DH and OW's baby. Can he see the baby without seeing OW?

[Lovelytea]

Husband cheated and got somebody pregnant but i decided to work on forgiving him to keep my family together. Would it be possible for him to have a relationship with the baby without having direct contact with the OW?

He confessed what he'd done himself I suspect because she was going to tell me anyway. We split for 6 weeks whilst i decided how to proceed. During this time I had conversations with the OW and I do believe it was just a one night stand that culminated from an EA and that he was no longer in touch with her. He has been transparent ever since.

He bitterly regrets the affair and cut contact with her before he told me what they'd done. Eventually I agreed to stand by him and we're now going through counselling to work through the problems we were ignoring prior to the EA, of which there were a few.

After coming to terms with the reality of the situation I realise the baby needs it's father. As far as our family goes I'm prepared to facilitate a relationship between our DC and their half sibling, I'm prepared to have the baby over our house and for our DC to slowly get to know them. It will be painful but I'd never begrudge an innocent baby a relationship with its relatives on my watch.

The babies mother has told DH in a series of rambling texts that the baby will have nothing to do with our DC and she won't allow them to come to our house. She wants him to spend time at her house with her and the baby if he wants to know him and that our family are to have nothing to do with him or be involved in discussions.

Unfortunately that doesn't sit right with me because she's made it very clear she wants to be with DH. I've seen messages where she has said as much and she's been particularly vile about me and our DC. I don't think I should have to put up with such vitrol after what they've done and if anything it should be me lashing out which im not. Although he has been unfaithful she isn't entirely innocent and is a manipulative, spiteful and so herself.

She isn't interested in being civil and adult about the situation and has done nothing but cause trouble since it became apparent I'd be standing by him. She was expecting me to leave him and for him to go and be with her and the baby. He has said he wants no contact with her whatsoever but does want to see his baby which I think he should.

So my question is, is there any way he can have a relationship with his baby without having to have direct contact with her?

We're trying to repair after what he did and quite frankly I cannot stomach the thought of him spending any time alone with the woman. I don't want to break up my family so please don't tell me to LTB as for now I've decided to try to make it work. It's been a long and painful period of deliberation but for now I'm satisfied that I've chosen what's best for my family.

A relative dealing with hand overs? A contact centre perhaps? If he took her to court would they support his stance of not wanting to speak to her? Is that even possible?

The baby is 2 weeks old now and he's yet to meet him.

I think you would do better than you think without him. The reason you're suffering so badly with depression and anxiety is that your situation feels out of control. It's out of your control you cannot trust him and he's betrayed you, and you cannot police him however much you try. He might be able to reassure you in the moment, but it's superficial and as soon as he's not there, you feel as broken as ever. It's a sticking plaster over a gaping wound of his creation. The reason you're barely holding it together is that pain and dissonance. At least you would have control and be able to build on a solid foundation if you got rid.

Issy777 Your situation was the total opposite of the problem here though.
You didn’t want to speak to your babies dad. Op is concerned that the mother here wants to talk to her husband....and .it will be inevitable. You needed the baby to bond with it’s dad for it’s own benefit. It’s unclear what would be gained by traumatising this babies mother by insisting the father take it, especially into a house where the “ step mum” is also on the brink of a breakdown due to said baby.

Op.

You do need to speak to someone irl.

I think the realisation of the person who you used to be and who you are now will be painful.

She may want him back but the fact you can’t trust him to visit his son speaks volumes.

I don’t know as anyone knows if she is breast feeding or not but I wouldn’t hand my baby over to someone who lies to both of you about a lot.

The fact you see him as the person who picks you up but it is him that has bought you to this position.

The 2 are connected for the next 18 years . My worry is I don’t think you can handle that at all ( and no one can blame you ).

You really need to do what is best for you your emotional and mental health

I'm not sure whether I could handle it in years to come but I do know I can't handle it right now. There's a little boy over there without a dad and my two here who's lives as they know it have changed forever.

In an ideal world OW would meet somebody new, lose interest in DH, he could be present in his LO's life and I'd be able to trust him again safe in the knowledge she wouldn't try to tempt him back and everybody would live happily ever after. Sadly there's no happily ever after in this case, at least not that I can see right now.

I'm going to make an appointment with the GP tomorrow and get some help for my anxiety.

