Messages between DH and ex - don't know what to think

[Worriedandveryconfused]

I’ve NC’d for this but I’m a longstanding poster. I don’t know if I’m BU or what to do next. Apologies if this gets long but I don’t want to be accused of drip feeding.

Background: DH & I married 10 years, 1 DD. We married when I found out I was pregnant. I’d have liked more DCs, DH didn’t so DD is an only. DH has an ex who is his “one who got away”. They were together through university and broke up through circumstances rather than any issues or mismatch. I struggled with this at first, eg DH kept all the cards, notes etc she’d sent him and was reluctant to get rid. We had a real wobble a couple of years in when she contacted him to tell him she was getting married and he didn’t deal with it very well. But we got through it and he’s been a good husband and father since.

About a year ago I noticed her name pop up as having replied to one or two of his FB statuses. I didn’t say anything but I sent her a friend request myself, which I admit was a bit weird as I don’t actually know her. Nevertheless she accepted so I had a snoop round her profile, as you do. A few things made me a bit uneasy, first she’s really pretty, good figure etc, second her relationship status said “single” and also although she hadn’t posted that much my DH had commented or liked or put a heart reaction on literally everything she’d posted, going back weeks and weeks. Again I didn’t say anything but the next time I saw she’d commented I asked “is that Such-and-Such?” and when he said yes I asked casually if she was still married. He said no, they’d split up quite recently.

A month or so before Christmas a mutual friend of theirs from university posted some old photos from that time and tagged my DH and this woman in them. Even though it was from years ago, it really hurt me to see photos of them together with their arms round each other etc. One of the photos they weren’t the subject but off to one side, kind of in the background they were kissing really passionately. On this photo my DH had commented “I remember that night ‘wink’” and she’d replied “I do too ‘wink’” then he said “BBJE still” and she’d responded with “naughty...but thank you” and a blowing kiss emoji. I asked him what “BBJE” meant and he brushed it off as an old university in joke, when I pushed to know what it stood for he got irritated and said it was ancient history and to drop it.

Just before Christmas he left his iPad lying around and I’m embarrassed to say I went snooping. I found dozens and dozens and dozens of messages between them, going back all year. There was nothing to suggest an affair, most of them were just chit-chat about their day, but there were quite a few compliments from my DH to her, eg he asked her where certain holiday photos had been taken and when she said which ones, he’d said “where you’re in the gorgeous red bikini”. (of course I went looking and the photos were from yonks ago, it took me ages to find them so how long had he spent going through her photos? And she hasn’t had kids so of course there’s no stretch marks or c-scar or pouch, she’s all long tanned legs and toned belly and perky boobs, there’s no way I can compare). Their recent messages talk about her moving to a city not exactly on the doorstep but where DH has to go minimum of once a month for work. One of his last messages says to let him know when she's found her place and they can meet up and he'll show her round, and she replied with "I'd like that."

I chewed over this for a few days, could hardly think about anything else but between Christmas and NY I finally asked him about the messages and he said she's been down and lonely since splitting with her DH and he's just been trying to build her confidence back up. I said I wasn't happy about them meeting up, he said it probably wouldn't happen anyway but even if it did it was just a friend helping another friend. He was annoyed that I'd snooped on his iPad which I understand and we had an argument about trust, he said I've always been jealous of her for no real reason as he's always been faithful to me. It's true that I've always had a bit of a jealousy problem where she's concerned so there is some truth in what he says.

We had friends round on NYE and shortly after midnight I put our DD to bed while he stayed downstairs with our guests. I tried to have another look on the iPad but he's changed the passcode but there was an unread message from her on the lock screen sent just after midnight, wishing him happy new year and calling him "her rock" and saying she's looking forward to the "next chapter". I haven't said anything to him because I'm embarrassed to admit I was trying to snoop on his iPad again, but I don;t know what to think, what's normal, if I'm BU or he is or what the hell's going on. I want to believe they're just friends but my gut is constantly churning just thinking about them messaging each other and DH looking at photos of her looking gorgeous and sexy in a tiny bikini.

That's a very romantic whitewash you've been fed about the past. Like I said upthread, if they both wanted it to work then they would have overcome the distance. Or your H would have commuted. Or deferred starting his career for a year. He was fresh out of uni, how badly was his career going to suffer? Romantic nonsense. It ended because at least one of them didn't care enough.

