AIBU - Stag Do - Two Young DC's + Money Priorities

[WinterNightsByCandleLight]

• Hoping this works this time as it's my third attempt at posting this thread, only to keep discovering it doesn't actually post and mysteriously vanishes! -

Right, so, OH is going on a stag do in May from the Friday morning to the Monday evening. We have two young DC's who, by that time, will be 2.5yrs and 1.4yrs

Neither of our DC's sleep well at all and I have little to no hope of that drastically changing within 5 or so months. DC1 has been the world's worst sleeper from the get-go and DC2 has just started teething which of course, lasts for months on end and wreaks havoc on night wakings. I'd say that on an average night, each of them wake up anywhere between 3-6 times and that's not including the times that one wakes the other up (they share a room) and scream the place down in unison.

I'm not thrilled about having to do four days and three nights completely on my own while our DC's are still so young. A standard Mon-Fri week at home with them is difficult and draining enough, without missing out on the help at the weekend and having to somehow manage both DC's night wakings alone.
I told OH about my concerns, but he assured me that "I'll be okay!" - useful and constructive..

My second annoyance is coming from the financial side -

This trip will cost OH somewhere in the region of £500-£600 (transport, accommodation, food, activities etc), yet up until now OH has always bleated on about how rubbish he is at saving money. It's why we never do anything nice for our birthdays, anniversaries, valentines, no random 'date night' restaurant outings, we've had one trip away in the four years we've been together and that was two nights stay somewhere in England not overly far from where we live. We've never taken the kids on holiday or for a short break... you catch my drift!

When I questioned OH exactly how he's planning on saving over half a grand in what's in essence, not a huge amount of time, he told me "he's got it figured out, he'll manage, he'll be able to do it". So that leaves me thinking, hang on a minute, if he's capable of saving a relatively large lump sum, why don't we do nice things? Why don't we go out for birthday dinners, special occasions or take the kids to Butlins?!
My final kick in the teeth surrounding the cost of this trip, comes from the fact I've been wanting OH and I to get engaged for some time now (I know, I know, I could propose, but I'd like for him to be the one to get down on one knee!) yet I've always been told that he can't afford the ring that I picked out and fell in love with way back when we first started dating. We've spoken about marriage a lot and are both equally adamant that it's definitely in our future, so I've shown him - many a time - rings that are far, far cheaper than the first one I saw, in fact, they cost less than he'll be blowing on this stag do! But it seems that saving up for this trip is evidently more of a priority than the likes of an engagement ring, or a family break away, or doing nice things for the special occasions..

AIBU to be a bit begrudged by any of this?
I'm expecting Aunt Flo any day now so I know I'm being more cranky and sensitive than usual, but it's still niggling away at me!

Thank you if you've read this far, I hadn't intended to waffle so much

I have discussed and explained my concerns and it's done nothing other than cause him to ignore me for 24 hours.

Regarding the ring - it's the engagement/proposal that I want, knowing that we're taking the steps towards becoming husband and wife, having a marriage and becoming a 'proper' family - the ring is just a part of that process really. It could be a cheap one from Argos and I honestly wouldn't care. I've told him a few times that getting engaged doesn't mean we have to start plans right away. I know of plenty of people that got engaged then didn't actually get married until 4/5 years later.

You're right, Zen, it shouldn't be this hard. I'm planning on going back to work full time once the DC's start nursery and frankly, I can't wait! Being a SAHM to two DC's under 2 is crazy hard - and truthfully, if anyone needs a 4 day trip away it's me, but I won't be saying that to OH ha!

I'll just see how tomorrow goes. It's his niece's birthday party on Saturday which we're supposed to be going to and taking the DC's - unsure whether things between us will be resolved by then given how OH is acting at the mo, so I don't know whether I'll go along too and just pretend everything is fine so our bad vibe doesn't ruin a little girl's party, or stay at home while he goes with the DC's but feel equally bad for missing it!

Of course a ring and wedding doesn’t have to cost a lot, the fact he’s not enthused by the thought of marriage is because he’s not interested I’d find that insulting with two small kids.