Worth getting a paternity test. You sound very reasonable and it is a hard situation. Seek counselling but just do why you are able to.

Ideally a middle ground can be found for hand overs of the child or chaperoned meetings (with a neutral party present). But if this is not possible when child is very young, would not feel too bad about it as it is unlikely that monthly or twice monthly contact for a couple of hours is gonna affect the baby that much when it cannot remember. He could still do letter or FaceTime contact and when the child is old enough to be ‘handed over’ could then have time with OH alone or your whole family. Worth speaking to a lawyer though as you wouldn’t want it to be interpreted that OH didn’t wish to see the child when it was small.

At 2 weeks old, the baby can't be separated from mom. So yes, visitation needs to be in her home with her present. Once breastfeeding is well established, hopefully she will be able to pump and he could take the baby out for brief periods of time. Probably not more than one feedings worth. Full days and overnights can't come until the baby is older.

Your self esteem is shot to hell and you must be exhausted after dealing with such a huge betrayal, you will be feeling needy, beaten down, vulnerable and desperate for a return(?) to feeling more secure.

Do you honestly feel he will cheat/leave you ONLY if she tempts him into it ?
Whats to stop you being constantly suspicious of every 'temptress' real or imagined ?

I hope he appreciates the impact of this on you because when you feel stronger the loss of trust/suspicion will still be there but the sense of desperation won't be.

I was fine before all of this, I was an upbeat outgoing person and now I'm an emotional wreck.

You would be fine, in time, if you left him. Infact, I’m sure you’d not once regret it. This situation will have you constantly living on your nerves, your dc will pick up on it and sense your unhappiness. You can’t always police or monitor who he’s with or what he’s doing, he’s already learnt that he can keep his family after cheating so there’s no deterrent. If it isn’t her it will be another woman.

If you’re not ready to leave now then by all means bide your time, but the kindest thing you could do for yourself would be to kick him out and save yourself from this toxic situation.

In an ideal world OW would meet somebody new, lose interest in DH, he could be present in his LO's life and I'd be able to trust him again safe in the knowledge she wouldn't try to tempt him back and everybody would live happily ever after

Oh god OP this is so immensely naive it breaks my heart. You really think she is the only problem here. The reality is he will fuck someone else again for sure, whether it’s her or not, because there have been zero consequences for him completely destroying your life. He knows he can get away with literally anything now.

Also, if you stay with him you are messing up your kids so much more badly than if you leave. It’s honestly bonkers to me that you can’t see this. YOU ARE DAMAGING THEM PERMANENTLY. STOP IT.

A normal man could be offered the wildest sex possible from an unbelievably gorgeous woman and turn it down because they are loyal to their partner/wife.

If you think that your h would have sex if ow offered it then the problem is with your h not the ow. If you don't or can't trust him, what's the point of your pain?

OP, As PP suggested, I think you should talk to someone IRL. Too many people on here are too quick to tell you this or that WILL happen. Or imply that staying is weak. Which is just not true. Some posts are down right patronising.

I know you probably don't feel it right now, but you know your DH better than anyone on here. He may well have learned his lesson and never cheat on you again. That does happen!

Speak to someone impartial. Get YOUR thoughts out, and go from there.

I wish you all the best. Whatever you decide "best" is

Dear op, I have read the thread and my heart is breaking for you.

I’ve thought long and hard for advice to give you, but I think this situation is impossible and someone is going to end up very hurt.

1. A paternity test is necessary imo
2. Set up child maintenance properly, so it is automatic and your DH doesn’t have that to communicate with the ow about.
3. Tbh, I think that ultimately your DH will have to make a choice. It may not be you who forces his hand, it may indeed be the ow.

I personally couldn’t stay with a man who did this to me, but ultimately if that is what you want, I don’t see why it should be you or your children who have to make sacrifices. Your husband may have to live with being a shit part time or not present dad...that’s his fault not yours. The ow may have a child who ends up with a shit part time or not present dad, but she knew that was a risk when she chose to sleep with a married man. I do feel for the new baby, but I also see that you have your own babies to think about, one who is also very small, so I’m not going to tell you that you should be the one bending here.

Honestly, your husband is looking a complete idiot in all of this and I don’t see how he is going to find a middle ground between two very young families and two women, one of whom had explicitly expressed she wants him back and wants her baby to have nothing to do with his existing family.

