DH and OW's baby. Can he see the baby without seeing OW?

[Lovelytea]

Husband cheated and got somebody pregnant but i decided to work on forgiving him to keep my family together. Would it be possible for him to have a relationship with the baby without having direct contact with the OW?

He confessed what he'd done himself I suspect because she was going to tell me anyway. We split for 6 weeks whilst i decided how to proceed. During this time I had conversations with the OW and I do believe it was just a one night stand that culminated from an EA and that he was no longer in touch with her. He has been transparent ever since.

He bitterly regrets the affair and cut contact with her before he told me what they'd done. Eventually I agreed to stand by him and we're now going through counselling to work through the problems we were ignoring prior to the EA, of which there were a few.

After coming to terms with the reality of the situation I realise the baby needs it's father. As far as our family goes I'm prepared to facilitate a relationship between our DC and their half sibling, I'm prepared to have the baby over our house and for our DC to slowly get to know them. It will be painful but I'd never begrudge an innocent baby a relationship with its relatives on my watch.

The babies mother has told DH in a series of rambling texts that the baby will have nothing to do with our DC and she won't allow them to come to our house. She wants him to spend time at her house with her and the baby if he wants to know him and that our family are to have nothing to do with him or be involved in discussions.

Unfortunately that doesn't sit right with me because she's made it very clear she wants to be with DH. I've seen messages where she has said as much and she's been particularly vile about me and our DC. I don't think I should have to put up with such vitrol after what they've done and if anything it should be me lashing out which im not. Although he has been unfaithful she isn't entirely innocent and is a manipulative, spiteful and so herself.

She isn't interested in being civil and adult about the situation and has done nothing but cause trouble since it became apparent I'd be standing by him. She was expecting me to leave him and for him to go and be with her and the baby. He has said he wants no contact with her whatsoever but does want to see his baby which I think he should.

So my question is, is there any way he can have a relationship with his baby without having to have direct contact with her?

We're trying to repair after what he did and quite frankly I cannot stomach the thought of him spending any time alone with the woman. I don't want to break up my family so please don't tell me to LTB as for now I've decided to try to make it work. It's been a long and painful period of deliberation but for now I'm satisfied that I've chosen what's best for my family.

A relative dealing with hand overs? A contact centre perhaps? If he took her to court would they support his stance of not wanting to speak to her? Is that even possible?

The baby is 2 weeks old now and he's yet to meet him.

Think about what you want to happen next.

Don't be rushed into anything.

It is possible to forgive and to carry on. Tough - but possible. We all do things we should not - so understanding isn't impossible even though this is a very great wrong and has permanent consequences.

It is possible to separate and live apart. It will be tough but your children will cope. You will cope.

It depends on whether you can forgive this - the kind of man he is (usually) and the relationship you have together. Is what you have worth the fight?

I think the poster who said that the OW needs to play ball if she wants support and input from her child's father has a point. If he's not on the birth certificate and is not proven to be the father he does not need to visit or provide support in any way at this stage. It's a two way street and she also needs to consider what is best for her child rather than chasing a fictional family unit in the ashes of yours OP.

I don't know where my head will be at if I kick him out because then I've got the aftermath to deal with and it'll be another set of blows that my MH can't handle right now.

I can see how you must feel really trapped. Can I offer a different interpretation?

Right now, it's like you've got this gaping wound in your side, and it's got bits of branches sticking out. It's agony, and the prospect of trying to remove all the debris is terrifying.

You're kind of used to the pain from the branches, and you can keep muddling along for a little bit. And frankly, that seems preferable to the extra pain of removing them and having a horrible raw wound. I mean, what if it starts gushing blood everywhere? It seems stable right now, albeit hideously painful, so maybe it's best to just leave it alone.

Except until the debris has been taken out of your wound it cannot heal, and your pain will not get better. It will probably get worse because that's just leaving you at risk of infection. That painful, unpleasant period after it's cleaned out is necessary for it to ever heal. It's horrid, but pain is part of the healing process.

If you can, try and focus your gaze on a year afterwards, not the moment of dealing with the raw, bloodied mess of your wound. Think about how you would like to be able to live and feel (regardless of whether it feels possible now) and aim for that. Tiny little steps towards that. How will you feel a year from now if everything carries on like this, versus if you take control of your life? Is there a future where you can see any glimmers of hope when you look far enough forward at how your life could be?

