Why don't pepple like me?

[MadGoose]

That's it really. I know a lot of people, I meet a lot of people. I have 2 people who would fall under the category of being 'friends' but people generally don't like me.

And I don't know why.

I work almost full time; I have a couple of hobbies through which I meet a lot of people; I have 2 children and have met other parents through them over the years; I volunteer.

I get on with people initially and 'make friends' easily but then it doesn't take long for people to drift away and be unavailable if I suggest doing things, for example.

So, here I am a week before Christmas and I don't have a single night out to look forward to; or evening out; or party; or coffee; or even a "hey how are you doing?" text message to respond to.

I've got things planned but I'm doing them either with my children or on my own if they're at their dad's.

I know that there are parties; dinners; nights out; get together's happening because I can see them on fb. Now, some of these aren't with people I'm close to so wouldn't expect to be included but the fact I can see other people are doing them means they are happening for other people out there.

I have tickets to a NYE party at a pub that I'm going to with my 13 year old daughter. We won't know anyone else there. We'll have a great time, I'm sure, but I know that other people are spending the evening with their friends and/or families.

I have one friend who I've broached this with. She just told me that people do like me and left it at that. But I also haven't seen her for a couple of months. I know she is busy but during that time she has been out for coffee with other friends and met up with them for lunch etc. Yet, if I suggest anything, she is too busy or has too much work to do or she cancels at short notice.

It was the same when I was at school and throughout university.

I'm clearly getting something very wrong but I don't know what!

Agree with what RhubarbTea said. It sounds like you’re doing everything ‘right’ but you’re having to make a conscious effort to do it all rather than it coming naturally.
Like rhubarb says, people may subconsciously pick up on this and not quite know why but something may just seem a bit ‘off’ to them or possibly come across as ‘fake’/not genuine.

It may be worth looking into ASD as a possibility as women with ASD often manage to make initial friendships but struggle to maintain them and/or make a deeper friendship connection.

Truckinitlikethis I don't disagree with you.

But then that little voice in my head, having also read, "It is very hard making friends. People are tied up in their own lives and if they are in relationships they don't tend to seek companionship outside of these" says, "but why don't you have those things, Goose? Why aren't you up in your own life and where's your relationship..?"

But I’m much happier with one amazing mate rather than a bunch of assholes who don’t care.

I'd be quite happy with that too

RhubarbTea That was really interesting to read and I hadn't really considered it. I feel that I'm relaxed but maybe I'm not quite as relaxed as I think I am.

I am quite comfortable in my own company - when I'm on my own at home I'll watch a film; practise music; bake; spend time with the animals... I go to gigs on my own; lunch on my own; walks in the park on my own... and I genuinely enjoy it. But it would be nice to not always do them alone.

I don't feel like I have low self esteem - I've got a very well tuned zero tolerance for crappy behaviour; I don't worry about what other people think of me in the sense that I feel I need to try to be more 'acceptable' to them.

The message I got growing up was that I was a bit 'wrong'. My mum used to tell me that I should try to be "more like" the other girls if I wanted them to be friends with/like me. I didn't understand what she meant but she did get very exasperated. Her greatest fear was that I'd have no friends and be single and be a burden to her!

When I was 18 and left home for university, I remember thinking then that all I really wanted from the experience was a good girl friend. I made friends with a girl, who I eventually shared a flat with, but it was a horribly toxic friendship and I ended up doing a 'midnight flit' from the flat we shared because I was so scared of her.

NameChanger22 I am a single parent but this situation pre-dates that. It dates back to primary school. I recognise everything you're saying but I didn't really have any friends to lose though - the acquaintances I had remained more or less constant. That's the point. I had a hobby and had got chatting to one of the women about 2 months before my husband left. She and her family really took us under her wing. It wouldn't be overstating it to say that we wouldn't have got through it without them - we went camping together; spent evenings together; our children became best friends... I thought I'd finally found friends! I repaid in kind where I could - offers of babysitting; small gifts just to say "thank you". It wasn't all one way - I supported her too. I acknowledged that, at the worst of it, I probably had lent on them quite heavily and wanted them to know how much I appreciated it. She emphatically told me that that wasn't a problem.

