feeling is on the mark. Do not let his lip service over ride that.

He wants theoretical kids, so easy to talk about when they are not anywhere near being in existence. He showed his true colors with his horrific response at a suggestion to move forward for ttc. Please don’t minimize or fabricate an explanatory justification for ignoring his position. Have you ever seen him around children?

And you are completely right to not ever marry him. With such boundaries (including financial safeguards), it does point to the conclusion that he is not a keeper. Do not have a child with him.

Imho, he doesn’t even rate qualification to be considered for “settling”. He is more of a “what on earth are you thinking?” ...just because he is “nice” and not arrogant. He is rather arrogant though, isn’t he, presuming an awful lot on his way to his ivory tower (just in a different way from the professional blokes you ran into before).

@pallasathena - I agree. I did exactly the same thing in my 30's, getting pregnant by a completely unsuitable man, because my body was subconsciously telling me to.
Love my DS to bits, but life would have been very different if I had chosen his dad more carefully.

I adopted a dd as a single parent. I already had a birth dd from a previous relationship and still went on not adopt on my own. I’m not saying it was a walk in the park. But there’s a lot to be said to parenting alone. You don’t have to take other peoples opinions into account and it’s an awful lot less stressful than trying to parent with a fuckwit

I suspect also op you're also dealing with a man who has never really worked, he's never held down a proper job for any length of time. He's also stuffing up his phd and I assume if he could borrow more he'd just start again, and it may be difficult for him to borrow so he could be in a catch 22.

I think when someone gets to 35 and they've never really had a job, you probably have to assume there is a reason for that.

I do trust my friends. They haven't been especially vocal on the subject but I haven't told them the full facts. Same with my parents. My mum likes him because he's not sexist and she thinks he loves me and cares about me. But I haven't told her most of the issues. It's nice to hear peoples' views on here because I haven't told my family/friends the full situation (largely because I don't want to taint their view of him).

Pretty much answering your own question there OP. If he was genuinely suitable for you you'd have been blabbering away to your friends about "oh and another thing he does XYZ and it's so lovely/ amazing/ aren't I lucky" and you'd mean it. And your friends would want a sick bucket but they'd also be happy for you.

Tell one of your friends the full situation and see what they say. Even without full knowledge they may just be holding their breath thinking "please dump him".

And he won't have an academic career. Brilliant people who work extremely hard and tick all the boxes get pushed out. He gave up on his first degree, he's tried to change his PhD topic, his supervisor is fed up with him. And he needs his supervisor if he's going to get anywhere. I have no objection to long-term students - I was one. But almost everyone else doing a PhD is ahead of him in the queue for jobs. Sorry.

Thanks everyone. Yes, I think he can work 20 hours a week but he has only done teaching for one term. As far as I know he had one professional type job which he quit after 8 months as he couldn't stand the corporate lifestyle (hence the general disdain for my previous career path). You're right @Bluntness100 I should know more about his background. He doesn't give much away about that part of his life. He knows much more about me than I do about him (I'm pretty open with both my successes and fuck ups!).
I haven't met anyone in his family @Seaweed42. His mum is actually visiting from this upcoming weekend so that would be the first time I'd meet anyone from his family. I did meet some friends from his past and they were actually great.
I guess I thought he had a lot of potential and that if I just encourage him and believe in him he'll do well. But that needs self-motivation and drive and resilience which I think he can struggle with at times. I sortof started to believe he'd had raw deal in life and someone just needed to believe in him. I also feel guilty because I went through a very bad experience last year and he was really there for me on an emotional level. I then thought that emotional support was more important to me than financial support when I discovered his financial troubles, so convinced myself that way I suppose.
Interesting what you say about the mirroring @AndTheBandPlayedOn In the beginning of our relationship I thought we were so similar and as time goes by I keep thinking there are so many more differences than I originally realised.
Thanks for sharing your experiences @WhoKnewBeefStew and @Charley50. I'm starting to think I'd be best starting over, giving myself say another year maximum to see if i find someone I want to spend my life with whilst also investigating the sole-parenting / sperm donation potentially with a friend approach.
completely agree it's bad when you start 'covering' for a partner, so to speak @CottonTailRabbit I usually tell my mum everything (we are very close) and how I feel horrible because it's like there's this whole aspect of my partner she doesn't know about. She's always speaking positively about him and I feel like a bit of a fraud. But now it's hard to unravel (although I should do that, I know).
I have seen him around children @AndTheBandPlayedOn and he is great with them (better than me, I'd say as I never had younger siblings or younger cousins so i'm not the most natural with babies). My best friend had a baby girl last year though, and I'm totally smitten. Her husband is amazing with the baby though which made me feel sad about the prospect of going it alone.
I think there is something about me wanting to help him. Like he's some sort of undiscovered talent that I can help to nurture (I'm actually loling at myself at how ridiculous this sounds). I guess I have a lot of faith in people generally, too much i'm often told.
You've all given me so much to think about. And I won't just think about it. I'll digest it all then I'll take action.

Op you sound so genuine and it's such a shame to have found yourself in this situation. Having been married to someone who had seemingly never-ending debt, as well as no qualms about borrowing further as it was his normal, I can only say that it's soul destroying dealing with someone else's debts.

Your partner seems to be the type who fancies himself as a bit of a free spirit. A thinker. Not a wage slave. You and he are not compatible. Also the posters who've flagged up that his past seems shadowy are correct, you should be concerned about this.

I think it’s the fact that he doesn’t really have a plan and he thinks you and him are too young for children. Which at 35 is not a good sign

@Belenus I think this is good advice - I was thinking of telling all to a trusted friend to see what she says. I imagine she will react in the same way as everyone has here (which is perhaps why I've been putting it off - hard to hear from someone you care about I guess).

I also understand how hard it is to pursue an academic career, as I did a masters at Oxford (before wasting my life away in the corporate world..!) Many of my friends tried to pursue academic careers and it didn't work out for a lot of them, even though in my opinion they were truly brilliant. It's just really hard, and it's getting harder. That's why his progress is of particular concern to me. Maybe he can turn it around but maybe not. I also feel guilty for taking up his time when he should be working on his thesis which I guess is a weird relationship dynamic. Like I know he's behind so I feel guilty when we go on a nice date and he can't be doing work.

Jess, the only person you can save is yourself.

Thanks @Floralhousecoat for your perspective. I really don't think I could handle worrying about his debts if we had children. Although my parents didn't have much, they worked themselves out of poverty, working many jobs whilst also being great parents. And it's just contrary to what I believe to amass big debts (student or otherwise) and not be concerned about it. He does try to normalise it like it's no big deal and that really concerns me.

Yes, @Travisandthemonkey someone who thinks they're too young for children at 35 really mystifies me. Maybe being a student affects this in some respect but I think even when I was in my mid-20s I felt more ready for children then he seems to now at 35.

@PlumpSyrianHamster
Short and to the point! You're right.

NO! What seems attractive now- intellectual, deep thinking etc - will soon be traits that will annoy the hell out of you, particularly if you have children. He will be a manchild and you will have 100% of the mental load. Lots of articles on that!

You will be the one earning, sorting out bills, insurance, holidays, appointments, everything He will drain your joy and aspirations. NO.