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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He's broke - does it matter?

327 replies

123Jess · 14/01/2019 01:47

I've been dating my boyfriend for nearly 2 years. We're very happy in most respects - we get along great, he's always a great emotional support to me and we generally have similar values etc. However, over time it's become clear just how broke he is. It never bothered me that he wasn't wealthy, but now that I want to start building a family, and it's become clear just how broke he is, it's made me think that I'm likely to be breadwinner + caretaker and that scares me a bit.

To further expand, I'm 36 (almost 37 - eek) and he's 35. I had a fairly long corporate career before moving to more a balanced job. I switched because I worked crazy hours and wanted to prioritise meeting someone and starting a family. My previous income allowed me to buy my own apartment and to generally not worry extensively about money. I have also financially supported my parents for many years.

My boyfriend is currently studying for a PhD (he still has 2 years to go), and following that he will likely become a postdoc which is a very low paid role.

I love him and don't want to delay starting a family given our ages. But then if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant and be looking after a baby, I won't be earning much either as my current job is much lower paid than my old job and the maternity benefits are also not great.

I also recently discovered my boyfriend is not only broke but that he also has a lot of debts. He seemed quite calm about that, whereas it worried me. Don't get me wrong, I've been in debt in the past too, but I've worked hard to pay it off and to save. Right now his earnings are zero so the debt is getting bigger.

The other part that annoys me is that he is sometimes critical of my past corporate career (I'd say this is the only thing he criticises me for). He thinks I only did it for the money (which is partly true) and that people who only care about money are shallow (he's never said I'm shallow but he's generally scathing about those in the corporate world and how messed up capitalist society is).

I come from a very low income, working class background so it's true that I thought I needed to work hard and get a good job to earn money (partly to help out my parents who suffer from ill health). It's almost a point of pride for him not to care about money and to be committed to having a job that's more of a vocation, I guess.

But then a vocation doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I've always wanted a big family (I am an only child). My boyfriend comes from a family of 6 children. We'd always talked about having a big family but when we talked about it again last week he said that each child is like a second mortgage and we wouldn't be able to afford it.

Overall, I'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot. I worked so hard in my younger years, and now I feel like I'm getting older and I'm desperate to start a family. It's all I've ever wanted and I feel like I wasted my 20s and early 30s working. But now I'm back to worrying about money again. Many of my friends are able not to work, as their husbands/partners earn enough to keep them and they are happy not working. I'm not saying that I don't want to work per se but the one thing I'm certain that I do want is a family and this feels like another big obstacle, despite how hard I've worked to amass my own savings.

I've been generally so happy in this relationship (we've had a few ups and downs but doesn't everyone) and was really feeling ready to take the next step towards family. But now I'm starting to have doubts and fear.

Sorry for the long post xx

OP posts:
123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:27

Thanks @PlumpSyrianHamster , I know the uncertainty of it all is so anxiety inducing. Everything could be fine and I could have 3 kids with ease, or it could never happen for me. I know people who have experienced both sides of that and you never know which side you are on. My best friend who i mentioned early has a baby girl went through so much fertility treatment and it took years before she had her baby girl via IVF. It was all so traumatic for her, and that was with the most supportive husband by her side. It all brought it home for me really, hence the urgency I feel.
I'm going to explore what I need to do to go it alone. Thank you for the advice x

OP posts:
AnneEyhtMeyer · 14/01/2019 23:28

He is stealing your future and every day you stay with him is a step away from the life you want. This man will never change. And today's episode is emotional blackmail to stop you taking control.

You're worth far more than this.

showmeshoyu · 14/01/2019 23:29

He applied for a Tier 3 indefinite leave to be a cocklodger. The evidence was deemed to be overwhelmingly convincing and the Visa was immediately granted.

123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:29

Thanks @PoppyField - you're so right about what he said and that it's manipulative and he's not my responsibility. He does need to sort himself out. You don't sound heartless. Reading my posts I sound like a mug!

OP posts:
123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:33

Thanks @AnneEyhtMeyer "He is stealing your future and every day you stay with him is a step away from the life you want" - really hit the nail on the head.

@PlumpSyrianHamster my understanding of the visa issue (although I don't know for sure) is that if he gets kicked out of the university he gets kicked out of the country, but I'm not 100% sure. Which makes our relationship even more vulnerable even if I were willing to give it a go. If he completes the PhD he'll have leave to remain I think as it takes 10 years and he's been here for 7. Don't worry I won't be marrying him!

