Why don't pepple like me?

[MadGoose]

That's it really. I know a lot of people, I meet a lot of people. I have 2 people who would fall under the category of being 'friends' but people generally don't like me.

And I don't know why.

I work almost full time; I have a couple of hobbies through which I meet a lot of people; I have 2 children and have met other parents through them over the years; I volunteer.

I get on with people initially and 'make friends' easily but then it doesn't take long for people to drift away and be unavailable if I suggest doing things, for example.

So, here I am a week before Christmas and I don't have a single night out to look forward to; or evening out; or party; or coffee; or even a "hey how are you doing?" text message to respond to.

I've got things planned but I'm doing them either with my children or on my own if they're at their dad's.

I know that there are parties; dinners; nights out; get together's happening because I can see them on fb. Now, some of these aren't with people I'm close to so wouldn't expect to be included but the fact I can see other people are doing them means they are happening for other people out there.

I have tickets to a NYE party at a pub that I'm going to with my 13 year old daughter. We won't know anyone else there. We'll have a great time, I'm sure, but I know that other people are spending the evening with their friends and/or families.

I have one friend who I've broached this with. She just told me that people do like me and left it at that. But I also haven't seen her for a couple of months. I know she is busy but during that time she has been out for coffee with other friends and met up with them for lunch etc. Yet, if I suggest anything, she is too busy or has too much work to do or she cancels at short notice.

It was the same when I was at school and throughout university.

I'm clearly getting something very wrong but I don't know what!

Yes that's it SD1978 - be cool, be true to yourself. Your people will come.

I feel your pain OP, I often very much feel the way you do.

My problem is that I like to help people and I get taken advantage of. Once I no longer have a 'use' I get dropped/blocked/ignored. I'd rather have no friends than 'friends' that do this. I tried using the mummy apps to meet people, but often found they would chat for a while but then stop responding, or we'd meet for coffee and then I'd never hear from them again. There was even one mum who I met up with and continued to chat with who then blatantly ignored me at a mum and baby group!

Also, social media can be a terrible place! Everyone is posting pictures and status updates about how they are 'living their best life' but if you think about it logically, you didn't put your original post on FaceAche for all to see how shitty you feel, you came to MN for advice and support. Now, I would bet that there are a lot of people on your FaceAche who claim to be having the time of their lives who often feel just as shitty as you are for various reasons. Just because they don't post it, doesn't mean it's not happening! Can you imagine what it would be like if everyone posted every shitty thing that happened to them? You'd soon see that they were actually not living their best life at all!

Don't feel bad OP, feel sorry for the people who feel the need to make everyone think their lives are perfect when nothing could be further from the truth!

Much love

Have you tried joining groups on Facebook ? You can share hobbies, photos, there are groups for all sorts of things. Example of a friend that I originally met at work. The friend moved away and she had a hard time. I supported her via text. She returned to our town. I invited her to meet up several times for coffee and chat, but she made excuses. I moved away and she has been asking me to help her find a job in the original town. We still chat via text. Some people may consider this a strange relationship ? That's life, things change...

I am like this. Easy to like initially but find it hard to maintain long term friendships and have had a lot of people let me down or turn against me. I think it's because

1. I'm not very sociable and like spending my free time on my solo hobbies, so don't make much effort to arrange meetups etc
2. I have some strong opinions that I still don't know how to shut up about (nothing offensive or bigoted but perhaps unpopular)
3. I have BPD (probably the biggie! Though it's much more under control now than it was 15 years ago) so I don't really know how to pitch myself in terms of neediness/being distant, probably misjudge it both ways with different people, and have a fear of abandonment which means I sometimes distance myself from people before they do it to me. I find friendships a bit if a headfuck tbh.
4. I'm very close to my DH and my family, so that fulfils a lot of my social needs.