I'm fairly confident when most people here say "leave him" they mean leave the relationship, not leave your home. You don't need to make any huge decisions right now, today. You don't need to uproot yourself out of your home overnight. You don't need to tell him to leave right this instant.

Some people do that, but most people take time to come to terms and work out in their mind what needs to be done as well as how to find the strength they need to see it out.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. I really am. I do think healing is possible for you, and I really hope you're able to keep going on the path towards that.

*To be completely honest I'm worried that if I leave I'll have a complete breakdown because I won't be able to oversee or maintain the very small piece of control I have left over his communications with her that i have whilst I'm with him.

I realise how toxic that sounds.

Most of the time I try not to think about the inevitable because when I do it makes me cry. I'm far from over it and have been deluding myself into fighting to keep my family together.*

Wow, this situation is completely toxic to all involved. You haven't once said you love him or he's a good person so want to stay, the only reasons are so you can police him or because leaving wouldn't be easy.

Was the relationship toxic before all of this? It just seems that it's really the policing him situation you want to stick around for.

Have you had any counselling on your own for this? Just for you to discuss how you can deal with all of this,because realistically, going forwards, for the rest of this child's life, you will not be able to control every interaction between his mother and father.

I really think you should have someone to talk to about this.

The innocent baby DC would benefit from financial support from and regular contact with their father, so if DH is a decent person that’s what he needs to arrange. That will inevitably mean regular contact with his former OW.

If due to his past actions you can’t handle that or trust him, end the relationship.

Such a good analogy anouk

Actually if OW wants child support all she has to do is contact the CMS.

He has openly said the child is his and he wants contact. The ow is already on her own. Frankly she doesn't have much to lose.

He risks losing contact with his youngest child and losing his existing family. I don't see him holding many cards tbh.

He deserves nothing anyway imo.

OP and OW are better off without him! He's an untrustworthy snake.

The baby is going to be your childrens baby brother or sister, they will have feelings of jealousy and they will eventually love their baby sibling, that may hurt you.
If you are still with him you cannot let on that the baby is a source of hurt or proof of daddys sordid betrayal,
Its him that cheated and it's unfair on the kids to make them feel they must 'choose' between loyalty to mum or dad, excitement over their sibling (daddys baby) is natural and they may pick up on resentment from you which isn't fair on top of all their other feelings about the baby.

Its a shit show that will need superhuman emotional control, the OW WILL move on but you will be stuck with dh and the resentment long afterwards.

First off - I think you're amazing, and even though you probably don't realise it you are very strong.
I think it's really good that you want him to have contact with his child.
Although I can see her point, I'm sure the majority of her reasoning is to try and get him to 'be with her' - but as a mum I couldn't hand over my very young baby either.
It's really difficult and something that I'm not sure you can get around if she's not willing to be accommodating.
It's such a shame he's not on the birth certificate.
Wish you lots of luck.

The new mother might be being difficult because it might seem to her that your prick of an H actually wants to take her baby away and, with your co-operation, bring it up as part of his existing family. Neither your H nor you seem to have any understanding of the fact that this is a new mother, a human being, with feelings which matter just as much as yours and his do.

Frankly, your best bet for the future is to wait a while then try to make friends with her. In the years to come, you and she will probably get along quite well and give each other mutual support, and allow your DC to build relationships with their half siblings - oh, and the future half siblings who come along when this wretched man impregnates more women after promising them that they are the One for him...

Op perhaps there are women so generous hearted that they could go along with this for years, or perhaps there are situations where there isnt so much blame, where everyone can move forward ( eg if the marriage had broken down for a while and both parties were seeing others but decided to reunite) .
I can only say that in your place i could not go along with this, i would be torn up with jealousy at every visit, every time he wasn’t spending time with my children because his other child needed him too, the money that we wouldn’t have as a family. It isn’t the same as a step child where you take on a man knowing he has existing children who need him.
I think this is an impossible situation to navigate . How old are your children now, the youngest is about 12 months ? The other ? Because it sounds as though they are too small to know yet, but they will need to know as they get older. It is just a long drawn out agony. I think you may be trying not to destroy your home life over one night of sex, one stupid mistake, and i can understand that but you really have no idea if that is true.
Have you seen all communication between your DH and the OW ?

