Why don't pepple like me?

[MadGoose]

That's it really. I know a lot of people, I meet a lot of people. I have 2 people who would fall under the category of being 'friends' but people generally don't like me.

And I don't know why.

I work almost full time; I have a couple of hobbies through which I meet a lot of people; I have 2 children and have met other parents through them over the years; I volunteer.

I get on with people initially and 'make friends' easily but then it doesn't take long for people to drift away and be unavailable if I suggest doing things, for example.

So, here I am a week before Christmas and I don't have a single night out to look forward to; or evening out; or party; or coffee; or even a "hey how are you doing?" text message to respond to.

I've got things planned but I'm doing them either with my children or on my own if they're at their dad's.

I know that there are parties; dinners; nights out; get together's happening because I can see them on fb. Now, some of these aren't with people I'm close to so wouldn't expect to be included but the fact I can see other people are doing them means they are happening for other people out there.

I have tickets to a NYE party at a pub that I'm going to with my 13 year old daughter. We won't know anyone else there. We'll have a great time, I'm sure, but I know that other people are spending the evening with their friends and/or families.

I have one friend who I've broached this with. She just told me that people do like me and left it at that. But I also haven't seen her for a couple of months. I know she is busy but during that time she has been out for coffee with other friends and met up with them for lunch etc. Yet, if I suggest anything, she is too busy or has too much work to do or she cancels at short notice.

It was the same when I was at school and throughout university.

I'm clearly getting something very wrong but I don't know what!

I suppose it just makes me feel a bit sad that, for whatever reason and in whatever way, I've been going around all my life just being 'off putting'.

That's a bit sad really.

The fact that you’ve had to learn the things you should and shouldn’t say (for NT people it’s just an instinctive/natural thing, not something that has to be learned), plus the fact that social interaction has lead you to be exhausted/worried afterwards would also indicate ASD.

It may be helpful for you to persue further as just recognising that your brain may work differently (not worse, just a different way) may help you to see that’s it’s not your fault or anything you are doing wrong. Just learning more about it can be helpful for many people.

Things like ASD groups for adults could then be an option. You may just meet someone who you completely ‘click’ with that enables you to develop a deeper friendship.

I’ve got a good friend with ASD who I met several years ago, she was open from the beginning in a ‘sorry if you think I’m sometimes weird but I’ve got ASD so can be a bit strange socially!haha’ type way. She’s fabulous, funny etc but does sometimes say/do things that are ‘off’, the fact I’ve known it’s ASD has been helpful to our friendship. Not saying it’s like this for everyone but she was diagnosed as an adult and says diagnosis has helped in a big way in terms of friendships and other things. She says she’s more relaxed as she knows it’s her ASD and the fact she’s more relaxed in herself makes it easier to establish firm friendships.

I do feel sad for you reading your posts as it sounds like you’re doing everything ‘right’ and you sound like you would make a lovely friend. Your camping trip in the woods sounds great fun.

Kardashian Thank you. That's really helpful.

I do know a little about it - it doesn't 'scare' me but I suppose it's not really something I've ever thought about in relation to myself.

I'm aware of something 'stupid' that I said the other week and I've been crucifying myself about it ever since. Someone at a hobby had shown me how to do something. I was practising it and, when I finished, I realised that everyone was watching me. In my discomfort at being looked at, I said something utterly ridiculous and a bit 'childish'. I think it was appropriate to say something. Just not what I said.

I don't feel very relaxed around other people.

Can I ask what kind of thing she says/does that is 'off'? Or is it not that obvious?

It night be that people's initial interest in you doesn't go further because to do that you need to go on a deeper level (if you want an actual frendship, not just someone to do things tohether with).

This involves not just listening and asking them about their life in general, but initiating to share about yours but something you feel may be relevant to them, but you say you mainly listen and are nice and attentive but avoid any controversy - this can get boring for them. If someone shows interest but doesn't either delve further emotionally, or doesn;t share own experiences, that person may feel there's nowhere further to go.

It's also, as someone already said, you being too careful of not offending/voicing any critical opinion (gently/jokingly) - but you need to do that as being goody too shoes without individual opinions can be also boring, and people wouldnt feel like opening up about their weaknesses. Female friendships aer often about that - and support.

I have the opposite problem - I'm not patient enough, and seem to either like someone a lot or quickly become critical of a new person (in my mind, not verbally) so either go off someone quickly, or try too hard. Not sure how to remedy lack of patience though. It's hard to see yourself very clearly, so I sympathise, OP.

sorry - far too many 'buts' in second paragraph ! I've modified it but didn't check what was there already

@SD1978 sorry to @ you but wasn't sure you were still following.

What you've described is exactly how I feel. I think the sad thing is that I have, on about 4 or 5 occasions, felt a 'connection' with someone but it still doesn't make any difference.