You sound very like me OP. I have struggled with friendships all my life and now, at the age of 48, I have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. Do you think you could possible have this? For me, it certainly explained everything, although it doesn't make it much better. When I look back at some social interaction I've had, I've unwittingly done a lot of things that have made other people uncomfortable and put people off, such as over-sharing with people I don't know very well. These things seem obvious in hindsight, but not at the time. Conversation does not come naturally to me, I have to make a real effort with it. I was told by the doctor that diagnosed me that in my efforts to make and maintain eye contact, (which doesn't come naturally to me), I now do the opposite and stare which I know is definitely offputting. I've realised that I have to "put on an act" and not be myself, as I don't really have a personality, I'm very robotic and can come across as cold or dull when I don't really think I am. The trouble is, people who are not on the spectrum place a lot of emphasis on non-verbal communication, such as gestures, tone of voice, etc. which autistic people are often not very good at. I've been told that I don't display any non-verbal communication, it is purely verbal. I'm pretty sure that my "act" comes across as just that and that in itself could be what puts people off. In short, you can't win. My advice would be to seek other people who are or who you suspect are on the autistic spectrum. I've recently joined a Meet-up group in my age range and am sure several people in the group are autistic. They feel like "my kind of people" and we all seem to get on and feel relaxed with each other. I now have people to go to events with and feel like a worthwhile person and also we all look out for each other which is lovely.

Thanks for all the replies.

It's really interesting to read other people's experiences as well as possible theories for why it might be the case.

I'm reading them all and processing and digesting...

I will respond but I'm a bit busy at the moment and am out at one of my hobbies tonight - a small group of likeminded people with whom I still find it difficult...

Interestingly, I can see a lot of myself in things other people are saying about themselves.

It's giving me a lot to think about. So thanks x

It's just occurred to me that the ability to make friends easily isn't as 'normal' as we think. Most people make friends when they're in new situations with others at the same life stage and no others that they already know; like learning a new language as a kid, you don't do it unless you can't fall back on the ones you're already familiar with. The reason it's harder as an adult is because people have already established their groups and are unconsciously resistant to newcomers. Motherhood also reduces your emotional energy so you feel less able to mingle comfortably with people you don't know.

That said, some people just have a talent for making friends wherever they go. They're not necessarily the 'nicest' or the wittiest or the most intelligent (too much overt intelligence can actually be a hindrance as every school pupil knows) but they have the ability to blend in. They tend not to admit to any controversial opinions and have a politician's knack for knowing what people want to hear. It has absolutely nothing to do with how good or likeable or unselfish you are, but moderate good looks, wealth and being 'someone' tends to help.

I‘ve just discovered myself and other female members of my family are aspie‘s. Females Aspies are good at learning social interaction so initially we start off ok but struggle with long term friendships. At Uni i found females too complicated so befriended males (often gay) and as a mum I don‘t think it’s a coincidence my two long term female friends have children with Aspergers. Females with Aspergers are actually kind and thoughtful loyal friends - it’s because we study female relationships to try and fit in and make an effort to be a good friend. Find females with Aspergers, find mums with children with Aspergers - you will find these groups are more understanding of social issues.

This video might be worth watching.

MadGoose I'm 50 next year and still haven't got any/many friends. Like you, if I make the effort, do the inviting, arrange dates etc then yes people come out but, also like you, I never seem to be the X they think of when they fancy a meet up! And if I don't arrange anything it doesn't happen!

I've come to the conclusion that part of the reason for my situation is because making and keeping friends is Hard Work. Just like any other relationship. And sometimes there just aren't enough hours in a day! And I'm lazy I guess - a few years ago I did something after work every night. But now, once I get home I just want to stay home.

If anyone works out the magic formula to having friends, please do share

I read the book 'How to Win Friends and influence People'.

It was really interesting and made me think about the way people interact with each other.

I am always observing how people behave and I've noticed that it's often the ones who try too hard that are the least popular. They can come across as needy. Those that exercised distance and detachment seemed to be the ones that people made more of an effort with. It appears that it is almost a challenge to impress those that don't feel the need to win others over. That way, if/when you do become friends with them, it makes you fell 'special'. Their recognition of you is like a prize, that you have earned their attention and respect.

I think people who try too hard, especially with demands on your time, can seem like too much hard work.

My advice would be:

With the friends you already have, make sure you are fun to be around, listen to them when they talk about themselves and ask questions.

Make yourself a bit unavailable so they see you as something more desirable (no one craves what is always there).

Don't be too nice to everyone. People will see your behaviour as shallow and not genuine. If you are overly nice with everyone, people will think you are not discerning enough and will not value your attention highly as it is too freely given.