If he put as much effort into giving you a break or having a wee family break I’d have no problem with him going,it’s the fact he puts in zero effort but yet he suddenly can find £500 for a stag, I’d also be wondering what will happen in said stag. He seems to get the fun whilst you get the drudge. His ignoring is also to tell you he matters more than you but stick to your guns. He needs to know his actions affect you.

OP - why are you with him? And more to the point, why do you want to get married to him?

I am going to be brutally honest with you.. he doesn’t want to have date nights with you, he doesn’t want to take you out and he doesn’t want to spend money on you

Harsh but it’s the truth. If he wanted to do any of those things then he would be doing them without you having to ask. he should want to do them - but he doesn’t.

So why do you want to get married to a man who doesn’t even wanna take you out for a meal?! Who doesn’t want to celebrate your anniversary?

He doesn’t want to marry you. He may have his suit chosen etc but that means absolutely nothing. If he wanted to marry you, he’d be saving towards a wedding. If he loved you and wanted to marry you, he’d want to take you out for meals etc - but he doesn’t

You’re at home looking after his kids, cooking his dinners and cleaning his house. Why would he marry you??

The best thing you could do is to leave him and eventually find a man who wants to do nice things with you. The second best thing you could do is to find a job and put the kids into childcare and make him pay half.
He might ‘write down’ his outgoings but it doesn’t mean you know anything at all! Why would he write it all down when he could simply look at bank statements? He writes down what he wants you to read.

Sorry OP, I think this is as good as this relationship will ever get. He doesn’t care enough to put the effort in - why would you want somebody like that?

I think you need to get a better idea of your finances.

Does his wage go into the joint account, and then money goes into each of your separate accounts? (So you can both see what's left after paying the bills)

Or does his wage go into his separate account, and then he transfers enough to the joint account to cover the bills? (So you have no idea how much he's got left over each month)

You say you have a separate account, but you don't work. So does he transfer some money to you each month?

😞 OP- I’m sorry but it’s true, he doesn’t want to do the things with you/the kids that you want him to. He wants to go on the stag do so that’s what he’s doing - and he’s making it happen!

It seems like a lot of women are falling into this ‘I’ve had his kids and am now annoyed he’s not proposing’ place. There are whole threads about it! But if he wanted to propose he would do/ would have done so you’re just beating a dead horse and losing self respect everytime you point it out to him again, or bring it up again! Stop!

You’re allowed to ask for what you want (amazing) but it’s not ok to keep pushing the matter as it could easily border on you cohersing him into something he’s not comfortable with!

Either accept the situation you’re in and accept him for exactly what he is- without this idea of ‘We’ve got kids why aren’t you marrying me?’ Or pack his bags and move on!

Yes he’s made you ‘promises’ and ‘lead you on’ but you’ve enabled this carrying on for 4 years without actually seeing any return or getting anything solid. I’m sorry but you’re not blameless in this situation! If you don’t like how he’s behaving - LEAVE

My DP said he wanted to settle down and have children. I told him marriage was important to me and that I wouldn’t stay in a relationship indefinitely without it. I told him no babies or houses until then! One year on and I’ve got a sparkly ring that took no pushing or reminding for!

I actually think you sound like you have matured a lot in this thread.

I totally understand your desire to be able to have little treats every now and then. It's good for relationships / family life. Obviously though, the size of the treats need to be representative of how much money you have.

It is really really really important to start putting money away in to savings and pensions. Please don't ever underestimate the importance of this!! Even in healthy relationships, saving money trumps holidays / gifts / wedding. Sacrifice now will pay off in the long run.

BUT, as Iv said, I understand the importance of little treats. It IS important! So let's say you can put £100 away a month. Put some in to long term savings, some in to pension (for BOTH of you) and some, say £5-10 away for the little treats that will help maintain happiness in the short term.

Finally, going by what you have said since trying to talk to him, I'm not sure this is a healthy relationship. You sound intelligent and reasonable, and like you want a healthy mature relationship. But, he does not I understand it's hard because you have kids together, but personally i would never stand for this kind of behaviour. My husband and I have had arguments of course, but we have never ever given one another the silent treatment, or let an argument go over the course of a few days. Even if it meant we had to stay up past bedtime to sort it out, we do it! Sometimes, if we haven't resolved the issue and it's getting reallyyy late, we agree to put a pin in it, and come back to it the next day at x time. Then, we go to bed not angry at each other, but also not totally affectionate of course. We know deep down we will come to a conclusion with this topic the next day, so we are happy to leave it for now.