I have one friend who I am quite close to but he is married and so most of his time is, obviously, spent with his wife and children. His wife doesn't mind our friendship - she knows it's nothing more but she doesn't particularly like me. She'll be polite to me if I get round to see him and she's there but that's about all.

Sad thing is that I only know him through her. She and I were 'friends' to begin with but she 'lost interest' in me. I have tried to do things with her but my text messages were ignored and suggestions we went out for a drink were rebuffed so I just stopped trying in the end.

I’m trying to think of examples, things like in a group situation she might say ‘oh, Kardashian, did you and DH make up after your row?’ when to other people, it would be obvious that I didn’t want anyone else/everyone to know but she was just completely oblivious and would need it spelling out not to mention it. If I didn’t know she had ASD, I might think she was being a bit unkind/bitchy bringing it up infront of other people.

Or if you’re telling a story, she’ll sort of ask questions/want to know details that aren’t typical/relevant. So if it’s something you’ve told to a few people and then tell her, what she asks sort of throws you a bit, not in a ‘omg she’s so wierd’ type way but you just sort of half register that something’s not the ‘norm’.

It’s harder than I thought to think of actual examples but she’ll sometimes say something and then cringe and go ‘oh god, it’s my ASD again, just ignore me, haha’.

When we first met, she found it quite difficult to naturally talk about herself too. So she was very good at asking questions and obviously answering if you asked her something but didn’t find it particularly easy to talk about what she’d been up to/about her life that naturally fitted into the conversation. So it probably took longer than usual to develop into a deeper friendship. I felt she knew far more about my life/my problems/my history than I did about her.

We met after her diagnosis and she’s really well clued up, on some Facebook ASD groups now but didn’t have any proper friends until her late 30’s. She’s really ‘popular’ in terms of she knows everyone, gets on well with neighbous, etc but like you she said it was just acquaintance type friendships.

I think you mentioned you don’t like people in your home too as it’s your safe space. A lot of my friendships started with inviting people for coffee/back to mine after we’d met up somewhere etc, so I’m wondering if the ‘barrier’ of not liking people in your house ontop of other difficulties is making it even harder for you.
My friend says she struggled with this too and it used to give her anxiety thinking that she couldn’t ‘get away’ if she needed/wanted to. She said she also found it hard to know what was appropriate in terms of offering people drinks/food,etc and it was just a huge mental effort.

Sad thing is that I only know him through her. it’s not sad, everyone has to meet someone somewhere and lots of friendships are made through people introducing mutual acquaintances.

If it was your female friends husband who wasn’t that keen on you, you wouldn’t think anything of it. Don’t let that get in the way of continuing your friendship with him.

My friend says she struggled with this too and it used to give her anxiety thinking that she couldn’t ‘get away’ if she needed/wanted to. She said she also found it hard to know what was appropriate in terms of offering people drinks/food,etc and it was just a huge mental effort.

I understand all of that.

There are 3 people I let in my house. They are people who I trust to not 'roam' - so they won't follow me into the kitchen if I go to put the kettle on and they pretty much don't leave the chair they sit on when they arrive.

The anxiety I feel at having people in the house is huge. It feels 'chaotic'.

If it was your female friends husband who wasn’t that keen on you, you wouldn’t think anything of it

No, I wouldn't. But I suppose I just thought it would be nice to have a female friend that's all. And, the fact is, that she did like me at one point - or she wouldn't have invited me round to the extent that I got to know her husband well in the first place.

Yes, I do know what you're saying about the female friend. I just meant don’t let any of those things get in the way of your friendship with this man. It won’t stop you having a good female friend too if the opportunity arises in the future. I can understand why you feel sad about her no longer liking you though.

My friend said she has had to work on having people to her house but it has been a key factor in establishing proper friendships.
You would hate me coming though, I always ‘follow’ into the kitchen

I’d have a look at this OP as it really does look as if you could possibly be on the spectrum:

the-art-of-autism.com/females-and-aspergers-a-checklist/

One thing I notice with a woman I know with Aspergers is that she cant tell those little white lies which are so important in making and keeping friends and she’s also brutally honest instead of just keeping her thoughts to herself so what she says is sometimes shocking but she seems oblivious. She also misunderstands general chit chat and people saying “oh, look us up if you’re ever in Derby...”

posted too soon ...

She turned up in Derby with her husband and four children at tea time, without any notice at the house of someone she’d only met a few times.

Shes a lovely kind intelligent woman but Im always thinking ‘oh god, whats she going to say next...’. It makes for an uncomfortable experience when the whole point of social interaction is to put people at ease so they can relax and enjoy themselves.

I think most people who don't have "friends" are overlooking someone in their lives who is open to a friendship but not confident enough to make the move from acquaintance to friend.

