Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here! (Thread 3)

[ChangerOfNameAspieThread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Some resources from the threads so far:
www.theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/
I've probably missed some, but will try to gather them later and put in a comment for the next thread!

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

Hi all I have asd and I know I'm difficult. I don't know why but I know I am because of the way people have reacted to what I think are normal things to do/say over they years 😀

So, I think if you make it clear from the thread titles you should all feel free to crack on and I, for one, respect your need to discuss how to make life easier for you.

I'm still feeling so sad this morning. Why didn't I see it all before I married him and why did i try so hard for so long?

Unless something is important to him it just isn't important. We have very little interaction now, but had some over the holidays and I could feel myself back in that anxious reactive state.

@bifflediffle

Unless something is important tohimit just isn't important.

This is so so true. And so bloody hard to live with me.

It's really hard as I tried really hard for years and years and kept thinking it must be me. Last night he said to me I didn't spoil him nor pamper. I said well neither have you for the past 15 years. On my reason you are noticing now is because you aren't receiving it. If you give, then you get. I'm not going to spoil or pamper you when you never do that for me. I don't know if he understood that but was sulking.

I don't really know how i can make him love me more or care for me more. My 6 year old shows me more care and love then he does. I don't know what to do to make things better. He really really wants to have children, although struggles with looking after a very easy going one for one full day.

On another point, do any of your DHs never really get happy or excited? Mine looks permenately grump and is very hard to make happy. Although he will say he is happy, he just never gets excited.

Anhedonia is a symptom of depression, which I'd linked to ASD. This is the inability to feel pleasure. My ex once told me: "You know I don't get excited but I should get excited about us and I don't!" Luckily, I have thick skin but it cut very deep.

I recognise the difficulty about facial expressions. I regularly have to tell DH he looks ferocious or angry when he says he's not.

I've had years of bafflement and frustration over him agreeing to do something (very simple) then not doing it, despite repeated reminders.

He could never explain but recently, with the help of the counsellor, we've been getting somewhere. He says he agrees to do things because he thinks he should be able to, then can't. Until recently he couldn't understand why he can't do things, so couldn't explain it and would just retreat behind 'don't know' if we tried to discuss it.

We've had a houseful of guests for the last three days and tbh I can't wait for them to go so that I can get back to concentrating on this and trying to get my head round it.

Marking my place here, had a fairly difficult evening with my ASH yesterday and currently totally exhausted. Will post more when I can.

My DH never really gets happy or excited @AspieT It's a notable part of his ASD diagnosis, which also features very low empathy, demand avoidance and alexithymia.

I'm still unsure if my dh is definitely on the spectrum, but seems to be so I'm watching the thread and will chip in when I can. It's incredibly helpful as his behaviour can exhaust me. I do wonder if I'm on the spectrum too and keen to join the dots up in this whole enigma!

This thread/these threads is for people who are partners of people with Aspergers.

Please don't come on and tell us how you think we should or shouldn't feel or that you're alarmed by how we express ourselves. We feel what we do and a very big part of our relationship problems arises from what we feel being discarded, rationalised away or straight ignored by our partner with Aspergers. If you read these threads as someone with Aspergers, instead of being defensive, or critical about our feelings, you could try to learn how we view the world. There are very few places where you could find such a Frank discussion about this issue from people in our shoes.

In the two full threads and this one so far, I've not come across someone who thinks their way of thinking is better than their partner, only different. In fact, part of the reason why relationship problems are lasting so long is because the non-Aspie partner (I don't like NT as a concept) has spent years paying close attention to her (usually) partner, taking his (usually) way of thinking above her own. Once she starts to look at their view points as equal, then she starts to hit a lot of problems (because one is generally - not always - rather inflexible).

Finally, there are very good reasons why Maxine Aston has been raised numerous times. If you are an Aspie partner of someone who does not have Aspergers, why not try to understand why so many of us understand exactly what is being described in Cassandra syndrome. And while is is not a DSM V diagnosis, you need to understand how the DSM is put together to see why it (and other conditions) will never be. And anyway. People are not reading about it and saying "Oh, that sounds good, I'll say I've got that just to upset my aspie partner and get sympathy from others." They're reading it, suddenly feeling less alone and generally not telling anybody else outside of this thread.

Please respect the reason this these threads exist, even if you disagree or don't like it. If you want to discuss your own Aspergers more, you can set up another support thread. We may lurk, but we are unlikely to try to educate you about our way of thinking, unless we're specifically asked of course (but why would you ask that?!).

