Confronting DH about his sulking

[jamaisjedors]

To cut a long story short, we went away for the weekend for my birthday plus the anniversary of a family bereavement for me and DH gave me the silent treatment and sulked all day Saturday and pretty much all weekend.

We sat down and discussed our point of views about the weekend and I have expressed how lonely and hurt I felt. He has expressed that he felt I was ungrateful and ruined his weekend and failed to ask what was wrong with him.

It's been left there. I think he thinks that's that, done but I can't get past it and feel really distant from him.

This is not the first time he's done it, and actually I swore never to let him get away with it again, yet I'm still here.

I'm not perfect and this is what he will bring up if I confront him but I'm not sure how to bring it up without taking it all over again.

I'm thinking of leaving but maybe that's overdramatic, seems ridiculous to end a 20+ year relationship and shake up my kids lives for this - maybe I need to get a thicker skin?

Thanks again for the warning, I'm sorry you experienced that.

I'm preparing what to say (not in English so it's hard to get the right words for "abuse" stonewalling gaslighting) and steeling myself for the possible role he will put on.

I will not apologise for saying that, much as it's tempting to tone it down.

I remember my kids falling out and I insisted suggested that they gave each other a compliment instead resulting in 'You don't look as ugly as you did yesterday' and 'You don't smell as bad as you did yesterday'

Mediation doesn't work unless the participants want it to.

I think the fact that your DS was complaining quietly to you, out of H hearing is a very clear sign that they are not unaware of the issues with your DH. And they are learning, already, that they need to tiptoe around him to avoid any kind of blowup/sulk/emotional punishment that he may impose.

By making excuses for him, unfortunately you're also telling your children that it's okay for him to behave this way.

On the birthday, I think a better option would have been if you and DC all agreed it was DS birthday and his right to choose what to do, you should have told DH that you and DC were leaving. He could come with you, or make his own way home later. Then, sure, tell DS that unfortunately Daddy doesn't understand why this stuff is important (which is kind of true e- he clearly has no ability to put himself in anyone else's shoes), but at least your DS would know YOU have his back.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. I'm just making the point you can't hide his behaviour from them. They know. So all you can do is try to make sure they understand you are on their side.

Counselling is the place to dial it up not tone it down. Practice the words in the mirror. Have a thing you do like press your fingers together when you want to add qualifiers, apologies, break the silence etc.

It's like a CV. Whatever you say will be treated as having loads of spin on it because that's what everyone does. If you go in modestly you still get discounted as if you were talking up and as a result the reader thinks you are really quite shite.

I missed a whole page by mistake when I wrote my last post! Oops.

In terms of counselling, is it worth going back to the very thing that kicked all this off? The weekend away. His sulking because you weren't grateful enough. The list of things you did vs what he did. The emotional toll you were already experiencing in light of the anniversary? His admittance that he was sulking to punish you?

If you lay all that out, then see how he reacts? does he get defensive? Does he suddenly say that it didn't happen this way? What does the counsellor say or how does he/she encourage DH to respond?

It seems to me that keeping it specific, with real concrete facts to back up your issues, not only gives him less wriggle room, but allows you to see how he's going to attempt to gaslight you or turn things around?

That's the plan.

No worries about missing a page, it's useful to have your perspective on DS' birthday. I was tempted to take off home, but partly due to old reflexes, and partly because H was dependant on me for transport (we live rurally) I didn't. Wish I had been firmer now, it's just so ingrained in me not to complain, for fear of "ruining" things or being told to stop being selfish or ridiculous.

I do understand that. But things were ruined... for DS....?

I think, reading these threads on MN and now and again having conversations like this in real life, that's what makes me saddest. Because the man is the one who kicks off and makes it so hard, so much time is spent trying to placate him and not cause a scene that will "ruin" things, a lot is ruined anyway.

I see this with my SIL (who I'm always banging on about on here). She does things or doesn't do things to prevent her DP from having a meltdown but the result is that she's always stressed and unhappy and its not good for DS. It's understandable and an easy mistake to make.

My dad is a wonderful man, but I have clear memories of times in childhood where he could be a real wanker. And I can assure you, the rest of us tiptoeing around to prevent him having a meltdown weren't any more fun than if he HAD.

Well, H would say that they weren't ruined at all because Ds got lots of presents, had lunch out, had his choice of dinner and music in the evening and celebrated with friends the next day.

But his birthday definitely WOULD have been ruined if I had put my foot down and the DC had to witness a strop from H or if he had told DS or me he was being selfish or childish etc.

Not excusing my choice, I have admitted I was wrong to leave it/cover up but this is how H sees it and I am easily persuaded by his "reasonsableness".

Yeah but see the reaction if you tell any normal person a counsellor that DS's dad insisted on the whole family going shirt shopping for DH's shirts immediately after a birthday party and everyone was pissed off like normal people would but were to scared to say anything except in hissed whispers to each other. None of you felt able to have a normal conversation of "No we don't want to. Are you going to kick off if we don't?"

Even the bit where you all went to the shop is mad even if you genuinely didn't mind. Anyone else would be like "are you all on glue?"

I don’t have any advice for you but just wanted to say this all sounds really exhausting for you. And I don’t think happy relationships are meant to be this hard or involve so much work. I hope you can find the strength to put yourself first, regardless of what your H wants.

Actually, I can see where your H is coming from. which is why his argument is so compelling - it seems so reasonable and fair.

BUT.... 1) no one else wanted to go shirt shopping so whether or not he's right that it's not a big deal or not, the fact is that no one else felt this was an appropriate or fun use of time on a day that was supposed to be about birthday celebrations. 2). as Towel points out, there was no ability by you or the DC to simply say, "no, this really doesn't work for us. Can't we do this another day?" Or "you pop to the shop alone while we get another drink" or whatever. Which means that the way things work in your family is that H gets whatever he wants. So even in a situation where what he wants isn't unreasonable, no one can challenge him ever and that means there's never any need for him to consider whether it is or is not, in fact, reasonable.