I may be completely wrong but that's what my 'people watching' has led me to believe in my experiences.

I wouldn't recommend that book to try and solve your problem.

Yes I agree to a certain extent Johnny. It's actually quite cynical to manipulate people. Almost like tricking people into liking you.

However, I do think that people can adopt techniques that can initially make people warm to them while they get the confidence to establish friendships. Then, they get to know people, they can be themselves.

Not nice to think of social interaction as a game but I think it's something a lot of people do. I have had episodes of social anxiety and I think learning about what makes people tick helps in getting rid of that desire to 'people please' all the time. It can be wearing and does nothing for your self esteem in the long run.

I hope my post above didn't come across as cynical but I do believe that trying too hard can be self destructive if that makes sense?

I do believe that trying too hard can be self destructive if that makes sense?

I agree, but if you're socially not very skilled for whatever reason it makes it really hard to make/keep friends. Because if you're yourself you put people off with your lack of social skills, but if you try hard people pick up on that (maybe even subconciously) as disingenuous and that puts them off too.

I think you make good points Maddie and I was going to say something similar. OP, from what you've written, you sound self-conscious and like you're trying very hard to be what you think a good friend is - which may well come across as contrived. I think a lot of people are very aware when others aren't being relaxed or themselves. If someone is sitting there trying to figure out what to say, rather than just chatting naturally, it's very obvious.

As for your DM saying that she wished you were more like other girls - that's a really unkind thing to say to a DC - but it does make me wonder if might perhaps be on the spectrum. I know several autistic DC and they do come across as being different - sometimes it's not in a way you can put your finger on - but those DC often struggle socially and find it hard to make friends. Have you ever wondered if you might be autistic? There are online tests that give you a rough idea if you might possibly fit the criteria.

MadGoose I'm sat here in tears; you have described my life.
I am the same and have been since primary school. I am now 68 and in my entire life have had just two close friends. I have lots of acquaintances, but no close friends.

And ISdads thank you very much for that link - I can identify with some of those traits.

I've given this a fair amount of thought over the past few days...

I don't think I try to hard. I naturally don't enjoy gossiping about other peope - I've been on the receiving end of it and it was a horrific experience. That doesn't mean I don't ever speculate or talk about a friend's dilema to someone else who knows about it to gain a different perspective or for clarity. But it's never done maliciously or find humour at someone else's expense.

The feedback I get from people I do know is that I'm lovely; have a good sense of humour; am approachable; a bit quirky; good fun... Maybe I don't apply the same rules to my life that other people do and that means they don't 'recognise' me. If that makes sense.

I can't really explain it. A lot of women I know like to go for coffee and chat about holidays; their children; issues their adult children are having in their lives; their families... I don't enjoy the sort of holidays they do (we go camping; I don't like the sun; I like camping at small festivals - I don't like being away from home for more than 3 or 4 nights at a time; my children aren't having any issues (not that I would need to discuss anyway); I don't have a family - my dad is dead, I'm nc with my mum, I have a sibling I see a couple of times a year and have little contact with in between so I just don't have anything to contribute to those conversations, I suppose).

I do feel like I don't 'fit in'. I'm mid 40s and I understand the point someone made about 'finding your people' but this is where I come unstuck - I have an eclectic taste in music - so equally happy in a field at a folk festival; going to the Proms or pogoing at a punk gig. I think I said upthread that people I know/meet socially fall into a wide range - some of the people I know are highly educated professionals and some of them are tradespeople who left school without a single GCSE. Some enjoy fine wine and good food; others are quite happy with a pizza and a few pints. And everything in between. But in all of those people, I still don't fit in.

I don't think I'm 'needy' - I like a fair bit of time on my own and don't feel the need to be socially connected constantly - I don't text, email, message people constantly.

Someone upthread suggested male friends - tbh, I do have a few male friends and seem to get on more easily with men but they're often married/attached and that's sometimes difficult or they misinterpret 'friendship'.

I do ask questions, listen to the answers and then follow up.

It's hard to be unavailable when no one is inviting you anywhere...

So there is a night out planned over Christmas with one of my hobby groups. I'll be going to that. But that is literally my only night out over Christmas. For everyone else, it's something they've got to 'fit in' to their Christmas plans. For me, it's the only thing I have in the calendar.