Firstly, I'm so so sorry you've been put in this situation. What an utter shit.

She's the mother and unfortunately that means her rights automatically outweigh his. The fact he isn't even on the birth certificate but is contributing financially for a child whos parentage hasn't even been proven is a huge huge problem and needs to be addressed immediately!

1. He needs to get a solicitor and gain some legal guidance asap.
2. He needs to request a DNA test.
3. He needs to obtain a legal right to his child if proven to be his.
4. He needs to refrain from paying anything for child support until he has ascertained he is the father, (he could pay the money into a separate savings account so he isn't dealt a huge bill for backpayments, although this scenario would be unlikely as he isn't on the birth certificate at present, so from a legal view, not the child's parent, but from a moral standpoint, if he IS proven to be his child he can then ensure he's contributed fully) and then have the financial implications drawn up in a legally binding contract which will detail what parental access he is entitled to. (Granted this might not be much to begin with while baby is so young, especially if child is breastfed)
5. You need to ask yourself if you actually want to be with him, or if it's that you just don't want him to be with the other woman if you leave him. (she's won then hasn't she?) I can't imagine even wanting to be in the same room as some selfish twat who could happily put his wife and children through this?! He clearly only told you because she became pregnant so he had no choice. If she hadn't fallen pregnant, you'd have no idea this affair had ever taken place, and to be honest it would probably still be going on.

I don't buy the fact he is saying it was a one off. I think this happened one of two ways...

This woman was already sleeping with other men, found out she was pregnant and saw your husband as the best "option" (thinking he'd leave you and they'd ride off into the sunset together)....
Or they slept together on multiple occassions and she "accidently got pregnant" again thinking they'd then ride off into the sunset together.

If they only slept together the once how can your husband be so sure this baby is his? He (and you!) need definitive proof.
If he is the proven father, and he manages to legally rectify the birth certificate issues, I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with the fact that if he wants to see his son, it will be in the presence of the mother. No judge would ever order a newborn to be taken from its birth mother (even for short periods) to spend time with it's father. Once older yes, but not at this young age. And they're obviously going to have to have contact and communicate if they are to co parent effectively. I don't think you're ever going to be able to trust them together are you (rightly so) so you need to really ask yourself if this is the sort of life you want to live, panicking about what they're up to every time he goes to pick up his son etc. Sounds bloody tough, and I commend you for your strength in getting through this nightmare.

@AnoukSpirit amazing analogy right there

He should not have contact with the child. Such contact would not only increase his temptation to make contact with the other woman, but would also increase fear, anger, and resentment in his wife.

SandyY2K

As in previous similar threads, you views on this are rather extreme, and as a child who was born as the result of yet another married man who couldn't keep it his wife, I have suffered the consequences of no contact with a father.

The baby is a human being too, and it's unfair for your utter dismissal you show and propagate towards the children who are the result of an affair.
Your advise to the OP and other posters in the past border on advising psychological damage to a child in order to save a broken marriage.

It doesn't sit well with me.

He would also get contact with the baby without the OW being there. He's not a 'stranger' hmm he is the parent as much as the baby's Mum is. Sometimes people talk such shit on here without any knowledge base.

Is this aimed at me? Because I am literally a social worker so my knowledge base is quite extensive. The father is a stranger to the child, the child has never seen him before. Contact will NOT be ordered away from the mother unless there is a very good reason for it.

But you have no control. You have no control of he sees the ow, he cheated before and there's nothing to stop him doing it again. It might have been one night, but there was a lead up whwre he was betraying you with every text he sent.
She is going to be in your life, she will be a part of it forever and if you stay with him there's no escaping that. He has fucked up completely and you are running around trying to control the situation and you can't. You just can't. It must be exhausting and earth shatteringly heart breaking but he has done this. He has broken your family into shreds and he has made another human being with another woman who is he always going to be linked with.
I'd leave. I couldn't stand the thought of it and everytime he has contact I'd be thinking of the affair. Not the sex but the affair which led up to it.
He has betrayed you in the most awful way, only told you when he thought she was going to. You don't know what he has said about you in order to get into her bed. Why would she pass her baby over? Hell would freeze. Over before I did that.