Changer well said. Thank you

I saw this pop up on active earlier, I started the first thread, ...... six months later we are still negotiating a bloody exit and it is still very hard. H has a property in mind but hasn't done anything concrete about moving. I have been treating him like a lodger!

Biffle - I could have written everything you have posted. H was on a train recently and sent me 40 messages during the day, I reckon it would have filled 3 a4 pieces of paper. Denys everything, says I have destroyed everything and that I am the problem. Takes absolutely no responsibility for anything at all.

Very tough, oddly he has taken to kissing me on the forehead in the last couple of days and telling me he will always love me but can't live with me because I refuse to accept responsibility for destroying our marriage.

He will be in denial forever.

Hi everyone! Good (sort of!) to see a good gang of us here!

I just had to add in reply to previous posts:

1. the use of very mechanical language - YES!
2. Always having to be right, seen to be right, seen to be doing the right thing, being a very reasonable and right person - YES!
3. No affection (unless wanting sex) but shows caring in front of others (sometimes) - YES!
4. not hearing kids repeatedly saying his name - YES! I often have to shout at him & say “X is talking to you”!
5. having a ‘moody facial expression’ most of the time - YES!

My mum described him as ‘joyless’ over Christmas- which was a totally accurate description.

I don’t want this life with him in 5, 10, 20 years time. Help!

I am the adult daughter of a father with high functioning autism/aspergers and a NT mother. They are still together and have been married for around 50 years. I am 40s. I thought this might be interesting for those of you wanting a crystal ball to see in to the future!

Overall I'd say my sister and I have fared pretty well despite growing up in a fairly dysfunctional and abusive home. my mother is a victim of coercive control. horrible to see. But I always knew my father loved me and cared about me and that can go a long way. My sister and I were so desperate to leave home we started careers and families fairly young and that has been a good thing for both of us I think. We also both academically able which has been useful in terms of life chances/earnings etc. We have good relationships with both parents, saw them at Xmas etc, but i wouldn't say we were close. There are quite a few grandchildren which my parents enjoy. one of them is currently being investigated for ASD.

Mum has fared much less well. Basically a case study for Cassandra Syndrome. Over the years she has started to display some aspects of autism herself. I am sure this is the depersonalising effects of living with my father and not anything innate. I do sometimes feel I should get her out of the relationship as I know he can be physically violent as well as very controlling. however, I don't think she has the capacity to leave now - she thought about it when we were children. i also think she has made some crappy choices which have made her more vulnerable e.g. not working.

Dad I also feel sorry for though he benefits far more from his relationship with mum than vice versa. Full time housekeeper plus link with normality. His AS affects him very severely, especially the secondary mental health effects (OCD) which left him unable to work. he refuses all treatment for it. he has problems with hoarding and basic self care so if my mum left him now my sister and I would end up being his carers which I wouldn't be keen on.

I hope you don't mind my contribution but so much of what you are writing about I relate to strongly, even though it is my father and not a DH.

@SwearyInn Maxine Aston’s lack of suitable qualifications are an issue for me, but the amount of experience she has in meeting with and assisting couples where the man has Aspergers is huge and that gives her opinion some credence even if I were to disagree. I hadn’t heard of Cassandra Syndrome until this thread, but a little bit of googling shows the term wasn’t first invented or used by MA. She did seem to create the disorder Affective Deprivation Disorder though, which IMO seems career showboating and a way of sticking her name to an already established ‘condition’. For me, Cassandra Syndrome as a term and definition of symptoms is fine as is and it’s more appropriate to call it a syndrome than a disorder. I do completely relate to the symptoms.

As for “looking for answers”, the solution-focused nature of this wording makes me smile wryly. I suspect that most of us partners here are simply looking for validation that many of the issues in our relationships aren’t down to us being crazy and unreasonable but because of our partner’s neurological condition (which they can’t ultimately help).

We’re in a difficult and sensitive position because elsewhere on Mumsnet we’d be told that our partners are gaslighting us telling us things are our fault and we’re crazy and wrong, but in our cases there is a physiological reason for it and it will be very hard if impossible for our partners to change this. My own unprofessional opinion is that this is very much a male Aspie and female non-Aspir thing, because as a generalisation men tend to assume they’re right and women are much more likely to assume that they’re wrong.