They may be chubby, chavy, too loud, too quiet, smoke, drink too much, too old, too young, over employed, on the dole and/or love a gossip but they are also probably open and available for a friend.

I didn't start making friends until I started getting vulnerable. All my best friends have been forged in times of hardship, or people I initially overlooked (or overlooked me). I used to have "no friends" now they are plentiful

Because I'm real with people
I say "I'm struggling" "I'm lonely" "I'm bored" "I'm a bit crazy" "my house is a mess" "I am broke right now" "my kids are driving me mental" "I just spent the food shopping money on a vibrator" etc.

Ok maybe not the last one we all have secrets

Do you actively seek out groups and organisations to join? I am lucky in that I have a wide circle of friends but, thinking about it, all are people I have met through joint activities and when we meet it is loosely based around the activity. I very rarely go out with friends just for the sake of ‘going out’. A few of us do a volunteering activity together, I have a wide circle of friends through Church, I am a WI member, I’ve been on four different PTAs when my DS was at school - in all these groups, and more, I have made friends. We’ve moved around a lot so I have to make the effort to meet people.
I don’t think there’s anything special about me, and I certainly don’t watch the popular Sat night shows or use Facebook etc., in fact I am rather old fashioned but I do make the effort to get involved, particularly in local community type events & that seems to be a good way of meeting like minded people, some will just remain acquaintances but some will become friends.

You would hate me coming though, I always ‘follow’ into the kitchen

You wouldn't be invited back!

This is thought-provoking, OP.

I agree with others that you come across as eloquent, interesting, reflective and generally non-blaming of others.

You don't sound like you fall into any of the obvious categories of friendship pitfall (always talking about self, etc). It's also notable that you don't struggle initially, which cuts out a lot of the "instant likeability" factors we could postulate (not smiling enough, not asking enough questions, etc etc).

My two thoughts, for what they're worth, based on the general feeling I get from your posts:

1. Do you have prohibitively high standards of yourself and other people? E.g., you say you never bitch about people. I know a couple of people who say that, and, to be honest, this makes me feel quite bad about myself. I don't feel I can offload to them when needed, and although I like and respect them I don't choose to spend time with them very often. (NB I don't like bitchiness either, as a rule, but need to feel I can break the rules, too).
   You also seem to "do everything right", based on your posts.

2. How are you at showing vulnerability? I agree that early oversharing can be off-putting (to some), but, for me at least, a "next stage" part of friendship involves allowing others to see you're struggling, flawed, and can understand and tolerate their flaws too (see point 1).

Might be that neither of these applies, but it's just what came to mind, so in case they're of use....

I hope things get easier for you. You sound great.

pretty much cross-posted with UnKemped on her points 1&2!
people need to see behind your varoius dimensions, see some emotions - not just positive ones, and also be able to behave imperfectly a bit because the general chat can't carry you into a deeper friendship.
I think that you probably come across too steadily positive iykwim, as you explained it's understandable after your past experiences but maybe try to loosen up a bit/state how you feel as UnKemped said - just as an experiment, see what happens?

Thanks again.

I really do appreciate all the responses. Even where I'm saying, "but I already do that!"

I am careful about what I show and to whom. But I do show a range of emotions - obviously the more relaxed and comfortable I feel with people, the easier I find it but that doesn't seem to make a difference either. If anything, it makes it worse.

In the main, I try to be positive because no one wants to be around someone who is miserable/moaning.

I don't get angry and shout - but I do talk if I'm pissed off about something and a couple of people have seen me sad/upset. I have offloaded to people and feel I have made myself vulnerable - although i don't find it particularly easy or helpful to do so. There are also things that have happened in the past that I don't want to share because I worry that they would change how people view me (things that have happened to me rather than things I've done). But it does mean I'm not very open about my life before I knew them.

But there isn't really anyone I can go to when I need it. I tried reaching out when my marriage broke down and a couple of people were quite supportive but it didn't lead to any friendships and they withdrew when I no longer 'needed' them.

I suppose I'm not very good at making myself vulnerable because that's been a 'dangerous' thing in the past. My parents used to mock and humiliate me if I showed anything other than very 'neutral' emotions - even overly positive ones were derided. I am naturally a passionate person. I do experience a range of emotions but very much learnt not to show them. I suppose I am quite controlled and I feel quite anxious afterwards if I've shown someone more than I intended.

When I was in my early 20s, I was told by someone that I would never love anyone because I lacked the capacity for that depth of emotion.

I don't really know how to be any different.

I'm also aware that not having friends or family contact is a 'red flag' for relationships too. So it all starts to feel a bit hopeless and a bit vicious circle-y.