Oh and one last thing, honestly you could get married at the registry office (for your own protection) and tell literally nobody. You won't even have to consider this your wedding anniversary. You can even still just refer to one another as boyfriend/girlfriend. Nothing in your day to day life has to change. But it provides you with security. You can then save for the wedding, and have your big day with everyone none the wiser. And if you are religious, you can still have a blessing ceremony, so it really is the exact same thing as a "normal" wedding.

I wish you all the best and I think you sound like you are trying to do right by your family

He's not making enough effort, he knows it and now you've called him on it, he's sulking. Do you really want to marry someone who doesn't treat you like a priority?

He's trying to manipulate you into apologising and never raising it again. Believe me i've spent my life seeing my parents in this cycle and it won't change. I really hope you don't cave and i would suggest you see a solicitor for legal advice.

He's punishing you and has no qualms about punishing his children alongside. You, and they, are last on his priority and care list.

I think he wants a step further I think he wants you to apologise and say of course it’s ok you can go

Agree he is acting predictably and like a child or someone very manipulating. Sulking is a form of punishment and causes disruption to the family and the expectation is you will break. Then he will be loving and apologetic. He will say he wants to try and do all the things you want blah blah. You will agree to the trip. Then back to square one. Do not go there. If you reconcile get something out of it.

He has yet to demonstrate that the family can afford this trip or anything above your essentials. The family finances are the first thing you need to get control of. Say you want to see his full income and all the family outgoing. Then agree what you spend money on and begin to build savings pots that get added to each month. They should be;

• children presents, Christmas and birthday only. Tell everyone you are saving and won’t be getting any other gifts.
• a reserve for incidentals, that is new clothes and shoes, family treats and household equipment. These can bite into a family budget and inhibit savings. A few quid every month means it is less of a pressure on the budget. Use charity shops when you can.
• a family holiday fund, save what you can afford. Might be 2-3 years before it is worth enough for a good trip.
• a wedding fund, a set amount that you can afford in an account in your name. This is also your security if you split.
• a personal allowance, what is left over. To be used for whatever you chose.

I would also think seriously about marrying him. We all have different reasons for this, love, status, convention and security are top of the list. From what you have written he is currently not demonstrating love. I would mentally set the bar on what this means to you. If doesn’t meet it, defer. There also isn’t a lot of security here. You rent and have no capital. I would hazard that you could be just as well off without him. Get a job regardless of things and start to see yourself as a breadwinner for your children who can give them the things they need and want. Status and convention are poor reasons to marry and if you examined your feelings and relationship that is where you are now.

My very strong advice. Do not respond to the sulking. Get to a calm place and act as normal. Tell you want to see the financials and go hunting for receipts, bank statements (get online access). Speak to him and do not get emotional. As to the neices birthday. Tell him to go with the kids and stay at home for a rest or to do the finances. Tell him she is not your family so it’s his job to go. Same for Christmas, spend it with your family. Make him see what this means. Scratch the “anniversary”. It’s meaningless at the moment especially as you want to be married. Be hard and rational about this. He won’t expect it and it will throw him. He could grow up.

If you want to marry, no more half measures until he proposes. Personally I would be planning to stay single and go it alone. But if it is what you want to do.

Thank you winterhappiness glad you agree that the little things do matter! I'm not expecting lavish meals in Michelin star restaurants, or an extravagant bouquet coupled with a pair of jimmy choo heels for our anniversary. I'd honestly be happy with him turning around and going "I've got my Mum to babysit for a couple hours this evening while we pop to the pub for one or two drinks and unwind a little" - that's really all it takes. There's even a restaurant at the end of our road that's offers deals on it's lovely Italian menu every Monday, I think it's something along the lines of 2 courses for 2 people is £20 - that'll more than do!

I too am a big one for wanting to get things sorted out as best we can, there and then. I don't see the point in dragging things out unnecessarily and the longer an argument or disagreement goes on for, the harder it is to come back from. If he was willing, I'd happily sit up for a few hours and hash everything out before we went to bed, but he'd rather avoid the conflict and shut down the conversation, leaving me more riled up and frustrated which obviously then rolls over to the following day/s.