Reading thread 2 and wanted to ask a question, delurking momentito

I don't know if PetalsOnTheStream is reading this but I read your post at 06/11/2018 20:42 on the 2nd thread about living with an Asperger's husband.

PetalsOnTheStream I was so impressed to read you had modified your own behaviour.

I am a great believer in positive thoughts and actions. I still am affected by OCD and have a bit of an eating disorder but saught help from a counsellor and am getting help.

My dd who is 14 was diagnosed ASD (high functioning, what was once called Asperger's) this year. I'd just appreciate any tips on how to help her, she has a lot on her plate and I love her to bits.

I am lerking on the third thread! So really do not want to derail but if Petals reads this, please do feel free to pm me. I had tried pming petals, no success. and I was just so impressed with those posts.

IMHO Maxine Aston is in same category as Andrew Wakefield (though thankfully with considerably less exposure). But I know many people still identify with and believe in what Wakefield said, so I should not be surprised that people believe Aston.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

I am glad you hope that, because I thought for a moment that you were going to deny and disregard what people are saying that they are experiencing.

I haven't read any Maxine Aston but however unscientific she is, it seems harsh to place her in the same category as Wakefield. He is a fraud and was struck off the medical register for fabricating data. Still, this isn't about him.

I've done years of therapy, trying to fix myself and be more tolerant, understanding & resilient. I'm certainly not blaming all our difficulties on DH and never have done. I've made huge shifts and adaptations over 25 years. But until the summer when I became unbearably distressed, to the point of breakdown, he didn't make any adaptations. And even now he has, we're talking about basic things like washing, shaving, saying hello to me when I come home.

The biggest concession is going to Relate, and I'm persevering to see where that will lead. We're also waiting for a diagnostic report and recommendations.

One reason we have got this far is that when I first read these threads, I recognised myself. Not my DH - in many ways he's quite unlike other posters' descriptions of their partners. But I'm like the other partners, I've been through the same stages that other people describe and felt the same loneliness. That's what first put me on the right diagnostic track for DH. I don't think it means I need a new diagnosis myself. If partners become depressed or anxious, for example, there are already diagnostic criteria for that.

I do think I've down-regulated my social life to accommodate him and I'm thinking about how to recover it.

Apart from the Relate counsellor, the assessing psychologist and DH I haven't said a word about this to anyone in RL. DH would not even allow me to contact his older brother for the assessment (the only person who could provide collateral about his childhood). So these threads are important to me & I hope we can keep them going. I looked at Different Together and AspergerPartner but frankly I found them too depressing to be any help.

@frequentlyviral thank you so much for your post. I think I could become your mum & it’s really helped me thinking about what I need to do. My children are both pre-school so hopefully their childhoods won’t be affected.

I am making an exit plan. My parents are helping me. Now I just need to have the conversation. I am nervous that H will get very angry & potentially violent. He has never hit me but he has hit/thrown things regularly.

I realise he cannot help the way his brain is wired but I cannot live my life like this.

I said, to him, when I split from my ex, “I can’t live the rest of my life like this”. Funny how we all feel the same.

(Merail follows)

I’ve been in a few relationships in the 11 years since I split from the ex. I’ve always kept them at arms length - subconsciously but looking back they were long distance or had complications that meant we didn’t just see each other, it ad to be arranged. I also became very sexually dominant. I think those were a protective mechanism.

Went out last night on a date with a man I first knew when I was at school. Proper date - just drinks - we laughed and laughed and I’m seeing him again. I didn’t feel the need to be dominant and I don’t seem to mind that he only lives 20 mins away. 😁😂. It was just so relaxed. The banter was great we just bounced off each other all night.

It was good for me - I’d had to interact with my ex over the holidays and am ashamed to say I reacted to him in exactly the ways I always did and had become quite anxious and snappy - not that I’m saying dateman will necessarily go anywhere but it was good to feel desired. And be around someone who was positive about me. (Sounds daft written down)

@Moffa, you asked me on the last thread why I’m still with my h.
The answer is I don’t really know. A degree of guilt perhaps because I don’t think he’d cope on his own, and because he’s not a bad man, just badly wired. And he has no idea how I feel, and even if I tell him he won’t accept that he’s at fault in any way. And also because I have become frequentlyviral’s mum, I’ve lost confidence and I’ve lost myself.
And I’m terrified of “having the conversation” because I really cannot predict how he’ll react, I guess he’ll be very shouty, which will make me cry.