Are you saying he cheated on her when they were long-distance?

Oh no, sorry, she ended it and he had flings in the aftermath.

I'm so sorry but I just wouldn't trust him.
It may be friendship now but he's already disrespected you by saying "BBJE....still" and is openly admitting that he still fancies her by saying about her gorgeous bikini.

If it were my DH I'd be saying "cut all contact or leave". I'm aware that it's not ever that simple though.
I really hope that she disappears!

How do people cope with this stuff without going mad?
You don't.
This kind of thing sends you mad.
Until you properly confront it and sort it out, it will keep driving mad.
It's not good for your mental health to bottle this up.

OP I agree with Robin. Obviously, if a person reminds you of your carefree younger self and some cool stuff and adventures you had together, it is great reminiscing together. And there may even be the wish to be so young again and bring back the time. But nobody can do that. It is a nice illusion and there is a good chance your partner understands it is an illusion, while his life with you and DD is real and good.

I have had this type of messaging from a guy from my past. My DP was always informed this chat went on. The guy crossed the lines at times to what I would call inappropriate (and I directed things back to appropriate then).
I am absolutely certain that for all this fond reminiscing (even though the guy still has a soft spot for me, I believe), he never questioned his life with his wife and kid because of it. Never.

Nothing wrong with talking to your DH about how this situation impacts you, and to ask him to be considerate of your feelings. And to remind him that what you have together is real, while her are just memories of his ‚glorious youth‘.

On the contrary, I think one thing that’s been almost unanimous on this entire thread is that the husband has acted appallingly. OP came here unsure if she was overreacting or being irrational. I think it’s a good thing she now realises she isn’t being those things, most people would be furious and feel betrayed by his actions, and even if her DH tries to make out she’s overreacting, she now has some backing (in her own mind at least) to listen to her gut and not try and suppress her instincts and sadness about this situation.

I ask after the spouses of my friends. Not all the time, but it's normal to acknowledge them and ask how they're doing if I haven't seen them for a while. By not mentioning you they're avoiding any guilt about their emotional affair. It's not a friendship. It's more than that. And they're adopting "out of sight, out of mind" mentality.

OP what sort of stuff do you post on FB? What can she see of your life? It might be easy for them to pretend you don't exist whilst chatting, but how often do you share photos of you and your family? Maybe it's time to start? Tag him on every single photo. Remind them both very firmly that he has a family.

btw, OP that guy who was messaging me (as I mentioned upthread) also married his wife after she got pregnant a couple of months into their relationship. Not long after I left.

I don't post photos of my child on FB and wouldn't start just to keep a possible OW away. Never mind tagging her.

Just because you don't post photos doesn't mean everyone else can't, @Lweji. And I didn't say tag her, I said tag her own husband.

Vietnamese, I've never come across a more disingenuous poster than you are. Too bad for you that your posts are there for all to see. I've read them. Your actual agenda was crystal clear this morning and your last post is heralded with the sound of your frantic back-pedalling.

OP has enough crap going on without your sympathetic musings.

I don't use FB much but I do occasionally put family (DH/DD) stuff on there as the rest of our families aren't nearby so it's nice for them to see. I posted a couple of family photos over Christmas, didn't tag DH but he - and she - "liked" them. She usually "likes" anything I post unless it's obviously directed at someone else eg I've tagged a friend or something. Otherwise we don't really interact.

UnicornSlaughters

Yes, sorry. Not her. Him.

Regardless, if the OP isn't posting family photos, why should she start now? And surely he doesn't need FB reminders of his family.

This is not what will keep him from straying. And trying to convince the OP that it can is giving her false hope.

I think most of us would be feeling pretty tormented by this situation. OP. And that's why you need to talk to your DH. You need to know that he puts you and DD before his ongoing contact with this woman. If it's upsetting you to this extent then it must stop. It's the gesture he needs to make in order to demonstrate to you that he is committed to you and your marriage. I hope he sees it that way OP.

OP, sorry to hear about your predicament. I can't only imagine how distressing this is for you especially as there are no answers here that will give you the comfort you need. Ultimately you will need to work through this with your husband. Open and frank talking. Playing mind games, etc will get you nowhere. You'll need to determine what it is you want your husband to do and plan your conversation and points you want to make around that ultimate goal.