This is why I think you should start the counselling with the example of the weekend away. It kicked of this whole process, making it relevant. Plus, there is NO way anyone can think that his behaviour was reasonable. There's no room for doubt. And it allows you to make your point without getting caught up in his justifying and trying to make your feelings irrelevant.

I think it is particularly telling that everyone in RL, whom you have told, has not been surprised or has mention psychological abuse.

People see through him more than you think.

He is teaching your children that their wishes aren't even worth considering, and that the damage he is causing to them is unimportant.

Children who have to be careful never to cross a parent will pay for it later on their lives. They have not learned how to behave reasonably to other people, and can never put their own needs first.

If you point out that your children were too afraid of his reaction to object even on their birthday, the counsellor will spot his controlling behaviour. Your partner may not care that his children are afraid of his behaviour- he will be proud that he can get his own way without lifting his voice.

Just a thought - whose idea was it to live out in the sticks?

Also in a foreign country?

I see where you are going with that springdaff but we chose together when we couldn't afford to live in town.

But "interestingly" when I recently brought up moving somewhere better connected, particularly for the DC, he shut the conversation down because the commute is not a problem for him.

What strikes me now is :

1. The refusal to discuss it at all
2. The fact that if it suits him, it must be fine for everyone else.

He said the reason the commute is getting to me is because I don't use the train like him. There would be no problem if I would just do the same as him.

Re: living abroad. It's not abroad for him.

I don't want to go into too much detail but I chose to move here and it is country I wanted to move to independently of him.

I've read your thread from start to finish today and started the thread feeling so anxious for you but can see how much stronger you are now. You're doing so well OP. You sound so much more sure of yourself than you did at the beginning. I hope tomorrow's couples session goes well, one way or another. Either he'll engage properly or you'll see he has no intention of changing. Good luck

I'd also like to add my voice to those saying that sugar coating their dad's behaviour will do your kids no favours. I know that the standard archive is not to speak ill of the other parent, but they have seen how he years you all and having someone they trust confirm that it's not ok is a huge step towards understanding boundaries. After all, they're such with him as a father even if (when?) you and he split, so they need to know that they can talk to you about his moods and selfishness and that you will support them if they want to challenge him.

Op, were you on the incompetent husbands thread a while back? You write very similarly to one of the posters on there.

Hi jamais, I've been following your thread too and wanted to add some virtual support. I have not been through the same thing but I did walk away from a relationship with a family member which was never going to change. I kept waiting and hoping and waiting and hoping that somehow this time would be different, they would actually give a shit about me, listen to me, want to be reasonable etc. And I sought validation from counsellors that they really were rubbish, as I always thought maybe just maybe they will suddenly realise how much their actions hurt me and want to change themselves. But of course they never did, and the counsellors could never tell me what to do. You might never find the validation/proof that gives you permission to actually listen to yourself, especially as other have said, if he twists things during joint therapy and makes you doubt yourself even more. Your OWN feelings, experiences, thoughts over 20 years are enough. Listen to yourself. Give your own feelings validation. You know the truth. Even if someone else can validate it you might always wonder if you described it right, doubt yourself again. You need to believe and listen to yourself. Wishing you strength and clarity.

@ Mrshoneyneedsanewhat no sorry, one of the things which has kept me with H is that he is definitely not incompetent.

He also points this out regularly if I dare to criticize anything else!

@InkyTrees and others, thanks again for the support, it is amazing to come back here day after day and get some amazingly wise and thoughtful advice and support.

I do feel like a different person since the beginning of the thread.

Last night H was muttering about how I didn't seem to want to do anything anymore with him. We had planned lunch today as a part of the "new start".

He asked if I still wanted to meet, and I said "I'm not sure". To which he said "that means you don't want to". So I said yes, you are right, I don't want to sit around making small talk and pretending everything is ok when we are going to counselling for the first time tonight.

He wanted to talk then but I didn't want to get into it at 10pm and reminded him that he had said he hated me bringing up stuff late at night.

I slept well (had been to yoga) and am repeating my "I am strong" motto to myself today.

I have also written out what I want to say in counselling tonight (and just spotted another promising looking house in the area I would like to live in). Feeling positive - but think the fall-out later might not be much fun!

Well done and good luck tonight!

Just spoke to my colleague who was very supportive and is prepared to "guarantee" me if/when I need to move out. This is a weight off my mind because everywhere seems to ask for an outside guarantor with a salary equivalent to 3x the rent and that is tough to find.

Will report back later if I can face it or over the weekend about our appointment. x

It also seems to me that he cannot bear for anyone else to have anything special, or a day that is about them, without compensating and having something for him too.

So your birthday weekend - he wanted to do something HE wanted on it

Your DS's birthday - he had had to sit through time focussed on someone else, so needed something for him to compensate for that, to make it bareable.

I hope it goes OK for you this evening and Monday.

I also thought that it doesnt matter if you 'do it to/are just as bad'

what you do is not relevent to what he does - one doesnt cancel the other out. It doesnt matter if you were an absolute pig shit to live with - its not an excuse to behave badly in a rush to the bottom.

If you dont like what he has done then thats an issue by itself and needs dealing with, or deciding that you just dont want that boundary crossed

To be honest, you dont even need any excuse whatsoever. You can leave a perfectly wonderful relationship if you want. Its up to you. Your choice. When I realsied that I didnt need to justify, I didnt need it to be 'that bad (it was), I didnt need a worse thing to happen than the really bad thing Id moved on from before, I could just finish it because I wanted to - well it was a relief and a breath of fresh air.