But she completely ignores me now - she'll be polite if she sees me but that is all. There was no falling out. But the replies to texts stopped; and I've since learnt that she is someone who champions the underdog; rescuses lame ducks... that kind of thing. The support we got from her/them isn't because she liked me/us, it really is that she would have done it for anyone. And once we no longer needed her, she moved on.

I'm still quite friendly with her husband. She doesn't mind that, I don't think. But meeting up for the occasional pub lunch and chatting about music and work with someone else's husband isn't really the sort of friendship I need.

JohnnyBGood I do worry that I'm fundamentally unlikeable, yes. Not that I'm unapproachable; or hostile; or 'standoffish' or any of the things that might put people off me initially - that stage doesn't seem to be a problem. I do get talking to people; there will be coffee and lunches; or gigs; or a night in the pub... they might even happen a few times... but then they fizzle out. Every time. I obviously still know these people - I might see them at hobbies we do together, or bump into them at school events, or whatever but I can feel them withdrawing.

I suppose I have a number of acquiantances - places I can go to where I know plenty of people to say hello to, but no friends. No one who will text and say, "what are you up to tonight/at the weekend?" No one who will ask if I want to go out. No one who will be the one to suggest coffee/lunch. And it's not through lack of trying on my part.

My marriage ended because we married for the wrong reasons and he eventually met someone else. 7 years later, they are still together and clearly very well suited/happier than he and I were and I'm still on my own.

TheChristmasBear Interesting points;

1. I completely understand this. It just leads me to wonder where my one or two friends are. I've lived in the same area for 19 years and the same house for 12.

2. We weren't in any couple's circles to begin with. This is not a situation that has arisen since my husband left, for example, it's always been like this.

3. Well obviously I don't like everyone! But I do like many of the people I'm acquainted with and obviously like the ones I've attempted to generate friendships, or even just spend time, with.

This isn't a new situation - it's always been the same. I definitely understand myself and other people more now that I used to.

Sorry that is so long and rambling! The questions have really given me something to think about.

I really do think that there is something about me that is fundamentally offputting because even accounting for circumstances, it doesn't explain what it's always been this way.

It's probably because I ramble on

and 'pepple' is a really irritating typo

Agree about the 40s thing. I'm 40s and still sociable, but often the friends of mine who have time to go out are younger or older. In fact since my 20s some of my best friends for socialising (films/theatre/coffees) have been older single women in their 50s and now 60s. Also gay men without kids have tended to be more available for friendships. Not saying you can strategically target demographics as of course that's not how friendships work, but certainly helps to cast your net beyond your peers to people who are actively invested in maintaining froendships.

OP I feel exactly like you! I’m quite young and no kids so that isn’t even an excuse about why most of my friends must be so busy.
I think I’ve got to the point where I struggle to make the effort to keep in touch with people because it’s always initiated by me. I have only one or two friend who are ever the first to message me or suggest something. With everyone else I have to text them and badger them and feel like “what about me” it does get very demoralising. I think I’ve just accepted I’m not a social butterfly and must be very easily forgettable. It hurts but I have a lovely close family and a wondering DP and a couple of good friends. Everyone else I guess can just suit themselves. But I see alllll the time people saying about going out with this friend and off with that friend and basically having this huge inner circle and I start to think I must be the only weirdo with no “proper” friendship group. It does make me sad sometimes.
I’m sure it isn’t you! You sound lovely and very interesting!!

Thanks, pink.

I think if I were able to draw a demographic of my 'peers'/acquaintances though, you'd see why it's not a case of limiting them: professionals; labourers; people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s; varying music tastes; life choices; lifestyles; some are married/attached; some are single; some retired; some working full time; part time workers; small business owners... I don't place any restrictions on the people I meet.