It's difficult to say whether there is an "emotional affair" as the infatuation seems largely one-sided. Regardless, he does have an infatuation that won't go away just by asking him to forget her. He has to confront that infatuation in one of two ways: (1) the wrong way which is to start an affair with her or (2) the much better way which is to seek counselling so that he can be guided to see that he is in love with a fantasy.

When you do sit down to speak to him, I suggest you push point 2. Hopefully he will see sense and realise he needs to exorcise that ghost of the past.

I imagine there are articles or books that you can share with him on this issue of romanticising a past love and how such a fantasy never matches up with reality.

Good luck. Keep it simple and don't get dragged into all the over-dramatisation on here.

As to them not speaking about you. My initial reaction is that this might indicate a deep level of guilt on both their parts. You are the elephant in the room. They simply cannot bring themselves to mention you because they will be confronted with their conscience. You are their conscience and bringing you into their conversations will bring too much of a dose of reality to what's developing between them.

All is not lost. If your husband is willing to prioritise his family, then you and a counsellor can help him get over this infatuation. It is not an easy thing for him to get over. It's not something he can snap his finger and move on. He needs to come to terms with the fact that he is chasing a fantasy and I'm afraid he might need professional intervention for him to handle this in a responsible way. He's been nursing this infatuation and fantasy for more than a decade.

Worriedandveryconfused, I can't imagine what this thread has been like for you. I didn't have Mumsnet when I went through my breakup so I didn't really have other people's views to consider and ponder about. In a way it was helpful as I just decided and acted accordingly but in another, it was to my detriment as I lived in my head.

One thing that has been consistent on your thread is 1) your feelings are validated and 2) you're the principle person who will be responsible for safeguarding yourself and your daughter, regardless of anything else.

Only you know what the situation is between you and your husband and how much of a threat this woman is to your marriage. My heart sank when I read your first post and the subsequent ones are just as gut-wrenching. It sounds as if you're picking up on the actions of your husband and the anomalies that are being posted about here. I'm a great believer in jotting down points that I want to think about later, when my head is too full. I don't know if that would be something you would want to do, but it definitely helps me.

I don't know how you get through this without going mad but I think that a trusted friend who will listen without leaping in to 'fix it' for you, would be a good start and the kindest thing you could do for yourself right now.

You don't need to rush, don't need to do anything that you're not ready for. Sometimes mindful watching and waiting is the best course of action. Rushing into something rarely is. Eat to nourish yourself and get sleep (Kalms or similar was great for me), the rest will come.

I’d like to begin by echoing everyone’s sentiments that this must be a really hard time and you need support and compassion.

Secondly what your DH did was cruel and showed a lack of respect. It’s ok to feel that, it’s a valid feeling, regardless of what the rationale for the behaviour is.

That said there are a few other points I think may be worth thinking though here to build on what’s been said in the rest of the thread.

If I were in your position today and feeling completely confused and like the worlds being pulled away from you I would make a conscious effort to sit down, breathe and ask myself if I can separate out my feeling about this particular situation from how I feel about myself more generally. Regardless of what you decide to do it would be useful to sort though all of your feelings and perhaps try categorise them into ‘this sotuation’ ‘Our marriage good/bad bits’ ‘how I feel about me as an individual separate to role as a mother/wife’. I know this probably seems sterile at such a time but if you did decide to enter into a discussion about this, it may help you to approach it in a more constructive way and give you the breathing space you need. I say this as I don’t get the impression that you want to hit detonate and have a showdown. I dont k is about you but when I’m angry I tend to snowball and throw every feeling into the kitchen sink when I finally crack and it can leave one looking a bit irrational. And you aren’t, your feeling are valid and you have a right to be respected. Also he may be in the same place but form a different t angle, lamenting his list youth (of course this dosesebt excuse things). You can’t control how he feels, but you can try figure out how you feel.

You’ve also mentioned that you may be thinking about getting a job when DH goes to big school, is this something that’s not really feasable at the moment but perhaps you could start to just have a think about. You needent tell anyone in the real world thereby putting pressure on you, just have a bit of a google session. I also empathise that it’s incredibly hard to put yourself out there on life be that at the school gate, work, joining groups or whatever it is. For some folks it’s very very hard. Perhaps just make a list of things you miss doing or enjoy doing and see if anything is feasible. You might not be there today but one day you may get there. The world dosebt need to validate your choices, your life is your journey, let this be your own project.