I suppose it doesn't help that I don't have a partner/boyfriend.

But I find the similar happens in relationships too!

I suppose I always use the metaphor of a lighting a match. You light a match and get a sudden 'whoosh' of light, heat, energy which quickly fades and dies. That seems to be how people experience me. They like me quite a lot initially but then that interest fades just as quickly.

I asked one of my male friends since starting this thread for his opinon and he said that a lot of people don't get me because I don't do the things other people my age are doing. I slept out in the woods with a younger male friend earlier this year. We took a picnic, a blanket and some fairy lights and talked and slept in the woods under the stars. Apparently, that's not what 40something women do. He said that I just haven't 'grown up'. Not that I'm immature or irresponsible because I'm neither, just that I'm quite 'young' for my age. He's not the first person who's said that either, thinking about it. Although, I know other women a similar age to myself that I'd describe similarly and the match metaphor has applied to them too. So I don't know what the answer is.

A few people have asked about asperger's. I do have a couple of friends with asperger's but they don't really require any social contact so can go for months without seeing or hearing anything from them at all.

I suppose, I'm reading these replies and thinking, "I already do/don't do that..." so there hasn't been anything that immediately jumps out at me as a solution.

I suppose, I feel that there are people who are neutral towards me and people who actively 'dislike' me; but no one who actively 'likes' me and chooses or seeks to spend time with me.

I'm not a moaning whingebag in real life either!

If someone is sitting there trying to figure out what to say, rather than just chatting naturally, it's very obvious.

That does happen sometimes

I do find it difficult and it often doesn't come naturally.

Have you tried the Meet Up app? This has loads of groups and they have social events. My local one has lots of events over Christmas and you can choose whether to attend or not. It's great for those who feel 'friendless' or just that their friends are too busy. I use it for the cinema as I hate going alone!

I have looked at MeetUp groups previously but never been to one.

I'll try again. Thanks

teainthemorning

How about the Girl crew app?

A lot of what you said does incicate that ASD could be a possibility. Have you read about women/females with ASD and does it sound like it fits at all?

Things you describe like your mum saying you were ‘different’ to the other kids, you being able to make initial friendships but unable to build any of them into a deeper/more meaningful relationship, being ‘young’, not having mainstream tastes/insterests, having to think about what you say, social interaction seeming a bit forced and not natural to you, people going ‘off’ you, the fact this has been an issue your whole life. Probably more that I’ve missed but all these things added together does make it seem there is a possibility you may not be NT.

You sound incredibly perceptive and have obviously put a lot of thought into this. You also sound lovely

OP I can relate too as a single mum. As I got older, I have tried to be more social and that has brought friendships BUT they never last or get deeper. People tend to drift away once they get to know me, sad but true.

Im a introvert at heart and I have wondered if I have mild Aspergers as making friends has always been an issue for me since I was a child.

Kardashian yeah, when you put it all together like that... I see what you mean.

Thank you. I've had a long time to think about it!

I think the overriding memory I have of childhood/teenage friendships is that I met people as often as other people did but whereas they developed close friendships and a bit of fb stalking reveals that they are still in contact, if not close friends, 25 years later, it never got beyond the initial, superficial stage for me. Ever.

When I think back to those times, I can remember occasions when I was aware of having said or done the wrong thing - and I cringe when I think back to those times. I think I've learnt now the sort of things you should and shouldn't do and say but no, none of it comes particularly naturally to me.

At the worst times, when I was trying to be sociable in my 20s, a night out or social event would leave me sleepless for a week or so when I would lie awake at night worrying about things I'd said or done and having offended people.

My dad used to say of my mum, "she has the ability to bring out the worst in people" and she really did. She could agitate and irritate the most gentle natured person with the things she said - just by being herself. I was really worried about being like her and so, eventually, I just stopped trying. I spent probably 8 years not having any contact or making any social effort with anyone. I still feel slightly anxious at the advice to 'be yourself' because it hasn't served me very well so far!

It was only really when my husband and I split up that I started making an effort again socially. But again, I've seen new friendships and friendship groups form around me but I've been on the periphery and never been able to make it 'in'. And not all of those people are 'lovely' people. Some of them are self serving, rude and attention seeking. Some of them are downright nasty. And yet they are still more popular than me