I think he will end up having to make a choice and what ever he decides, it’s not going to be fair for everyone. He’s made a mammouth mistake and he’s going to have to live with it. As are you. As is the ow. As are your children and as will the new baby. What a dickhead.

There’s nothing you can do op and I don’t blame you for not wanting your DH to go and play happy families with the ow. Maybe she will have to drag her newborn out of the house to see his dad somewhere public. I was taking my newborn out at two weeks old, shopping or to a coffee shop to meet friends, so it’s not that big a deal (I was breastfeeding) and quite frankly I think she also needs to take some responsibility for what she has done too. I think your family and your new baby should be the least inconvenienced in all of this.

I’ve only read your original post

It doesn’t matter how much OW wants your husband, if he truly loves you and wants to be with you he should be able to be in the same room as her without anything happening. If you don’t trust him then your marriage won’t work

Expecting him to have no contact or no physical meetings with her is unfair and unrealistic. As a newborn I don’t blame her for not allowing the baby over to your house. The baby needs it’s Mum. Therefore your husband needs to grow a pair and step up and go over to her house - if you can’t accept that happening then don’t be with him

He will need to be there at all times of hours. There will most likely be times where he needs to sleep there.

I understand your husband has been a twat and cheated on you - but you need to allow him to be a decent father for the baby. And unfortunately that means having plenty of contact with the OW, and having her in his life for at least the next 18 years.

I think you need a break, and it was said further up thread already.

I believe the only thing that actually matters in your life right now is you. You, as a mother, have to prioritise yourself. You need to ignore anyone else's baby, as they are prioritising themselves and their baby, which is exactly what you need to be doing.

You want to be the best you can and not fail your babies, so stick with putting yourself and your needs at the centre of your world. I hope your GP will support you well. If you keep prioritising yourself your world will come good, and you and your babies will be happy. If you try to prioritise someone else's baby you will come unstuck. You do realise, and have said, the precarious nature of your well-being that your 'd' H created.

This is your mantra, and your H should absolutely know the devastation he has wrought in your life, and by extension his own DC, as you cannot harm a DM and not their DC. He has caused risk to their world by doing this to you.

What all the adults should not do is cause further risk to another baby, and pushing that mother will cause risk to her baby.

To think, Izzy, that it's not harmful to remove a newborn from its mother at any point, but particularly close to birth is wrong thinking, and I have no idea why you prioritise the father over the mother and call anyone that does, 'sexist'.

Taking a baby from its DM is harmful to a newborn.

Also, all those thinking courts do the right thing, they don't. They don't prioritise properly at all. The previous 'SW' is an excellent case in point of how badly our fucked up system works in reality.

No, that 'SW' didn't put the DC front and centre at all, that's not unusual.

lovelytea make sure you do out yourself front and centre and take control of your life and your DC lives, this is the only way forward.

You don't have to agree to anything, and stay well away from OW or any of the arrangements to protect yourself. Surround yourself with your DC and immerse yourself in them and local mums and babies groups so you don't lose any of the precious early months with your own baby.

You have been extremely brave to post here.

I hope you get lots more support in RL, through your GP and baby groups. You being well and happy will change everything.

There is amazing support on the Samaritans 24 hr support line whenever you need a RL understanding person to talk to. If you prefer wait till a woman is available. Decide always what's good for you right now, and that can change if it changes.

Strength courage and a happy life to you Lovelytea

What a horrid situation you've been put into. No matter which way it goes, no one wins. Personally, this is his mess and I would want nothing to do with it. The OW and the baby is such a massive stress, I don't see why you should carry it. Just keep focussing on yourself and your children. Don't think to the future, it's a long way away and usually never ends up going how you imagine. Focus day to day and slowly building on yourself. You will come out on the other side eventually even if it doesn't feel like this right now.

"category12 Sun 30-Dec-18 21:30:56
I think it's disgusting to suggest the a parent should cut contact with a child."

This

I think sometimes, in prioritising baby, its very effective way of managing.

What is harmful is forcing, and refusing g to see other ways that benefit the baby.

Early days of mother and baby are vital for well-being of both, and they should be left alone to get established, and that's not disgusting. If there's a shit relationship going on that has no right in those early times to impact on that vital connection and well-being of mother and baby.