OP posts:
123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:35

Thanks for the Viking Babies tip as well!

OP posts:
AndTheBandPlayedOn · 14/01/2019 23:41

Actually, the probation issue is the perfect time to “step back” from the relationship as he will need to put 1000% of his focus on his course of study. (My ds recently broke up with his gf for this reason.) He simply does not have time for a relationship right now and you will do him a favor by leaving (him) (alone) so he can have a better chance to succeed.

Do not allow him to put you in the position of being a distraction that he can point to as the cause of his failure.

His mental health is his responsibility. Your chronometer is not going to stop for some bloke you’ve been entertaining for a couple of years. He has concerns, yes, and you have been empathetic towards him. But please do not lose sight of yourself and the fact that your concerns/circumstances/agenda take priority over anything he may be going through. He has made damn sure your connection with each other has been expertly managed to his (superficial) specifications. I will even go as far to guess that you love him far more than he loves you. Sorry. Sad

Please have that conversation before his mum rocks into town. She can be the one to pat him on the head and tell him everything will be ok...at 35 years old .

PlumpSyrianHamster · 14/01/2019 23:43

If he completes the PhD he'll have leave to remain I think as it takes 10 years and he's been here for 7.

If he's banking on that old policy after Brexit he is fooling himself. All the more reason not to procreate with him, and I mean that seriously. He'll be trying to manipulate you into marriage because there is no way in hell he'll get an employer to sponsor him.

Spot on that you're allowing him to rob you of you future. He'll go back to wherever he was from, keep in touch and then one day you get this message from him about how he met someone, is getting married and she's pregnant and it's too late for you. I had a guy do this to me, only I'd had the sense to dump him when I was 30 so when he sent me the message with the photo of his wife and child I was like, 'That's nice, I've got 3.'

PlumpSyrianHamster · 14/01/2019 23:45

If you were my daughter, Jess, I'd say the same to you. You deserve to have teh children you want.

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 14/01/2019 23:54

Jess, he doesn't need to work for MI5 to track your computer activities, if he knows you post on here, saw a random mumsnet email or checked your browsing history he will be aware. And let's face it, if he's not getting out of bed until 3pm and obviously hasn't been doing much 'studying' he has plenty of time on his hands to mess around online. (And as a single parent working 2 jobs plus studying for a degree this really pisses me off!)

Anyway, back to the most important part, you. You are obviously a hugely successful, articulate and sensible woman. He knows this. He also knows you are way too kind and trusting and he knows very well how to play you.
But you need to start reminding yourself, you deserve the life you have worked your ass of for, you can make it happen, and you will.
Never let yourself get sidetracked for some blokes' failings and bad life choices, concentrate on YOU.Flowers

123Jess · 14/01/2019 23:58

@PlumpSyrianHamster @AndTheBandPlayedOn
Thank you. Yes, maybe now is a good time to properly step back and leave him to sort out his own life. It's actually quite fortuitous that his mum will visit therefore I don't need to worry and feel guilty.

@PlumpSyrianHamster that's so awful!!! So glad you had 3!!
My last ex-boyfriend was a workaholic corporate type who didn't want to settle down. I was with him when I turned 30, and he made me feel like I was SO old, even though he is 9 years older than me. He just posted news of his 3rd child on facebook today (I really need to get off social media...). He only got married 4 years ago so I guess it's possible to procreate fast even in limited time! (if you're lucky)

I need to move on. I'll talk to him tomorrow, promise.

OP posts:
Travisandthemonkey · 14/01/2019 23:59

Well I mean it’s an easy way to have kids and get rid of the father. If he gets chucked out of the country you could just be a bit 🤷‍♂️ Sorry can’t do anything about that love.
Blame it on brexit

Travisandthemonkey · 15/01/2019 00:01

I am making a joke btw!
But seriously. It seems your last guy had similar attitude towards kids with you.

Have you really thought about why you end up with people who obviously are saying to you (maybe not in words) that they’re not prepared to give you what you want?

123Jess · 15/01/2019 00:01

But you need to start reminding yourself, you deserve the life you have worked your ass of for, you can make it happen, and you will.
Never let yourself get sidetracked for some blokes' failings and bad life choices, concentrate on YOU.