Oh, I won't be caving whateverhappened. I'll admit I can sometimes be a little stubborn, but I believe I have nothing to apologise or grovel for this time. If something I said has rubbed him up the wrong way, it's because he knows I'm speaking the truth and isn't happy that I've brought it his to attention. Ah well. 8 hours til he's home. We'll see what tonight has in store for me!

Don't marry him, he's not worth it, he puts in zero effort, can't even take you out to a restaurant on your own street, but yet it's you looking after the kids most of the time and getting up through the night, why on earth do you think this is good enough to marry, he's no catch.

I still think you can’t just have the conversation. You are still assuming he’s being thoughtless and once you explain how you feel he will get it. He knows how you feel and he is angry you want to address it as the truth is he doesn’t care for you that much and he won’t prioritise you or the dc over his mates, but he doesn’t want to tell you that as he likes it this way where you assume he loves you and you both prioritise him.

YABU about the not wanting to parent the two children alone for a weekend. I'm sympathetic as I hate it when DH is away and we only have one (and one on the way!) but such is life. It's only a few nights. DH is away next weekend for 3 days/2 nights, and I'll be 29 weeks pregnant with a challenging almost 3 year old. It's just the way it is and I've had my share of weekends away!

YANBU about the financial side though, but I think it's a deeper issue than just the stag. You need to have a frank and open conversation about the kind of things you expect from life (eg meals out or weekends away), and how you both manage your finances so that you BOTH get to do things that you enjoy.

I know it's only 3 nights/4 days, but currently our DC's are the dictionary definition of terrible sleepers and I don't expect drastic improvements within a few months as it's always been like this. By 2am, I've already gone in to youngest DC about 4-5 times, and OH will have dealt with DC1 around 3 times too. From 2 onwards, it's anyone's guess as to what kind of night we'll have. I could be up every 20 minutes before finally giving in and bringing DC2 in to the lounge at 4am to start the day so that DC1 and OH can actually get a little sleep. I know that if the kids were as bad as they are at the moment, I'd feel absolutely awful about buggering off for 4 days and leaving OH to deal with it entirely on his own. But, that being said, I'm just going to have to grit my teeth and get on with it. And if none of us get any sleep, then so be it!

I tried having the honest and frank conversation the night before last, and OH has ignored me since. He said nothing during the conversation other than 'fine, I won't go' and stormed off to bed, yet not once did I hint that I don't want him to go. I told him to go and enjoy himself but that I don't understand why or how he is willing to save a large amount for a stag when things such as anniversaries are forgotten about to due their 'cost'.

Im digging my heels in and standing my ground with this one, though, as I know he's ignoring me because he wants me to run and apologise to him.

He is clearly showing you where his priorities lie and it’s with his own self closely followed by his friends. This is what he has likely always been like as well.

Is he really someone you would want to spend any more time on.

Presumably as well these children also have his surname rather than yours. Doing that just handed over more of your own power and control to him. He really does hold all the cards here and your position both financially and emotionally not just to say legally is poor, he knows that as well.

Sometimes it's good to just suck it up, even in dire circumstances, to enable your partner to let off steam and exist back in the social world. But I mean that i my when it goes both ways. I do it for my partner and he does it for me, because honestly, I start to feel very trapped and off balance when I am with the kids 24/7 on repeat. I book things in our calendar and he has to get on with it. Do you also ensure that for yourself? Having a break and a little time out benefits everyone overall. You say you'd feel 'absolutely awful' leaving the kids with your OH. But to be honest, it's good to make yourself a priority and it's good to let the other parent take their share and understand what parenting takes. You enable him to shirk when they don't understand how much you are doing for everyone. So be selfish occasionally.

YANBU regarding the finances whatsoever. You don't seem to have equal say over how money is spent and an agreement on shared goals. That's the real issue. I suspect his tantrum is really about this. And if he can strop and say you stopped him from going, then he doesn't have to address the real problem. And that is that you don't have equal access to money and you're not legally protected within your partnership. It works for him but it isn't great for you.

