is my husband depressed, or a selfish fucker

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

50, natural introvert, Good Man, works hard, likes to relax with computer games. Drinks for "stress management".

3 kids, all early/preteens. He spends zero time with them. and, I mean, zero. If I'm not here he doesn't feed them, he might order dominoes, but, that's it. No "have you brushed your teeth?" or "let's go outside" or "how are you getting on with x,y,z" because he has no idea what their x, y, z's are.

We don't share a room because I snore (totally fair). We don't have sex. We don't go out. We have no plans for our future. He won't talk about my work. He does nothing in the house beyond the things he cherry picked for himself, financial stuff and bins etc.

He's a good man, he's loyal, moral, has a work ethic, is very very smart. I pointed out to him that he is not actually in a relationship with any of the people he lives with and that I WANT to be in a relationship. That the kids need him. that this is shit.

Cue sad face, sorrowful "let's have date night" and vague panic that I'll leave him (not misplaced panic).

Says he's depressed. Sees no need to get a diagnosis because it's just work stress.

I think he's just managed to engineer our lives so that he does the bare minimum. I think he's happiest in front of a complex computer game, with a glass of wine and his own company.

Fancy voting? Should I help/coerce/frogmarch him to GP or find my ducks so I can line them up?

Yes, that's exactly what I have been doing. Trying very hard to keep my vows.

I made them in good faith. I meant them. I still mean them! But, I thought they would be reciprocated.

There have been many times where his absence caused real harm. One of our kids was unwell for years - his dad never came to an appointment even though one year there were many life threatening episodes. He used to whine that I "got a rest" when in the hospital with a gravely ill child for a week.

Right now, my health is not so great and my mum is having chemo. My dad's heart's a bit ropey. He said yesterday "you need a break, let's have a weekend away" and I STUPIDLY got excited that at last he was stepping up and looking after me! That lead to "let's have this big blow out holiday" - and today "no, I'm thinking about going to the GP. I am so alone. No one looks after me. I have to defend myself".

I'm swinging between weeping and rage.

I'm going to have to pretend that everything is solvable so he shows me where the bank accounts are. I need access to them whenever I want - and he is going to resist that. however, there is no good reason for him to keep it to himself, so, he'll have to share. I am not a forensic accountant - I have no idea about where to start. At the beginning, I guess.

Fuck.

So now you know he has vast cash stashed. See a solicitor, make sure you and dc get enough for a fresh start.
My god how you deserve one.

I would go through the filing cabinet, internet history and his wallet for clues about finances.

If your mortgage is in joint names I'd call the company and ask for a balance.

He's obviously aware now that things are taking a turn and he may try and hide things even more.

He never honoured those vows; they were just words to him along with a means to an end.

Even pretending to him that everything is solvable so that he shows you financial details is a tactic unlikely to work. He has not shown you anything to date and that won't change so at the very least you will have to do your own investigations. He does not and has never actually wanted to share anything, let alone money or his life, with anyone including his children.

You will certainly need legal advice and a forensic accountant and both asap. Its high time you freed both yourself and your children from this sham of a marriage.

I'd be very wary about asking him directly about finances/access to accounts or information. The chances that by the time he does relent he would have hidden/stashed things away so you never get a clear picture.
In your shoes I would be doing some discreet digging when he's not around.
What does he do for work OP?

I know you have tried before to find out about the finances, what happened when you asked him?

You need to find out everything, especially all the loans / debts he might be hiding.

Go through what has happened before and see how he has shut you down. Or did he promise to show ylu and then lied?
Be ready for him this time and don't give up until you know everything.

Best of luck x

Others have said it before me but I will throw in my two cents too because I feel for you and have been in the same situation minus the kids which I can only imagine adds extra stress to the situation because you have to think of what's best for them. That numb feeling you have is natural, it's your body's self-defense mechanism, let it be until you have everything practical sorted out then you can focus on your feelings.