OP posts:
123Jess · 15/01/2019 00:05

@Travisandthemonkey Brexit baby lol!
Yeah there must be a reason why I end up with these guys. I didn't date that much growing up as I was always studying and working. So maybe I'm just not very good at it! Or it's something deeper of course, need to think about that. My last guy had more of an issue with me being smart and successful. He said he didn't want to settle down but I think he wanted someone less intelligent/independent who would be a housewife. He ended up marrying his secretary and they seem very happy. I'm not bitter as I wasn't that into him. Just amazed at the quick procreation! And I feel a bit sad for myself when I see everyones' growing families.

OP posts:
Travisandthemonkey · 15/01/2019 00:08

Did you get rid of the ex as soon as he said he didn’t want to settle down or not

123Jess · 15/01/2019 00:17

@Travisandthemonkey yes I did actually and I didn't feel bad about breaking up with him or give it much of a second thought really. He wasn't bothered either so it was the easiest breakup I've ever had and we remained on good terms if we'd bump into each other. I was younger then and felt like I had more time whereas I think the age thing is clouding my judgment here.

OP posts:
KeiTeNgeNge · 15/01/2019 00:26

Please don’t waste any more of your time on this guy

justilou1 · 15/01/2019 00:45

Sweetie, you remind me so much of myself, it's terrifying! He is also so much like my ex (who also developed schizophrenia towards the end of his Ph.D. and forged letters, didn't pay bills, dropped the bundle, checked my internet activity, etc, made me feel paranoid, etc....). Please be very careful. If he is booted from the program, please don't try and save him. Don't pick up his pieces and take legal responsibility for this guy. Don't let him move in with you, whatever you do. Especially with Brexit looming. (I have no idea where he's from, but you don't want to be stuck with him.). Not only is he not mature enough to be a father at the moment, but he is completely unwilling to give up on his plans and projects. It's not in his agenda at all. What he discussed in his wooing and seduction phase has changed. He has you now. I suspect you need to look at personality disorders as well. He sounds very much like he's capable of very grandiose ideas and lofty plans, he is very superior when he wants to be, and yet he plays victim when necessary. He is not at all responsible for "adulting" in his own life. You can't take him on.

Prettyvase · 15/01/2019 00:48

Don't be surprised if he suddenly agrees to have a child with you just so that he can stay in your life as having you in his life makes it easy for him.

I think he's using you.

Your friends are right.

Sorry op but you really need to concentrate on YOU now because every day that passes brings you closer to your own infertility.

You need to detach.

Good luck and I'm glad you are listening to your gut now.

user9876 · 15/01/2019 03:18

If he is on a student visa (Tier 4), this does not necessarily count towards indefinite leave to remain. The government have been really cracking down on this in the last few years as students would come to UK and use study as a way to gain residency. He is on shaky grounds if he loses his visa (assuming he is not from an EU country).

Gina2012 · 15/01/2019 07:04

Reading my posts I sound like a mug!

In the kindest way possible - yes, you do. And the reason you do is because you ARE being a mug.

Please stop

Please think how you would want you (as yet unborn) child to see you

Please please find some self respect

Please find a way to have what you want and need without dragging a useless energy sucking albatross with you through the rest of your life

The above all said with great love for you, OP

CottonTailRabbit · 15/01/2019 08:06

I see what you mean about it being low to break up when he's down.

Ok so now would be horrid. When would be better? During his 6 weeks probation? He was put on probation for not doing his work, right? So are you going to cajole him into doing his actual job during those 6 weeks?

What about when he fails probation? He'll reallly feel like shit then. No defo can't be a meanie then.

What about during his breakdown after failing?

How about when he's looking for a job, any job after failing? He'll need help to search. He'll be feeling crap

Getting up and out to work will be difficult when he gets some job. The job will be crappy. He will feel shit.

Look, he has been put on probation because he didn't do his actual work. He didn't do any paid work either. Helping him hide doesn't help anyone. You could quite legitimately tell him you have been thinking about it and you are deeply disappointed to discover that he has been skiving off work to the extent that he is on probation. It has highlighted to you what different values you both have and so you are breaking up with him. You wish him luck in his studies. He will feel bad. He should feel bad. He has been slacking. Not your problem to own or fix.

justilou1 · 15/01/2019 08:27

The question needs to be asked, then... WTAF has he been doing with his time and all his loan money, then?

NicolaStart · 15/01/2019 08:34

The fact that one of his peers works 30 hours a week, has 2 young children and is way ahead of him in her studies tells you everything you need to know about him.

He left his job because he couldn’t hack the full time work lifestyle, he is now under threat because he isn’t grafting at his studies....

Dead weight.

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