And if he can strop and say you stopped him from going, then he doesn't have to address the real problem. And that is that you don't have equal access to money and you're not legally protected within your partnership. It works for him but it isn't great for you.

Yeah my ex used to do this. I would be worried about money (or lack of it) and he would try to make me out to be some nag who didn't want him being with his friends, deflection

I did say to him that if he decides he's not going, then that's entirely on him and I won't be held accountable for him coming to that decision.
I raised points about wanting to do things as a couple and questioned how he's planning on saving for this trip, I didn't say he shouldn't go, so it's eff all to do with me if he doesn't go!

That aside, I have had some great advice here so thanks ladies! I'd just like to ask how you'd approach things as they currently stand/going forward?

Obviously OH and I can't go on ignoring each other forever (for obvious reasons), but given I'm tired of being the mediator after arguments, I don't particularly want to have to be the 'bigger person' this time round and go to him to smooth things over when I don't believe it's my place to. I feel it should be him.

What would you do?

Would you wait it out until he (hopefully, maybe) sees sense and puts an end to his strop and decides to take it on himself to sit down and have a decent chat about things?

Or would you just accept that you need to be the more mature one and take control of the situation yourself by addressing it so that the sulking and silence stops?

Doesn't sound like there's much fun for either of you, no wonder you want security/answers and he wants to do things away from you. If there's this level of aggro all the time he possibly sees you as the face of bad news and finds your company hassle, so seeks to minimise it.

Reads to me what started as the normal relationship is now in so deep he's either changed his mind or is paralysed with where to begin with it all.

He sounds like he's checked out ages ago and is basically an atm for the family. I don't see why you're persisting in continuing, have some self respect and kick him to the curb. A 4/5 year engagement is a joke, it's done by people to buy time and basically shut the other person up.

You're already doing this on your own, why flog a dead horse? Find someone else who actually makes you happy.

This is so sad because you are selling yourself short and he's still miles below you're already low bar. You're expecting nigh on nothing and getting even less.

You and the kids are not a priority to him, much less even a dinner down the road or some daft 4 year engagement.

If he wanted all that he'd have done it of his own back years ago.

People who say, 'Don't marry him' are wasting their breath because he'll never ask.

*What would you do?

Would you wait it out until he (hopefully, maybe) sees sense and puts an end to his strop and decides to take it on himself to sit down and have a decent chat about things?

Or would you just accept that you need to be the more mature one and take control of the situation yourself by addressing it so that the sulking and silence stops?*

I'd never have been in the situation to begin with because there was never a chance in hell I'd have had a baby, much less two, with a man who wasn't married to me. But, in your shoes, he could go on stropping and sulking from now until the world ends, because you're already doing this on your own as it is and he will never 'have a decent chat' and stick to it because in his eyes, he comes first, he's already right and he's willing to do whatever it takes to make that so.

Any love I'd have for him would be gone because love is respect, and you don't respect yourself it's highly unlikely anyone else will, either.

I would wait it out. I don't see how you could smooth things over without apologising, and you have nothing to apologise for. He is throwing this sulk to try to get you back into line so you won't upset the apple cart and the nice cushy life with no commitments that he has right now.

I agree with PP upthread that you would be best off having a private registry office wedding just the two of you (witnesses off the street) for your legal protection right now. In future, when you can afford it, you can have the big day and it would technically be a renewal of vows but it could still be the day you have dreamed of.

What anniversary are you talking about? Because you're not married... is it the anniversary of your first date or something? I wouldn't make a big fuss over that, but everything else just isn't right.

I think you have to sit it out as you would any tantrum - otherwise you will end up conceding ground

Funny isn’t it how they will pull out all the stops when it comes to something they want to do. And when you hilight the selfishness, the man child suddenly appears and throws a strop.

What is happening is not fair and you and your children deserve better. Do not pander to his pathetic behaviour and make it clear this situation is not acceptable. If he continues to prioritise his own selfishness before his family then you have your answer and the path outlined for the remainder of the time you intend to waste on this person. Life is too short to be treated this way. I have these issues with my OH and he doesn’t like it when I make it known he is being a selfish arse. I get the man strips but deep down he knows he is in the wrong and will make the effort eventually.