Crossed that sounds very familiar! But we don't even have the family - there's just my children and me.

I suppose it's just that the times I am, and feel, most alone are the times other people spend with their friends and family because, at those times, there is no one who counts me in their number.

Why don't you ask those involved?

OMG NO! Don't do that! That will just freak people out and drive them further away. Only people who really don't like you or care for your feelings are going to tell you honestly anyway. So that will just depress you more.

Noone on the internet can tell you why such and such doesn't like you. That's their business.

True, but we can have a stab at guessing. There are usually a few fairly common reasons and I'll bet at least one of them applies at least somewhat.

1. Excessive shyness. Trying to have an equal, two way conversation can be like pulling teeth with some people. Expecting others to do all the work to keep you entertained while you contribute nothing can be very wearing for others.

2. The opposite of the above. Talking too much and never listening to anyone else.

3. Being a total Debbie Downer. Pessimists, Moaners and Criticisers are no fun to be around. If you have problems then it can't be helped but you need to be sensible about when/how often you bring them up in the company of others, or you'll just suck the joy out of every situation.

4. Over-sharing very personal stuff Don't do it. It freaks people out unless they know you very well.

5. Over-reliance on others, either emotionally, financially or practically. And being a bit of a CF when it comes to asking people for favours.

6. Not respecting boundaries and pushing the friendship too quickly in the early stages. Going from zero to 'OMFG she's texting me 10 times a day with inane chitchat just because I've had coffee with her twice.'

7. Being boring. Either having nothing to say, or being like a broken record on one topic.

8. Being too outspoken and opinionated and not judging when it might be inappropriate to blurt those opinions out.

9. Being known as a malicious gossip.

10. Having horrendous, badly behaved children and being totally oblivious to it.

There are a few to get started with and really think about. Some of them you can work on, some of them you really can't do much about and it's a shame, but you did ask.

I completely understand you OP. I feel excluded at times and feel that no matter where I go there's one person who takes a dislike to me!

I made a conscious effort in 2018 to become more charismatic. I was listening to Olivia Fox Cabane and Vanessa Edwards and Charisma on demand clips on you tube. I read a few books about the 'science' of likeability and popularity. I've become very interested in philosophy which helps me realise that some of it only matters because of ego (although, not all, we are hardwired to connect).

In 2018 I ''paid'' for a social life because nobody ever asked me anywhere. It didn't solve things but now I feel I've got more going on with my various hobby groups, one invite a month DOES make me feel ''included'' for longer. I do reciprocate invitations but as you said yourself I think my friends don't want to see me OFTEN.

Well, that came across rather nastily, Kirsty.

I'd like to add to your list - being undiagnosed but on the autistic spectrum - which can lead to really lovely, kind, wonderful people being misunderstood or not quite 'got' by those not on the spectrum, and people not on the spectrum being unwilling to make the mental effort to reach out and accept those slightly different from themselves.

@MadGoose yup with the not being counted in their numbers bit. It does make me feel sad at times especially at this time of year or around birthdays or special occasions... It makes you feel really quite lonely.
I hear people talking at work all the time about this party or that friend’s birthday. Or even just the girl I sit with going on about popping over to her friends for the evening. I also am not a big drinking and am pretty much teetotal these days (just don’t like drinking any more) and my god that makes me feel like even more of an outsider. When a lot of the social things revolve around “going out for a drink”.

Thanks, Kirsty. I'm quite happy to hear those things. And then I can reflect on how they apply (or not!) to me!

1. I'm not excessively shy. I'm not particularly outgoing, but I'm not shy either.

2. That's one of the things I'm conscious of so I'm very aware of it. I don't think I do that...

3. No. Definitely don't do that. There's nothing that is so bad in my current life that I need to. And definitely not a pessimist.