1. Depression can make you selfish but you also need to have a certain desire to manipulate the situation to use it as your carte blanche to get out of difficult situations

1. Alcohol is used by many depressed people as a coping mechanism but it's not a healthy one and as many have said on here, it definitely is the route to alcoholism or at least to some level of dependence on alcohol. This will never help resolve anything and it will only get worse

1. Having had people close to me who suffered with depression and other mental health issues, there seem two main types of people a) people who will be assholes and selfish pricks because of their problem but with the right help and support they realise they want a better life for themselves and for those they love. These people will work their asses to get better, they will use different avenues and will bleed their way through it but will make an effort to become better for themselves and their families b) people who have accepted their 'fate' and expect others to bend over backwards for them. It's not necessarily something they are entirely in control of sometimes but it's not something you cause or should be responsible for.

This sounds harsh but even if he is depressed, you are not obliged to help him. You need emotional support too and can't run on empty. You are worthy of so much more.

He works in finance, Koala. That's why I gave up asking - he's really very good with money and I am not great. I was never in debt, but, I never had much in the way of investments (mind you, I had bought a flat and a car and was doing fine before we got married and I gave up work to look after our kids, and never quite managed to get back to work for 10 years because one of them was poorly for a while. So, I should give myself some credit!)

There won't be debt hidden away - he's not a gambler or in any way frivolous with money. What there will be is sensible investments that I don't need to worry my pretty little head about.

He would say that he HAS shown me the finances and that I steadfastly refuse to undersnd. What actually happens is he gets me to put receipts in time order and enters them into a spread sheet and tuts at how much bread costs and my profligate ways. I shop at Lidl and cook most stuff from scratch and am brilliant with leftovers.

I said to him this morning that I wanted to see the money and understand what's going on. That without that we don't have equality in the marriage and that's part of the problem.

The truth is he sees his wages as his money.

vivarium that all sounds really difficult.

It doesn't sound to me like he will give you access to the bank accounts, even if you pretend you still think things are solvable. He has not changed. It has always been true that there is no good reason for him to keep them to himself, but he has done it for all these years.

My first step would be to speak to a solicitor, find out about the process, including what happens with financial disclosures.

What was his response when you asked about the money and said you don't have equality in the marriage and that's part of the problem?

True, Pilar. Nothing has objectively changed in response to anything I have said or done in a decade. Bloody hell, that's a bit of a hint.

He didn't listen, he was interrupting me and derailing into why he has to "defend" himself. I said he was so busy defending he wasn't listening and that was a large part of the problem in our marriage.

Our poor kids all heard it this morning. we weren't swearing or vile to each other, but, I was shouting and he was interrupting and manipulating.

This is no good in an exam year.

It makes me sad - their daddy doesn't come to their birthday parties.

Op- what?? I was married to an emotionally abusive man but even he would not dream of missing dcs’ bd parties. I think you’re right- this is check out time. Good luck and enjoy the next stage of yours and your dcs’ lives which will be such a contrast of happiness- I speak from experience- it’s like in the wizard of oz, your life turns from black-and-white to colour and you wonder how you could have tolerated that half life for so long. Hard to see woods for trees when you’re in the thick of it, I know.

He did come to one, our middle kid's fourth birthday party because I needed a hand as it was held at a church hall. He stood there looking horrified at the kids running around having a great time (I do great parties. Piñata, messy craft, good games, loud music and dancing. Quite miss it now they are too big for it)

The rest of them he's been in the house for, in his room or in another room, hiding from it. He doesn't like the noise and fun chaos. Isn't keen on other people's kids. Doesn't even come to sing happy birthday at the fucking cake!

What the fuck have I been allowing? I KNEW that was shit! I just pretended it didn't matter, that the kids are secure and know they are loved, that he's tired from working, that it's not his thing, etc etc etc.

I need a kick up the arse. Actually, I needed that 10 years ago. I think the truth is that I just didn't want to admit that I had made a horrible mistake in marrying him. Kids are a joy, mind. Real crackers, our kids. So, there's that.

rage-tears-rage-tears-rage-tears-rage-tears.

I want to rescue it, I want him to not be a dick, I want to be married. I don't want to be ignored, dismissed, and lonely.

