is my husband depressed, or a selfish fucker

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

50, natural introvert, Good Man, works hard, likes to relax with computer games. Drinks for "stress management".

3 kids, all early/preteens. He spends zero time with them. and, I mean, zero. If I'm not here he doesn't feed them, he might order dominoes, but, that's it. No "have you brushed your teeth?" or "let's go outside" or "how are you getting on with x,y,z" because he has no idea what their x, y, z's are.

We don't share a room because I snore (totally fair). We don't have sex. We don't go out. We have no plans for our future. He won't talk about my work. He does nothing in the house beyond the things he cherry picked for himself, financial stuff and bins etc.

He's a good man, he's loyal, moral, has a work ethic, is very very smart. I pointed out to him that he is not actually in a relationship with any of the people he lives with and that I WANT to be in a relationship. That the kids need him. that this is shit.

Cue sad face, sorrowful "let's have date night" and vague panic that I'll leave him (not misplaced panic).

Says he's depressed. Sees no need to get a diagnosis because it's just work stress.

I think he's just managed to engineer our lives so that he does the bare minimum. I think he's happiest in front of a complex computer game, with a glass of wine and his own company.

Fancy voting? Should I help/coerce/frogmarch him to GP or find my ducks so I can line them up?

he's genuinely upset when I point out that he's letting the kids down, that they need him, that he's got parental responsibilities

Why is he upset?

Is he upset because he’s letting you and the kids down or upset because the bare minimum he does has been called into question and he knows he ought to show that he’s upset to temporarily placate you? I’m guessing the latter as nothing changes. It’s all lip service.

You need to go on what he does, not how he pretends to feel.

he's genuinely upset when I point out that he's letting the kids down, that they need him, that he's got parental responsibilities

But not upset enough to actually start making some changes?

You can't go on like this. My H was like this - his main issue was alcohol, and he eventually stopped being a functioning alcoholic and became a non-functioning one. The lack of effort at home, the lack of parenting, the lack of attachment to family - that was all there much longer term. And I was working full time and doing all the house stuff.

After the drinking escalated and rehab failed (because he didn't want rehab), I started divorce proceedings. He moved out last December, he died in early August. It's sad, it's been hard, but my life and my DDs' lives have been much better without him. Think about what your future will look like if you stay.

My H also refused to help himself. There comes a time when support isn't enough - the person has to take responsibility for himself.

However, the OP has allowed this.

Words matter.

No, Op, you have only chosen to live like this so far. You can choose something different for yourself, but his behaviour is not your responsibility and you shouldn't feel that it is.
Only your response to his behaviour is your responsibility. You've tried reasoning, now you can leave it.
Don't try strategies to change him. He won't. He'll just do the bare minimum that he feels is enough. And probably rever to type as soon as he feels safe.

If you can, there's such a thing as forensic accountants, who could investigate his income and savings.

Get out whilst you can. You are his housekeeper that is all! He's checked out years ago. Stop doing everything for him. Get legal advice and get your hands on everything to do with finances, without him knowing if you can!

No, I wouldn't wait six years, that would be another six years of teaching your children how to be in a relationship. And since the one you're in is toxic, how is that going to help them in the future?

Please don't live apart under one roof, it would be an absolute nightmare.

He does mean to be a dick, the mystified air about the kievs is put on because he can't be arsed. I mean, come on, the amount of effort he puts into the finances and moving things around, and making damned sure you never get to see any of what he's doing, tht's not a man who doesn't know he's being a dick. This is a man who can put the effort into what he wants to put an effort into. And it's not you. And it's not his children.

If you can leave and live mortgage free nearer your family, what on earth are you waiting for?

He sounds like our old neighbour ! He used to sit in his gaming room for hours, days on end whilst his wife and kids spent their existence in other rooms.

I don't get gaming. I think grown men who spend an inordinate amount of time online gaming need to grow the fuck up and stop being so selfish. Same applies to your DH.

I even cited this In my divorce as a description for unreasonable behaviour, which to this day still makes me smile inside.

No half measurt here OP. Give him a right royal kick in the balls, remove the fuse from the plug of his machine and tell him next time it'll be saying hello to Mr Hammer if he doesnt shape up.

I feel for you OP as have also been through the experience of a dreadfully disappointing husband who was crap with our 2 daughters . Lots resonates for me in your story, especially the food thing - I'd come home after working late to find he'd eaten but given them nothing at all - or sometimes just plain pasta with nothing on it.
You need to end the relationship asap unless you think he can change (unlikely) - so in this way I'm agreeing with everyone else. But i really dislike all the condemnation and judgement so many people are coming out with. As i see it you've both made mistakes - in your case having 3 kids with someone who was starting to show his true colours on your honeymoon! I made the same huge error of thinking my ex would improve as a result of becoming a dad and this is an incredibly common trap. If you or i have been hoodwinked, it's by this stupid notion - that marriage and parenthood will make better people of us and make us happy into the bargain. For a lot of people - sounds like your husband included - the whole experience is purgatory and that's a very tough thing to discover for both parties once you're stuck in it. He's probably as unhappy as you and feels equally trapped by the bed he's made - the drinking and escapist games are a sure sign he can't face his life outside of work. I bet you'll both be miles happier if you separate - my ex is now living the life of riley as a born again 20-something (aged 102). He's still a total arse but at least we don't live with him any more and my girls are better off at long distance, seeing him for what he is (ie an arse) and managing to appreciate the handful of good qualities he shows them a few times a year.

Start planning your exit OP.
He is a selfish man who is financially controlling and an absolutely crap father and husband.
You can do without the stress of living like this and you deserve better.