4. This is something that I struggle with, tbh. I do have some pretty traumatic stuff in my past that does still hang over into current life. I was previously accused of keeping people at a distance because I didn't want to share it. There are also things that, legally, I'm not allowed to talk about so I have no choice but to be vague on certain topics. Then someone told me that I need to share some of it because it's not my shame to carry and sometimes people don't understand some of my 'quirkier' aspects because they don't seem 'normal' to them. So I have a very brief abridged version that I will just say, "oh it's just that A, B, C and it means X, Y, Z". I don't carry it around with me and offload to anyone. There are about 3 people who know all of it and a few more who know a rough outline.

Although, I do think it's some of this stuff that could have made me fundamentally unlikeable/unloveable. I'm not miserable; I'm not negative; I don't bring people down; I do show and interest in others... but...

5. No. Don't do those.

6. I've been on the receiving end of that! So, if I do meet someone for lunch/coffee/whatever, I'll message when I get home to say thanks and I had a lovely time. They'll do the same. And that's pretty much it.

7. I was conscious of being 'boring' a few years ago when there was some really shit stuff going on - but I didn't talk about it. I asked about other people and showed an interest in their lives instead beause it was just nice to hear happiness, tbh.

8. I don't think I share opinions outside of conversations when we are discussing specific things. I'm certainly not judgemental of people I know or choices they make.

9. I never gossip and challenge people who do.

10. Definitely not that one. They're both teens now and have always been complimented on their behaviour.

Maybe it's just the 'hang over' from things that have happened. I can't see how I could improve it though. I'm not withdrawn; negative; I don't complain... I'm not one of those people who walks around with a 'face on' them waiting for someone to ask what the matter is; I get told I come across as self assured and confident generally. I'm not attention seeking; I'm neither too loud nor too quiet; I do withdraw a lot in larger groups...

But I look at people around me and they're not perfect either.

I do have one friend who lets everyone down by cancelling at the last minute or for 'petty' reasons and people do get cross with her but only because they want to see her, care about her and miss her.

I know people who are angry drunks but people still want to go out with them.

People who are accepted as manipulative liars but they still have friends.

People who are negative and moan about everything but they're always busy at social things.

People who are over-reliant on others but they are still popular...

OP I think you sound like a nice person and rather self depreciating.

Which would lead me to believe that you are not a difficult person to be around.

It's so difficult to pinpoint 'why' though. I do think that everyone is so damn busy these days and wrapped up in their own relationship/work/kids.

I am guilty of that and friendships have very much taken a back seat these days. My long standing friends are all spread out over the country and I see them rarely.

I made a couple of good friends through NCT and we still see each other fairly regularly, with and without kids, 4 yrs on. Although one of them can be unreliable and is a social butterfly type. I do feel that I am the back up friend a lot of the time which is annoying.

It sounds as if you are doing all of the right things and I'm sorry that you are finding it hard to forge friendships, it can be very hard.

That's it, Crossed "popping round to a friend's". I don't do that. If I'm ill, I can be in the house for a week and there's no one to ask how I am because there is no one who is aware...

ISdads It has been suggested previously actually. Some of the things my mum punished/mocked me for could have been autistic traits. But I don't know. It's one of the things that has made me so aware of things like over sharing; dominating conversations; and 'being boring' by only wanting to talk about one topic. I know I could be guilty of those things so I'm careful not to be.

I don't mind what Kirsty said. I'm pretty thick skinned and it gives me something to reflect on!

Cups I'm quite comfortable with at least one person taking a dislike to me - although I don't think that happens that often. I tend to be aware of it when they do - I don't seem to have any problem at all recognising when people don't like me!! It's the absence of people actively liking me or seeking me out that upsets me.