I’m so glad for you that you’re getting an exit plan together. I have one and it’s great to know that I can get out if and when. Good luck to you.

frequentlyviral thanks for your experience.
It reassures me about my own two teenagers.
And confirms what I have been feeling is a consequence of that relationship with H - that the link/relationship between me and dc1 is getting thinner. That we aren’t as close as we used to be.

At least, being aware of that, I can now do something about that (or trying to - having a close relationship with my dcs has always been right in the top of my list so swing that fizzling down is heart breaking for me tbh. I hope it will get better)

As a general comment, loosing myself, nit knowing who I am. Becoming financially dependent on H. All of that I can relate to.
As well as needing to leave but feeling able to - because of no money, because I’m not british (would I stay in the uk, take the dcs with me, Leave the dc with H etc....) and because I have been ill with ME (so actually physically unable to look after the dcs full time. About a year ago, I was still struggling to spend a whole week on my own with them)

So my plan has been to leave in ‘stages’

• first looking after myself so I am physically better
• regaining some self confidence
• working towards some financial independence
• redefining my relationship woth H.

It’s a long term work. My plan spans over few years so that the dcs are out of school (both to not disrupt them too much and to have less financial pressure in my side)

Moffa "I am nervous that H will get very angry & potentially violent. He has never hit me but he has hit/thrown things regularly."

I realise he cannot help the way his brain is wired but I cannot live my life like this."

I really hope you do not mind my saying but however he is wired that is never an excuse for violence. Please take advice from Women's Aid if you have any concerns that he may become violent with you. Whatever the reason you need to protect yourself and document all/any unacceptable behaviour.

For example if you are worried about his behaviour with the kids when you are not around, then you need to get everything documented.

My friend left her abusive husband. The police were alerted where her mum lives because she went to stay at her mums. It just meant her mum's house was 'flagged' in some way.

Wishing everyone in the thread a happy New Year and a fresh start of one kind or another 🎇

Happy New Year everyone!
For those who want to make some brave choices I wish you the best of luck

I need some advice from you all. Do I walk away now or tell him how I feel.

The guy I fancy is autistic and he's currently ghosting me because he is freaking out and trying to process how he feels about me (according to his sister). Which I get feelings are overwhelming and scary. But it's a shitty thing to do and it makes me feel like crap knowing he's at least reading messages from others even if he's not responding and messaging them.

When we're together we talk nonstop and usually he messages and responds instantly whereas he has ignored me since the 26th. Which I understand in part is down to him being overwhelmed by me, overwhelmed by being at home and his difficult relationship with his family and partly because it's the first time in months that he's been able to see his old school and home friends. I also know that he may or may not be visiting with his grandparents with his mother from I think either the 30th till the 1st or 2nd, but I'm not sure. I know he was trying to convince his mum.

I've been told by our mutual friends and his family that he really likes me, and according to my best friend and our mutual friends we're very much on the same wavelength. Both autistic, annoyingly clever and academic, we have job offers from the same and similar companies (still at uni so graduate programmes), the same types of goals and outlooks, and very similar interests and follow the same religion while also being different enough to compliment each other.

I've also been told that I could do a lot worse as he is very attractive, very clever, he can be incredibly sweet and kind and he's clearly into me and clearly going to do well for himself. However I don't know if I can deal with the lack of communication and clear ignoring. He's either muted me (which I know he does sometimes to people when he can't cope with talking to them) or just ignoring me. Either way I think it's rather rude as it would only take him a second to message that he's having a hard time right now and can't reply to messages. I mean out of everyone he knows I'd understand.

I know the ambiguity of our relationship is probably freaking him out somewhat and I think he's probably also going to be rather freaked out if he's worked out how I feel about him (which is unlikely) and I know he's likely to have or be heading towards meltdown/shutdown because of the tension at home while also preparing to head back to work tomorrow.

I'm going to wait and see if he responds or even reads the message that I sent him (at his request, he asked me to message him and is now ignoring me which is also contributing to my annoyance) and see what the result of that is before I either withdraw somewhat, I can't withdraw completely because we have the same social circle and I do like being his friend but I would have to withdraw any other feelings I have towards him completely and tell him how I feel about how he's behaving or I wait and then tell him how I feel both about him and how he's behaving. Because either way I don't think it's right that I should have to stand for it and I am worthy of a basic response as a matter of respect. Especially when I've messaged him on his request.

I'm so confused and my head and heart hurt, there are other things to consider should I date him but for now this is the most pressing.