You need to put yourself first and your DCs and make a great life for yourself while you can

He doesn't sound depressed to me - he goes to work, he plays his computer games m, he enjoys a glass of wine. He might be stressed from work and need a glass of wine to unwind but to be honest lots of us do! He just sounds extremely selfish and unsuited to family life - tbh you have also facilitated this for many years. Not that easy to extricate yourself now I suspect

He does mean to be a dick. Excluding you from financial affairs is financial abuse.

He's not a good guy.

I've been through depression and still managed to feed my kids. It's not optional.

Marriage vows aren't there to tie you to misery for the rest of your life.

You don't get anything from the relationship. Your kids don't get anything from the relationship. You're sticking around to appease him - the guy that doesn't give a fuck and occasionally acts upset.

I would leave any never look back 20 years ago.

Had a chat/showdown last night.

It struck me that it's very dull to discuss it all again. He knows fine well, he just doesn't care.

He becomes combative, turns the conversation round to my failings instead of discussing my point. It's very frustrating and he's very, very good at deflecting. Last night I stood my ground and kept returning to "if you want to talk about the things that I do wrong then bring it up. Right now I am bringing up that you break your marriage vows and don't fulfil your parental responsibilities"

Cue usual indignance, then, slumped posture and then "I can't talk about this any more"...and off he goes to manage his stress.

So, this morning, instead of being the good wifie, keeping things calm before his work, I brought it up again. "Why are you going on about this AGAIN?" "because it's not done, nothing has changed, this is another day of me living without a mutually supportive relationship".

He very reluctantly said he'd go to the GP. But, we've been here before - he won't do it.

This all feels very scary. I came home last night and thought "aw, we can make it work" this morning I've looked again at properties to rent in the town where I can make life work alone.

It looks fucking idyllic.

The financial control thing tips the balance IMO from him being lazy and emotionally stunted to him being a selfish and borderline abusive arse.

Thinking about how a new life without him sounds like a good plan.

It looks fucking idyllic
Of course it does.
It's freedom for you.
Freedom from your DH's abuse and manipulation.
Keep looking and really think about a proper exit plan.
The scales are starting to fall and soon you'll see for what he really is.
The prick that we already all see!

The money is not limited. But, he is a bit tight. I do all the spending because i'm doing all the shopping.

It's the savings - I have no idea at all. We fell out a couple of years ago because I found out he earned way more than I thought he did - quite an unusual cause for a fight about money. Ridiculous situation. He simply doesn't see it as being my business.

I am getting pretty cross with him now.

We are not a team, we never have been. He treats me like staff, with a veneer of social acceptability.

I ageee that the financial secrecy tips the balance towards an abusuve arse.

He knows exactly what he’s doing.

It's funny, but, I bought a settee last year. I bought a really good sofa bed, saying it'd be handy if my family come with the nieces and nephews , but, actually, I bought it thinking "if I'm in a house with the kids I could manage with a 2 bedroom with the boys sharing, the girl in a room and me in the living room"

Would be quite happy.

See, you've been getting your ducks in a row for ages. It's crap isn't it, realising that your relationship is not what you'd hoped for. Keep on making decisions to protect yourself & the children, for the present & the future, as it does seem fairly clear that your DH won't.

I have a backpack ready for "in the event of a fire". There's cash in there, I'm getting copy of documents, medications. DH knows it's there - there was a fire we'd need it if we could grab it in time. But, it's also my running away bag. He's not violent, or even abusive, but I just can't cope with his MH issues & lack of willingness to sort them. I need to know I can get out fairly easily, for my sanity. I have no support network.

Argh... that was supposed to say: if there was a fire we'd need it if we could grab it in time.

Why would you put yourself on a sofa bed when your husband seems to be comfortably off? What message does it give your children about how you value yourself? Is he going to sleep on a sofa bed when you split? Don’t be a martyr

That's a good idea, Bovril. And, yes, I think I have mentally left my marriage as of the day I posted. I don't even feel sad, just a bit disappointed.

I DO feel better since I worked out a Plan B. It was liberating, working out that actually, I'd be ok and could manage the kids alone. He's spent years teaching me not to need him, of course I can do it.

Carrie, don't want the house off him. It'd mean a mortgage and the council tax is stupidly expensive. The draw of being mortgage free in a smaller place is huge - the house is just a house, the home is what I make. Happily, the property market has dropped in the town that's nearer my folks and friends, whilst the city we live in has continued to rocket.

I've got a big work thing for the next 6 months. Will beaver away at that, and see how things are after that. I think it's reasonable to give him a chance, which he'll fuck up.

He very reluctantly said he'd go to the GP. But, we've been here before - he won't do it.

If you push it enough, he will go to the GP and he will get a diagnosis of depression. Then he will use that as his "get out of jail free" card - any responsibility he wants to get out of, anything he doesn't want to do, he will say "I can't face that today, I'm too depressed".

Going to the GP is not a solution. He doesn't sound depressed at all, he's just looking for excuses to keep opting out of his responsibilities. He is still doing just the bare minimum to shut you up.

The more you write about him, the worse he sounds. The financial control is very worrying - you need to get some oversight on the finances. Clearly he has already misled you about his earnings so if you were to divorce he would hide money and minimise his earnings / savings / investments. You need to do everything you can to get evidence of all this before you leave the marriage.

He sounds like a professional. Deal with him like someone at work who isn't coming up with the goods. Tell him to email you details of all the finances including his salary, pensions, savings and investments. Give him a deadline. Chase by email. Tell him the consequences. Out of interest, what was / is his father like?

The giving him a chance thing is utterly utterly pointless. From the sounds of things, he sees you as lower than the shit on his shoe. Get the ball rolling now, waiting will not solve anything. Screw him over financially as well - I bet he has shed loads squirelled away. These types always do.

Good men don't neglect their kids. He is not a good man.