Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here! (Thread 3)

[ChangerOfNameAspieThread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Some resources from the threads so far:
www.theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/
I've probably missed some, but will try to gather them later and put in a comment for the next thread!

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

Personally (and this is nothing to do with ASD) - I would walk away, remove all your conversations from your phone, and block him.

Don't let anyone treat you like this - it's rude, obnoxious and immature. You're worth far more than this

@midcenturylegs, I know I'm worth more than this and that he's being immature, but I like him a lot which means it stings and I can't block and ignore him completely as we're in the same friendship group and otherwise get along well and doing that would only cause problems and raise questions from our friends.

Catching up with some responses to posts on the old thread and this one -

My DH has an Asperger sibling and nephews (diagnosed), and has always joked that he is on the spectrum himself. However it wasn’t until our DD was diagnosed with ASD (high functioning) that it dawned on me that what I often thought of as DH behaving like an arse was actually him having Aspergers. And that, specifically, he genuinely didn’t mean to be insulting/unkind/thoughtless and was actually often being well-meaning in his own —warped— way. I wanted him to be assessed so we could know for sure one way or other and I would know whether to make allowances ... and he could understand finally and get as he sees things differently from the mainstream, my view isn't always me being ridiculous but that if either of us was being leftfield it was him, and that as we are wired to see things differently, there isn’t a wrong or a right. DH however refused to get assessed, saying he didn’t have Aspergers/ASD as he’s done the online tests and they came up negative. This I can believe as he doesn’t have some of the more cliched symptoms and is very high functioning, but recently he has reluctantly agreed to look into it.

However doing my AIBU thread and then reading posts here as for me absolutely convinced he has Aspergers, and I’m fed up of his refusal to properly consider and reflect done of his problematic behaviour.

When I read some posts by @ChangerOfNameAspieThread on the last thread I genuinely did a double-take and considered whether I’d written her post and forgotten about it. The similarities re treatment if kids were startling:

1. He can block them out completely: DC sitting 1m from him, repeating "Daddy" getting increasingly louder and DH has no response. He literally has blocked the world out. DC get very very angry eventually. YES, ditto. My kids accept that he can do this and don’t get too annoyed, but that’s probably because most of the time I intervene and get his attention for them. He does it with me too, and like Changer I’ve also had someone outside notice this: years ago his NT brother, on seeing me calling DH’s name repeatedly when write beside him, said “he used to do that to me all the time when we were kids”. I have only just clocked this is an ASD trait.

1. DH angry with DC. Pulls them by the arm. DC cry and say "You're hurting me!". His response: "No I'm not." (he truly believes he's not hurt them, because he didn't intend to, therefore he can't have..). YES. This has caused huge issues, and is the one issue I’ve come closest to separating from him over (and have thrown him out temporarily due to this). He is now banned from grabbing the children’s arms as although he too thinks he is being gentle, the DC say he is not. He can get outraged that they and I say he is.

1. Denial of their reality in ANY conflict with them. Like point 2. If he doesn't have a problem with it, there's literally no problem. So DC asks him to get out of their room, he refuses. DC repeats it. He ignores (deliberately - not blocking out). It continues. DC gets increasingly upset but as DH doesn't believe he should be out of the room, he sees no reason why DC is upset, therefore they're wrong. There is no existence of the possibility that they have a right to something he doesn't think. Yep, although to a lesser degree as often he will on the surface respect their boundaries. But that’s because I’ve got it into him he has to over the years. Likewise with me. It’s so wearying.

Continuing my list with @Moffa ‘s:

1. the use of very mechanical language - YEP

1. Always having to be right, seen to be right, seen to be doing the right thing, being a very reasonable and right person - YEP again

1. having a ‘moody facial expression’ most of the time- YES!

And adding my own:

1. Bring very task-focused, to the exclusion often of social niceties. He can get frustrated if what he views as “random chat” interrupts his attempt to get us to focus on a task as a family.

1. (This has been mentioned before including by me but:) Looking furious when he apparently isn’t.

1. Walking out of the room when he’s ‘done’ with a conversation, or shutting down someone who is speaking by talking over them when he wants to move the conversation on.

10. Slow at processing things sometimes. Saying “I don’t understand” to what seem to me to be basic statements. He has trouble processing new information unless it’s worded in a very particular way.