Another thing I would do just in case you should ever need it is to screen grab some of these posts. If things did deteriorate beyond recovery you may need it. I’m not at all suggesting you are in that place, but it never hurts to plan.

This situation is undoubtedly complicated and I do think there are a lot of strands to it, he has crossed a line but as mentioned above it may also be him trying to recapture a lost youth. I think trying to order your thoughts is probably the most important thing to do now as if you do decide to discuss it with him you’ll need to have a controlled conversation about it (despite this being painful and hard) and think carefully about all the outcomes of the conversation, as well as how you would move forwards.

I wish you all the best, whatever you decide please know that you are entitled to your choice and you are stronger and capable of so many great things. Regardless of the outcome, this moment will pass.

I said I wasn't happy about them meeting up, he said it probably wouldn't happen anyway but even if it did it was just a friend helping another friend

Yeah he would be so understanding if it was you contacting an old flame. Think about it.

OP what sort of stuff do you post on FB? What can she see of your life?

Good point.

My friend put a group selfie of herself dp and children all laughing at Christmas time.
( it got back this had given the friend a bit of a reality check.)

Men seemed to think as long as there is no sex involved they haven't crossed the line.

Men compartmentalise - out of sight out of mind.

It's quite possible you're thinking about 'her' more than he is.

If she sees phots of the happy, loving family, that reading between the lines you seemed to be, friend may think twice about using your dh as her emotional crutch and move on to someone else.

And if dh stamps his feet about this, just ignore him.
He'll get over it.

OP, I know totally where you are coming from. My h had an EA that I found out by chance a couple of years ago. I found stuff he had written down songs/poems and it was obvious who it was about. This happened around 12 years ago, someone very young who did bits of work for us and lived across the road. She wasn’t a friend of mine on FB but I sent a friend request when I found out and before I confronted H, by that I could see he was commenting on most of her posts for years and lots of ‘must meet up when you are back’ as she now lived overseas.— even posted comments on my birthday. I don’t know if it was just a one sided infatuation (that’s what he told me) as ‘a lot ‘ of texting went on at the time(I went back to old bills I had kept and never looked at) . All I can say is that he is looking at things through rose glasses, however many people do seem to ‘fixate’ when life gets a bit humdrum and they like the buzz. I would put yourself in a less vulnerable position by getting work and keep a big eye on this without pushing it, if you push it, he will hide it and it’s better to know. I think he is a total twat to risk things but people can and do for all kinds of mental reasons , even when they still love their partner too. A big hug, it’s horrible to suddenly feel like the consolation prize and that’s how I felt!! I know my H is very sorry and realises what a dick he was but sometimes no matter how sorry someone is it simply kills that feeling of ‘special’

OP if you're concerned about talking to him perhaps you could first write a letter or email setting out your concerns and asking him to consider them before you talk? That way you can get your points across in a considered way and not be sidetracked by his defensiveness, and he we will be compelled to think and respond rather than blustering and trying to close you down. Seeing it set out in black and white - the disrespect, the gross sexual boasting, the refusal to address your hurt - might focus his mind a bit. I think I'd say you're going to seek some counselling to get your head around it too, just to underline what he's risking.

Men seemed to think as long as there is no sex involved they haven't crossed the line.

Men compartmentalise - out of sight out of mind.

It’s really not a case of ‘men’ being like this, Robin. Attributing his behaviour to being male gives him a free pass he really doesn’t deserve. Men are every bit as capable as women of knowing they’ve crossed a line, knowing they’re behaving appallingly. If OP’s DH was unaware he’d crossed a line he wouldn’t have lied to her about the BBJE comment. He’d have had no clue there was any reason to lie.

Some people (men and women) are selfish and care primarily about themselves. OP didn’t realise he DH was like this, which isn’t uncommon. How many posts do we read on this board where someone has been with their partner for years before uncovering a horrible secret, an affair or something they’ve been hiding :(

Lying I’m really not sure where you’re getting your interpretations from re ‘backpedaling’, I’ve got nowhere to pedal back from. I stand by everything I’ve said, you’re welcome to disagree and form your own opinions

@Shnitzel's email idea is a good one if you don't want to talk to him face to face. And it will make sure that you get your points across clearly.

Just remember though that he'll have time to think up a story and compose himself. You won't catch him off guard or be able to read his expressions and emotions.

Maybe hand him a letter and ask him to read it in front of you as a starting point of your discussion?