I think cat has good points. My best conversations bounce around and often go off topic as one thing leads to another with lots of interjecting and tangents. It isn't one person says something and then there is a response, its two people both bursting with things to say and interjecting - although obviously leaving pauses when appropriate.

It is sharing thoughts, sharing similar experiences, confiding but without burdening or expecting them to solve it. If you are open with them, they tend to be open back. Sympathising. Even if you don't have similar issues, you can empathise by remembering when... I often slightly exaggerate issues with myself/ my kids to get people feeling they are not alone with their problems or issues, Even if it isn't a problem for me there are experiences i can draw on or other peoples. This isn't gossiping as such. I might not name names or if I do it isn't done maliciously, but it creates common ground and builds foundations. With good friends we analyse people and situations. You might see that as gossip, but without maliciousness it's psychoanalysing situations and people which is interesting for most women. I wouldn't just listen to their tales without adding stuff from my own experiences/knowledge.

I think you are so conscious of doing things right, conversations don't just flow and bounce all over the place. It might help if you look into the ASD stuff.

Also look for similarly socially shy people. Maybe you are focusing on those positively charged people who genuinely don't have time.

i meet plenty of people who are perfectly nice but I don't have time for more friends. It's hard enough finding time for the long standing friendships that I have kept for years. I'd genuinely love to see more of many people, but life gets in the way. I prefer to spend the time I do have available where its easy and has developed over many years. It's no effort because it is so well established. That isn't any reflection on how nice other people are. There are some lovely people and you sound lovely too op.
Look for similarly "awkward" people who may be in a similar situation to yourself.

Also you say people you are initially friendly with, then go on to blank you sometimes. Do you keep issuing invitations that they are then put on a spot to refuse? Have you ever just tried saying "If you ever fancy a night out/doing x, then give me a shout"? To put the onus on them? It is embarrassing and awkward to have to decline invites so an open invite like this gives them an opportunity to say "lovely, will have to do that", even if they don't mean it.Then even if they don't contact you there is no awkwardness when you bump into them again. And several conversations later things might have developed enough to make them fancy seeing you - because there is no pressure/invites from you. You don't then come as across as desperate or needy.

Maybe you already do that. I'm just thinking how I've been put on the spot in the past and how that creates awkwardness.

"If you ever fancy a night out/doing x, then give me a shout"

That is how I do it. Sometimes I will have a specific free night and say, "Hi, I'm child free on X night. Do you fancy a catch up and something to eat?" or whatever.

Or I will leave it open ended. It makes no difference.

Conversations do bounce about - there are tangents all over the place. The last time I went to lunch with someone, we allocated and hour and a half because it was the first time we'd done it and ended up coming home 3 hours later saying what a lovely time we both had.

But still nothing...

I haven’t read the whole thread and obviously I don’t know you but I like a lot of people. Even people who can be a bit of a dickead sometimes, I’m not black and white and I will be friendly to everyone. I have some really nice friends.

But there is a few things that make me cautious of people and would make me not want to spend time with them, these may give you some pointers if you can relate to any of them...

Have tried it on with other men even though they’re married.

Seem very serious, stressy, have an unhappy face.

Talk about themselves constantly, you can’t get a word in edgeways.

Are really high energy and draining.

Boast and brag about their kids/house/car. I’m happy with my lot and don’t need to shout about it.

Are rude; walk away mid conversation, look past you when you’re talking to them etc

Have just met me and want to do something together practically every day, offer outlandish offers of help with the kids ie picking them up/dropping off/babysitting. Weird.

Those people; I’m polite to but I would not want to have a coffee with them.

Maybe that helps.

I tend to warm to people who are natural, funny, like a laugh at themselves and life, smiley and open faced.

That just doesn't make sense. You don't spend 3 hours if you haven't allocated it and aren't enjoying it. That leads back to the time/old friends, thing. Have you issued another open ended invite to her?

Unless it is my core group of friends (known for many years), I must admit that I prefer nights out that are arranged for lots of people. I enjoy seeing them all but probably wouldn't want/have time to spend with each one individually.

In fact in one group, we have an organiser who suggests a big night out occasionally which is always well attended and everyone is pleased that it is organised. I would never get round to initiating a get together though. Apathy rules! I think it's the same for a lot of people. If you prefer one on ones though, this group thing might not work. You have to have a group of busy people who want to meet up.

Boast and brag about their kids/house/car. I’m happy with my lot and don’t need to shout about it.

Yes, I can't be doing with that. I praise friends kids and maybe downplay my kids/our achievements or tell them in such a way that it doesn't make others feel inadequate.

From your OP you sound like a very busy person. Could it be that people just assume you’re going to be too busy to do anything?

I had this with a friend, each time I’d message to ask what she was up to she’d reply with her packed schedule for the week so then obviously it didn’t seem appropriate to respond with asking if she’s free to do something.