11. Inability to easily ‘pivot’ and be flexible if we have to change plans. If he has planned to do something, he is very rigid about this even if things change and the plan isn’t ideal anymore. He can change tracks, but it takes a while.

12. Uses ridiculously emotive language when describing how he feels slighted despite being “logical and scientific”. Eg “hideous”, “deeply unpleasant”, “you think I’m completely shit and want me to die” (er, no, I just don’t like how you did not be thing to me or the kids). Also, the dramatic sighs he does when he’s apparently put upon

13. Emotionally withdraws for days if feeling wounded.

14. Will adapt to doing (or not doing ) certain things - like checking our back door was locked after repeatedly leaving it open - if asked to do so again and again over a period of at least 6 months (and typically it takes several years).

15. Struggled to think of solutions to things. Will say a situation “is impossible” and he has “no idea” what to do when no, it really isn’t impossible, not by some way.

I’ll stop there There are loads of good points about him, which I may share another day, including that unlike many here my DH is both very attentive practically and physically very affectionate to both me and our kids and our sex life is excellent. So on balance I’m not planning on leaving but am organising for us to see someone who specialises in ASD to help with our communication.

Learning I would be more cautious about saying just move on.

• As you are autistic yourself, can you establish if he is a meltdown phase or if he is just been immature/selfish/a twat?

I, personally, have find that very hard. For a long time, i have put some of H behaviour under the ‘autistic’ behaviour only to realise about a year ago that, when put under duress, he can actually be caring and careful about my needs (unlike what he has done for the last 10+ years)

• do you think he is likely to listen to your needs too an take them into account? So if you tell him you need him to answer messages from you, even if it’s more like a one word answer, will he do it?

• couod you cope with the way he is reacting when things are too much?

What about you? If/when you are into meltdown mode, how are you reacting and what do you need? Do you think you will be able to get that within that relationship?

From what I see around me, both partners been autistic ‘seem’ easy to manage than an ASD/NT one as the needs from both people are more similar. BUT it still needs to work for you whilst taking each other needs into account if that makes sense.

Will adapt to doing (or not doing ) certain things - like checking our back door was locked after repeatedly leaving it open - if asked to do so again and again over a period of at least 6 months (and typically it takes several years).

YY to that one too.
The big issue is the ‘several years’ there....
So telling H I was exhausted and can’t do anything physical (due to ME) took a couple of years to trickle down and for me to actually REALLY take into account as a matter of fact. That was several years if me feeling guilty and angry and his expectations of been able to do stuff I couldnt do (but that I would have been so happy to do....)

@QueenieIsLost, that's the problem. Even if I move on from wanting/considering a relationship with him, I will always be his friend. Even if he is occasionally a bit of a tit. Because regardless to what our relationship is I know that we both care for each other a lot and have a very intimate relationship.

From what I can gather (via his sisters message) he is somewhat freaking out about how he feels about me. Not helped by his younger brothers teasing (which he will have most likely brought on himself by winding him up) and his parents comments on how they both think I'm lovely and it was nice that I could spend time with them all when I visited before Christmas. He is freaking out and ready to snap because he has been at home for Christmas and he doesn't have a great relationship with his father. He is also most likely stressed about all of the commitments and visits he has been forced on since being home for Christmas and I know he has been busy meeting up with school friends and the like he's not seen in almost a year while his friends are on breaks from their unis and the like. He is also going to be very stressed about the 3-4 hr drive he has back to his home where he is working tomorrow.

But he is also reading and replying to messages from other friends. Which means he has either muted me (which is fine he does this from time to time when he is too overwhelmed to answer) but he usually gives the mutee warning that this is what he has done. So part of me knows it is in response to the stresses of the holiday, potentially feelings he doesn't know how to deal with and everything else. But part of me also thinks that he is being an inconsiderate and immature twat. I know that there will be no malicious or ill intent in his actions but that he will just not have thought about how they make others feel. That is one of his main faults tbh, he doesn't think before he speaks/acts. Knowing him, he'll feel crap knowing that I'm hurt by this but not understand why I am but I know that he would never deliberately hurt me. I think part of it is down to his immaturity as he and his siblings are babied to an extent by their mum as their dad kicks off when they're disrupting the house so it's easier for her to do it all. Plus he's just gone 21 so I think some immaturity is to be expected on his part tbh.