Thanks, Dying

IS I didn't mean to sound nasty, just honest. It's much easier as a stranger to be honest with someone when they ask the question the OP asks, though of course one can only speculate. I don't believe she'd get honesty from people she knows, who will obviously want to soften the blow a little. Honesty hurts to hear but it's better it's delivered by a stranger I think.

I also almost mentioned the ASD possibility as that could be the root cause of all the other things I've mentioned. It doesn't make you a bad person if you say yes to any of those things, just someone who struggles to hit the right spot some of the time or all of it.

Some things are easier to recognise in yourself with some honest self reflection - other things less so. Some things you can work on, and really should work on (bitchiness and pessimism for example). Other things you really can't work on and neither should you. They are a fundamental part of who you are. But knowing what those things might be and embracing them, will help be at peace with yourself, I think.

Better to work on finding the right fit with friends and partners than always needing to change something about yourself.

KirstyAllsopp - blimey, your list sounds like a bloody minefield. I probably do all of those things and I still have some friends somehow. I suppose I must seek out the less judgemental, accepting kind of people.

OP - I do think friends for life are rare and you have to keep making new ones to replace the ones you lose. And lots of people are very unreliable, it annoys me too, but you can't change people.

I'm sure we all do all or some of those things. Few of us are perfect. We are not robots. The question is about degree. Are we putting other people off by doing any of those things excessively.

@MadGoose
I'm sorry to hear you're feeling a bit low.

When we moved to the house we're in now we hosted a Christmas charity drinks & nibbles do one evening (like McMillan have their coffee mornings we did an evening one) we invited all the neighbours and organised games for the kids, raffles, put on some nibbles and wrote "bring a bottle" on our invites and it worked really well.

We started getting invites and have now made some good friends.

You could always host something at yours perhaps x

I don't think anything that Kirsty said was particularly harsh or unfair? She didn't say that the OP actually does any of those things, rather offering up suggestions?

I agree, we probably all do some of those things to a degree. I know that personally, I was hideous to be around for about 3-4 yrs because I was having major personal problems and then had crippling PND. It probably put a lot of people off me because I was so negative and angry all the time.

Mad Goose - how about talking it through with a Life coach? I am pretty sure this is their territory and I know a few sessions can be really helpful.

marking my place - will post properly as this is hauntingly familiar...

Better to work on finding the right fit with friends and partners than always needing to change something about yourself.

I agree with this too.

Bellabutterfly2016

I do struggle with having people around the house. Home feels 'safe' to me and I struggle with having that compromised. I'm quite open about it though and, whilst I know that some people think it's a bit 'odd', I'm not sure that's the issue. Or at least, I don't think it accounts for all of it.

I agree, we probably all do some of those things to a degree.

Yes, and I think I'm quite 'self aware' in that respect. It concerns me that maybe I do some of those things without being aware of it though. I do know that when things have been really bad, I could have done them but I try to limit my contact with other people if I don't think I can be good company. On the occasions I've tried, I've regretted it because I'm so quiet/feel so uncomfortable.

I definitely know I'm not pessimistic or bitchy and, if I hear someone else being run down in their absence, I will speak up.

I try to follow the principle of not saying something about someone that I wouldn't say to them.

Fair enough, Kirsty, if it wasn't meant horribly. Sorry, sometimes I am a bit oversensitive to people trying to put the boot in on mn.

(I actually don't think a lot of those things stop people having friends at all - the bitchy, gossipy, malicious ones always have hangers-on ... )

OP I can relate. But to be honest I'm not that bothered and I expect people find me quite aloof. I'm also a single parent and work full time, so I'm not about for coffee mornings or lunches. I'm definitely 'different' to most mums at school who are married and sahm or work a few hours a week with no pressure because their husband is breadwinner.

I don't get invited to parent parties etc which hurt at first but now I take no notice. I think some things people like to do with other couples, so being single is a reason to be excluded.

I've found a couple of other people who like me and I'm always friendly and kind, I invite them over for dinner or cinema every couple of months, I don't always get invited back though