I’m not going to tell you to leave him as you clearly won’t. God willing in time you will find the strength and inner will to do it though. If you have tiny kiddies of your own though to deal with on top of this no wonder you are -literally- petrified.

Your DH has to arrange a paternity test pronto. Without absolute proof he’s baby’s father courts can’t do much.

His certainty over dates makes it much much more likely than not he was shagging her for way longer than once. I think he’s minimising meaning lying. Without absolute truth you can’t move on.

He's not a 'brilliant father' at all OP. He hasn't even bothered to meet his new baby because he doesn't like the (reasonable) 'conditions' set by the childs mother. Or is abiding by your 'rules'. Whichever it is.

He will be co-parenting this child with the OP for the next 18 years, though the reality is that he is 'tied' to the OW in some way pretty much forever. Same as he is with you.

That he hasn't bothered with the new baby yet says all I need to know about him and what this baby is in for :(

In an ideal world OW would meet somebody new, lose interest in DH, he could be present in his LO's life and I'd be able to trust him again safe in the knowledge she wouldn't try to tempt him back and everybody would live happily ever after. Sadly there's no happily ever after in this case, at least not that I can see right now.

But it's not all on her. He made this choice too, and she could move to a different continent and he could still cheat with another woman that shows up in his life.

You trusting him is not dependant on her interest in him, it's in his actions.

You say he takes over for the kids when you're a mess, what happened in the six weeks you split up? Did he actually leave and you got time alone to figure this out, or did he stay the whole time?

@Issy777

That's great for you, but it's not for everyone, the mother has provided access she is comfortable with, she should not be made to separate from her newborn son or forced into his home with his wife just because he cannot be trusted. It's not in the best interests of the child at all, and he's the one who is important in all of this.

Also, and don't take this personally, but I absolutely hate it when someone says 'it worked for my child and they're absolutely fine.'

A lot of parents say this, and it's not strictly true. My mother would say this about me, I'm not fine, at all, and I have quite a few MH issues.
Your child is only 11, hopefully she will be fine, but you cannot state for a fact her early life will not be something that will cause issues later on in her life.

You really do need to go to your gp for support 're your mental health. Focus on you and your kids and getting better for now. The rest can wait.

My partner does 50% of the parenting if not more (we split childcare leave 50:50.) That said, a baby needs only one person in the first years of life, to whom baby becomes attached. If there is more than one (according to attachment theory it can be 3 people max in the first 3 years of life a child can be attached to) the child will attribute distinct roles to these attachment figures and develop strong preferences, accordingly (e.g. person A is whom I need for consolation, person B is whom I need for dressing me.)
So the idea that the baby will have this strong need for the father (in this case) when there is clearly another primary carer does seem a bit overblown.

OP if I were you and wanted to stay (and I can see your reasons. Whatever you decide should be done with a level head, so staying at least for one year and see how things and particularly your feelings develop makes sense) I would back off from the OW-Baby situation.
I would tell DH that you are respectful of his wishes regarding the new Baby, as you have demonstrated. What he does with this is up to him, however you expect full transparency (which may or may not include you accepting preannounced unsupervised visits at OWs), and if he breaks this commitment to full transparency, all bets are off.
(Obviously, if DH forks over money you knowing is a matter of transparency, too, and you are very well justified in demanding seeing a paternity test before that happens, after all it is money that would otherwise go towards your family.)

How he solves this is not your responsibility. But demanding full transparency from him is your right.

What does his parents/ family say about all of this and do they even know they have a new grandchild/ nephew etc..

Op, I really do feel for you. It's a shitty shitty situation all round. You need lots of RL support to help you through this.

Bless you OP

As a previous poster said your DH needs to employ the services of a professional mediator. This will set up a healthy dynamic for the future, one that can be legally enforced through the family court if necessary.

I can understand why you have chosen the path you have and wish you well. Focus on you. Be kind to yourself. Encourage transparency from your DH which means finding ways of looking after yourself, both mentally and physically, first and foremost. However awful it is today for you, things will change, things will move forwards because they always do.

You are an articulate, capable and strong woman...there is no doubt about that. Make sure you prioritise your needs because you are absolutely worth it. Sending you strength and peace.