I think if I told him that I need him to respond in some way, even if it is just to say he's too busy to respond right now he would and that he would be hurt and kick himself for upsetting me. He can be acerbic with people sometimes but he really is quite sweet. Like when we've been together and I'm panicking because of the crowds arranging himself as a human shield without me even having to say I'm freaking out because he noticed and no one else we were with did. Comforting me when my family have being making things difficult in his own clumsy way and he is bizarrely ridiculously proud of anything that I do and holds me in higher esteem than he does anyone else. Like when I was visiting with a mutual friend, two of his other friends from home were visiting as well and he wasted no time in telling them how academic and clever I was and that I bake for him when I know I'm going to be seeing him. That and he also apparently told his friends and family some things about me before I got there as well, which was surprising and nice as he can be quite self absorbed.

I think I could cope with his withdrawal method of reaction well if I were there with him in person I'd just keep him topped up with cups of tea and take him some food but otherwise leave him too it. However the withdrawal via messages I need a warning of some sort just so I no not to worry too much, which I would be had I not known that he's at home and safe at the moment and so that I don't feel like I've upset or offended him somehow.

When I meltdown I rant and frenzy clean/tidy/sort or argue (which I am trying to break that habit) till I snap and cry and then I just want to be held awhile, while I cry and pull myself together. Then I have a really long, hot bath, change into comfy pjs and snuggle while watching tv or reading a book. Which I think he may be startled by the yelling first time it happens (I've managed to avoid meltdowns in front of friends) and the crying may throw him I doubt it would bother him and I already know he's fine with hugs/snuggling and would be happy to oblige in that regard.

I think above all what's causing most of the conflict between us right now is that, we don't know where we stand. We're between friendship and dating, unsure of how we feel ourselves let alone about how the other feels with no idea how to proceed.

We are also looking into going on holiday together again this summer with my best friend and hopefully our mutual friend or the guy she's currently seeing (depending on dates and costs) which should prove to be interesting.

I think part of the problem is also acknowledging what could lie ahead for me and what I'm likely to have to deal with in the future regarding his family if we do date. We're both strict Christians and don't date without the intent to marry, which also makes all of this alot bigger than it would be for most people.

@ThisWayDown I could have written both yours and @Moffa's threads.
Not sure what advice I can give.. 2019 was supposed to be the year of moving past my Aspie ex.

ThisWayDown's point 9 about walking away mid conversation is spot on for me.

And something else that I'm sure has a name but I don't know it.

• Conversation between DH and I about X.
• Natural pause, I've nothing more to add, he's not about to say anything so I start talking about next thing -Y.
• A DC joins in discussion Y.
• I carry on from DC on topic Y.
• DH replies. Usually starts with "and" or another conjunction, but I have no idea what he's talking about. It doesn't make sense. He's looking blankly at me. I rewind the discussion and realise he's talking about X!

• OR -

We're not talking about anything, maybe not even in the same room but he'll then walk in and start a conversation with "Yeah, well it's.." or "Yeah, so he said.." or "He thought it was odd but he didn't.." or "And.."
He's mid conversation, but I've not been included in any of it yet - it's been in his head.

It could sound kind of cute or funny but years of being expected to keep up with conversations that are in someone's head is tough!

There's something else about mechanical language. Say something happens at work in the week and he tells me about it. Often I'll get the same story a few times (after the first time, starting with "Yeah it was weird/funny.." or whatever already started conversation he's having) and the phrasing will be very similar if not the same, each time. Then we'll see his friends and he'll tell them the same story, again, almost word for word. And if we see multiple people, this really can be 8 times I hear the same story in 10 days and always very close phrasing.

And if he thinks it's funny, he'll laugh in the same place each time, like he's telling if off the cuff, or pause if it's something he wants someone to express shock at etc.

And I look a cow if I am looking anything other than amused/shocked/whatever too. Nobody realises I'm hearing the SAME story in the same phrasing almost daily! It happens quite a lot.

I do wonder if it's like a social security blanket, something he can hold onto for interaction purposes. It makes me sad to say it like that but it's what I see. He's an intelligent and kind man.

This way down

I could have totally written this all. DH has undiagnosed asd as does his sister and nephew. Nobody seems to mention it though... I suspect they don't know much about asd as it's very obvious.

He's a nightmare to live with but has many good qualities. But on a day to day level he is exactly the same, in each and every one of your points....