Rage.

You cannot save this on your own!
You've been trying for 10 friggin' years and it's not made a single jot of difference.
Why do you WANT to be married?
What does it matter?

Keep the rage.
Then kick him out!

You made an awful mistake in marrying him at all. But that is done now and you still have a choice here re this man, your children do not.

You cannot act as either a rescuer or saviour in any relationship vivarium, neither approach works. Haven't you learnt that by now?. There are no prizes for martyring yourself here. You've already tried doing that and look where it has got you.

What are you getting out of this relationship still?. On a wider level too your children may well think you are putting him still before your own self and in turn them. They have seen how you react to him and learn about relationships from you also.

Save your own self here along with your children. He is not worth any more of your time or effort. You will remain controlled, dismissed and lonely if you stay with him; hell he treats his fellow work colleagues better than you. Any thoughts you have to the contrary are really the sunken costs fallacy in action.

Frankly your kids long term happiness here is far more important in the long term than their exams. They can be retaken for a start. There is never a "good" time to leave because there will always be something but you really do need to start making firm and secure plans to leave him now.

Your H has never wanted to share anything with anyone and will not ever do so either. Its all his to him and such self absorbed men really do not ever want to share. You facilitate his life and provide a veneer of respectability to his existence, that is how he sees you.
What are you both modelling to these children relationship wise?.

oh OP i feel for you. Its important you take action before you end up ill or having a breakdown.
I had one 4 years ago and am on the way up again. Now that ex and I are separated almost two years I am much calmer and less moody.

I wont pretend life is a walk in the park because it isnt, its pretty shite. However, it;s LESS shit than it would have been and for that i am grateful. The only way is up.

Not going to their birthday parties, that's low. (Lots of people hate parties and suffer through them, but they do it because they love their children.)

Please find a good counseller, get support, you have been chipped away at so much that you don't know what's right.

Good luck x

Sunk Cost Fallacy is exactly right, Meerkat.

To be fair, he wasn't like this when we were dating. He was kind, attentive, whirlwind romance, "let's go to Paris"...

...MN would call it love bombing.

The party thing is poor. It's all poor. He'll be home by 9. Dreading it.

Sending you OP. You know what has to be done now, that's the main thing hugs

Don’t feel bad you didn’t come to this conclusion before. It takes many ppl in this type of r/s years to de-fog and disentangle. For me, I felt my ex’s hands were inside my brain, squishing away and separating from him seemed impossible. Now I’ve done it I can testify that it was fairly easy- not a walk in the park of course, so much drama from him, but even the worst moments better than living with him. I used to obsessively google his possible personality disorders to shore up my shaky perspective. Now I don’t need to because it’s irrelevant now- I’m out and it was right to free myself from a miserable situation and that’s that for me now. I am so relaxed and happy. Took a while but the process was excellent learning curve for me! I recommend it.

Have you close friends and family you can rely on for company and conversation, abc support. Are you honest about him or do you make excuses for him?

He does sound as if he has checked out but if you still love him you could keep the option of counselling together and actions- and go yourself anyway for you, to have someone independent to talk to.

My dh is similar, except I don't have expectations round kids parties as I don't like then either, dc are older so it's not important now - what's important is now.

Talk to each other about your boundaries you each have abc expectations. Once a week have a chat ( not date night) where you both listen to each other ( for a hour then that's it)

If your dc are older what could he do with them? Could they take it in turns to walk the dog together and bond? Cook dinner once a week? What does he think of? He can't or wont do it alone but you could all try together and bring it into the open?

I know the above won't be poplar / majority but it depends what you both want and what you will both compromise to have it.

God you poor thing.

Can you go to a "therapist" who is really a lawyer who will tell you what financial stuffs you need to lay your hands on?

See a solicitor. Honestly. See a good solicitor as soon as you can and don't tell him what you are doing.

You need to move quickly here.

I was in shoes a bit like yours except mine had a raging nasty bastard temper.

I threw him out.

Life is a million times better.

His selfish behaviour is not a coincidence.