You have been extremely reasonable.

1. Do not contact OW you do not know what she is recording. You also don't know what she could do or accuse him doing to her her child if he is in her home. She sounds determined.

2. If you're both determined that OW is no longer part of your lives then you approach this as a united front from the off. That means you, DH and solicitor.

3. Definitely get a paternity test. You don't know until you know. You're a fool if he skips this step.

4. Name on the birth certificate

5. only when the court says so - he hands over any money. If she goes through CAB they don't take into any consideration any financial contributions he has made cash or bank transfers. So just keep it to whatever the court decides.

This sounds harsh but you have to keep a paper trail and a timeline. But if you don't you could end up in a very big mess. This isn't necessarily about you being in control over her but stability for your family, sanity and quality of life. You are also shouldering a lot by yourself. You need real life support.

I won't say leave him because you have already said you don't want to.

You sound extremely generous, loving and responsible. I wish you the best outcome for this harsh situation.

Folks you have to wait for a registrar appointment, all 3 of mine were registered between 4-6 weeks after birth.
OW has not been playing an imaginary birth certificate power card, thats just how long it takes.

He will need to be in the room to sign as well and I doubt OP will be able to chaperone.

@Lovelytea I’m responding specifically to your post at 21:12 where you referred to knowing you’d be obsessing on an hourly basis about them. I haven’t been in this exact scenario, but my DD’s Dad was getting very close to a co-worker when my DD was only a couple of months old. I tried everything, threats, begging, being completely ‘ok’ with their friendship but it was making me ill, so in the end I asked him to leave for a few days to give us some space to think and he never came back. He moved in with her and her then GF(?!) and for months and months I tortured myself stalking them on social media, questioning friends, trying to get extra info from him, all of it. She was blatantly after him and would do all manner of things to show off their friendship and make it clear that she was his priority over me and DD. It was awful. I was constantly on edge worrying about what they were up to in case there was more to it. In the end they did actually get together and once that happened it actually became a lot easier to handle because I knew what the deal was. My mental health improved and I honestly started to not care. They only lasted a few months (and I think a lot of that was to prove me ‘wrong’).

What I’m trying to say is that I should have just let him get on with it to start with rather than clinging on. You will obsess over it, there’s no getting away from it, but you have a choice to have that be the case for a few months whilst you rebuild your life and start to get over him, or to have that feeling for the rest of your life whilst you try and keep up this pretence of being ok with it. It is hard, but honestly now I don’t feel anything but pity for the ‘OW’ in my situation, and me and him have a decent relationship. I honestly thought I’d never get over it but I did, and you will too.

I’d honestly pull off the plaster now. All strength to you

sorry not CAB i meant CMS!!

The court won't have anything to do with setting maintenance. Again, OW can just go to the CMS if she wants support.

OP, I really admire you. I also feel sorry for you; what a hideous situation he has put you in.

I notice that you seem to be doing a lot of the hard work (I mean the emotional labour as well as thinking about the practicalities) around this right now.

Maybe you should just set your conditions (no seeing the baby/OW alone) and then let him get along with organising the practicalities?

It might all fizzle out anyway if nothing can be agreed, and this way he gets to do the hard work which he has totally brought upon himself by getting himself into this situation. Plus, it's a chance for him to prove to you that he can be a man and sort it out and put you first.

@NotANotMan Hmm. I am also a social worker with extensive experience of private proceedings, and you're talking shit. I find that quite worrying actually.

I'm catching up with all the comments, thank you to everybody who's taken the time to post. I appreciate your kindness, advice and perspective.

In the back of my mind I'm worried that if I kick him out I'll have a complete emotional breakdown and won't be able to look after my DC. I appreciate that may sound insane to outsiders looking in, but I feel incredibly fragile at the moment and suffer with anxiety that is so debilitating at times it makes my question my capability as a parent if I were to go through anymore blows.

The irony is each day he's here I'm looking at the root cause of my problems, it's quite pathetic isn't it.