I am constantly reading articles for advice and support and we have been to sessions with relate. But wonder how sustainable this situation is, and I feel so sad about the relationship/ marriage / partnership I will never have and the communicative, responsive and interested dad, our kids won't ever have.

@midcenturylegs no advice needed, it’s just a relief to have the validation that these issues are (probably) traits and so aren’t actually personal. Because they have eroded my self-esteem and exhausted me. Like @QueenieIsLost I’ve had years of feeling anger and guilt ... and deep sadness.

And just mental exhaustion. The sheer amount of ‘emotional work’ I have had to do because he can’t see or accept these traits or understand how I or the kids can hold an alternative but equally valid and appropriate ... I have to explain and interpret again and again.

That’s the reason I’m personally unable to help you with your dilemma @LearningMySelfWorth - I’m worn out from working out the best way of communicating with with my ASD husband and daughter, and so have no bandwidth to think about an Asperger issue that is very different from the purpose of this thread. You might find it helpful to start your own thread in the main part of the board where you’ll find people who have ASD, rather then here where the target audience is women who are in a marriage or long-term relationship with a man with ASD, and who are mostly unhappy and worn down and likely to tell you to jump ship before you even board

X posts

@thehamsters sorry you krelstr to each and every one of my points. Tough, innit?

Changer My DH doesn’t do what you describe as such, although he does start most conversations with a conjunction, in his case it’s “well ...” Drives me bananas at times. He says it gives him time to think about what he’s going to say, as he mostly uses it in reply to me and the kids.

Perversely though my DH hates repetition and will deliberately avoid using the same phrasing or sometimes the same route places. Occasionally to a point where he’s being obtuse by doing it.

@ThisWayDown, I tried to start my own and was told to post here . Tbh at the moment, I'm probably going to jump ship and stay firmly on the land until I can see clear evidence that he's not being a selfish and immature git because I won't be treated any less than I deserve. I don't think that him being autistic gives him a pass to do what he wants. I mange to consider others in my day to day life, there is no reason why he can't spare two minutes to send a courtesy message explaining his silence, especially as I only went out of my way to message him because he asked me and the only reason I'm not worried about him yet is that I know from his sister that he's safe at home. This time next week however he'll be in a busy city alone after or while heading to a meltdown/shutdown.

Fair enough then re posting here @LearningMySelfWorth !

I think you're doing the right thing. And tbh, at the risk of generalising and sounding patronising, I suspect a lot of it may be his age and immaturity. Sounds reminiscent of a few guys I went out with or knew of at university who were that age, and they definitely all didn’t have ASD

@ThisWayDown, yeah I'm more likely to put it down to an age thing tbh. Autism won't help matters but it definitely isn't the entirety of the issue. I'm almost 24 and due to the way my family is was expected to grow up far quicker than normal which mean I've always been more mature than my peers anyway, which also wont help the differences in behaviour.

I don't think that him being autistic gives him a pass to do what he wants. I mange to consider others in my day to day life, there is no reason why he can't spare two minutes to send a courtesy message explaining his silence,

I would like to thank you for that.
So many times, advice I have read was about taking the issues of the autistic person into account and giving them lots of leeway. That, basically, it’s up to the NT person to make a lot of effort because they can’t help it. So any hurtful behaviour was out under the AS pile rather than the ArSe pile iyswim.
I’ve ended up doing all the work (physically or emotionally) forgetting that H could also be expected to do some of the work and that autism isn’t a free pass to any twatish behaviour. And amazingly, when I started to stand up for myself (rather than being an emotional pile of hurt), his behaviour changed at 180 degree.

... Autism isn’t a free pass to any twattish behaviour”

This is a constant MN refrain, closely related to people getting annoyed when you equate “twattish” behaviour as autism.

It’s not that B&W and that simplistic though. I know someone severely autistic, he’s not very verbal, and he needs 24hr care as he genuinely can’t contain or modify some of his behaviour like lashing out if feeling threatened. I think we’d all agree that hitting someone is wrong and normally twattish, but in this case it IS a symptom of his autism. If talking about ASD children, a good SENCO wouldn’t call some of their reactions bad behaviour, they’d say it was a reaction that could be anticipated.

We all are likely to accept that a severely autistic person with learning difficulties can’t help their destructive reactions (which we’d label bad behaviour in NT people). Yet funnily enough some MNers who purport to understand ASD seem to want everyone to think that behavioural issues in someone with ASD are due to them being a twat and not because they have ASD. While of course there are no doubt some people with ASD who never appear uncaring and too blunt, it’s disengenuinous to accept that ASD means someone is essentially focused on their own inner world and takes things literally and mechanically, and yet refuse to also accept that this can manifest as behaviour that appears rude and selfish.

The more “high functioning” the more control people with ASD have as a rule, but again it’s not that simple. I see it with both my DD and DH: the more tired, stressed, overwhelmed and in DD’s case hungry, the more “autistic” they behave (to put it inelegantly) as they’re less able to be flexible and/or control their emotions. I know this from personal experience myself as someone who also isn’t NT (but doesn’t have ASD).

I think that this is arguably the hardest thing about being in a relationship with someone with ASD: knowing the line between when to cut them slack - and how much - and when not to.

@QueenieIsLost and @ThisWayDown, I give leeway where it's due and do my best to be accommodating, but I think this time I'm giving him too much slack and letting him treat me poorly because things are difficult for him. When he isn't being like this with any of our friends, so clearly it's an issue with me right now and as it stands I'm not prepared to be his emotional punching bag so to speak. It's not a good way to keep friends.

Sounds like you’re doing the right thing Learning I wasn’t commenting on your situation in my last post btw, just pondering aloud on a general concept I find tricky and complicated and nuanced!

ThisWayDown Am in total agreement with your post just above about being an arse or behaviour being Aspergers related. It also adds to the emotional and mental burden because he gets to behave how he needs to (he can't help it) and I have to figure out whether he's being a dick (bad intentions) or doesn't mean it in the way it was expressed (neutral/good intentions).

There came a point for me when it no longer mattered why he was doing something, I just had nothing left of myself to use to survive, never mind figure out his intentions.

Because after you've worked out the intention, you then have to deal with your own feelings. Alone. "I'm feeling really rejected by X action, it really hurts, but I need to put that aside because he doesn't intend his action to make me feel bad". Aka: my feelings don't matter, his intention does.

And then get over the realisation that he doesn't intend the action to make me feel bad..because I didn't even feature in his thoughts at that time.

And no fruitful discussion can be had about it, because a) he didn't intend to do X, therefore it didn't happen and b) I didn't feature in his thoughts, therefore the action was entirely unrelated to me (according to him).

I ended up a husk husk a person. I spend my time fighting against that situation now. It also takes a lot of energy.

I remember saying to my ex that I couldn't see inside his head to see his motives so I would react based on his actions.

Got to the bottom of what he has done to upset DD.

Told her that he wished he had met his new wife first and married her not me, and yes he knew that meant he wouldn't have DD and her siblings but he would rather have new wife children.

How the fuck do I deal with that?

@ChangerofNameAspieThread yy to what you said. My DH is somewhat malleable and has agreed to us working with someone to help his communication with me and DD, as he does agree that some of the ways he responds is unacceptable. Having DD be diagnosed and is helping her come to terms with that and how we deal with her has perversely been a big help with how I deal with DH, and has given him a mirror on some of his own traits.

I won’t tolerate disrespect regardless of the intention, and me accepting that no he didn’t mean it that way at times has meant he’s less defensive and more able to listen to me when I explain how it was perceived.

But it is all bloody tiring and emotionally lonely at times and I have in the past been a husk too. So sorry you feel that way

@biffleddiffle Youe poor DD. If I was you I’d be sending him a blunt text explaining how that was perceived and how regardless of whether he genuinely feels like that, does he really want to be the sort of cock who makes his children feel unwanted and unloved?

@ThisWayDown, it sucks that he's being like this because I REALLY like him and it's really hard because all evidence suggests that he likes me too but he can't cope with how he's feeling in a mature way due to his age (autism included) and I don't know if I can cope with getting involved with that as right now he's hurting me without realising (or possibly caring) and I'm not sure I want to get involved any more than being his friend and think I should pull back right now to save myself the misery. If things change in the future, so be it but right now I can only support him so much because I need to also think about what is best for me and what I'm going through, and I hate that.

Learning I looked up your thread elsewhere on the board asking for advice and saw everyone was unanimous that you should run away from being involved. So much so that the one reference to this thread was someone telling you to read this thread and see the misery that awaits in the future should you get involved with him
Sadly, it’s so true. Don’t try and analyse him any further, save your energy and walk away.