is my husband depressed, or a selfish fucker

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

50, natural introvert, Good Man, works hard, likes to relax with computer games. Drinks for "stress management".

3 kids, all early/preteens. He spends zero time with them. and, I mean, zero. If I'm not here he doesn't feed them, he might order dominoes, but, that's it. No "have you brushed your teeth?" or "let's go outside" or "how are you getting on with x,y,z" because he has no idea what their x, y, z's are.

We don't share a room because I snore (totally fair). We don't have sex. We don't go out. We have no plans for our future. He won't talk about my work. He does nothing in the house beyond the things he cherry picked for himself, financial stuff and bins etc.

He's a good man, he's loyal, moral, has a work ethic, is very very smart. I pointed out to him that he is not actually in a relationship with any of the people he lives with and that I WANT to be in a relationship. That the kids need him. that this is shit.

Cue sad face, sorrowful "let's have date night" and vague panic that I'll leave him (not misplaced panic).

Says he's depressed. Sees no need to get a diagnosis because it's just work stress.

I think he's just managed to engineer our lives so that he does the bare minimum. I think he's happiest in front of a complex computer game, with a glass of wine and his own company.

Fancy voting? Should I help/coerce/frogmarch him to GP or find my ducks so I can line them up?

He's playing you. Take my word for it, as one who has been comprehensively played. He's got things worked out exactly as he wants them and he will not change. Either put up or get out. I'm going for the latter option after too many wasted years.

Don't push him to go to the GP. It isn't the answer you are looking for.

He'll just get a way to de-rail everything by saying he's depressed and turn the focus on himself. After all the best way to manage work-related stress is to rebalance and engage in home life been there, bought the T-shirt He doesn't want to do this.

You need to focus on getting the financial info out of him and making him step up.

I grew up with a dad like that. I'm 40 and still fucked up over it and am still amazed when my husband washes a dish or pays attention to me. It's horrible. When I was younger, I felt totally unworthy of male attention so I would do anything to get it, it was like a drug to me. I got into some really dodgy situations as a result.

In my whole life, I have had literally one conversation with my dad. I don't mean one deep or meaningful conversation, I mean ONE TIME I spoke with him for more than one sentence. It was about renewing my car insurance.

I don't know what my dad's issue is, if he's depressed, has anxiety, just hates having kids or what, but we don't speak at all, even though he is still with my mum. If I call, he passes the phone to her immediately. He doesn't know when my birthday is, how old I am, what I studied at university, what illnesses I've had. He was 100% checked out of family life from day 1 and my mum did everything. Growing up was awful, tense and awkward and feeling unloved all the time.

Please don't do that to your kids.

You are making excuses for doing nothing. Your work for 6 months, 6 years of children's exam stages. There's always a reason not to act now.

Get a shit hot lawyer this week. Start the ball rolling. Get a forensic accountant if you can't get the financial information yourself.

Tell him that sight of the finances will make you happier and push push push on every conversation until he show you. This is far more important than a GP visit.

My parents stayed together until after I did my A-levels. I haven't forgiven them.

From personal experience, I say it's grim living with a parent who gives no fucks about you. The real kicker is when the supposedly nice parent acts like it is quite reasonable that you are not liked never mind loved by the distant one. How more clearly can they tell a child they are unloveable, some how not worth even a parent's love? It takes years of work to sort your head out after that.

The sooner you get them out of there and show that you do genuinely believe he is awful to them, the sooner your children start to think that it isn't them that are the shit unloveable people.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria
Please don't worry about your kids and their exams, my DD is 15 and will take exams in 2019 but me and her dad have split up recently and live apart and she has taken it so much better than I ever thought she would.

The reason for this, I think, is because me and her dad still get on and in front of her we speak like friends etc - in reality I go through phases of hating him but I would never let my daughter know that.

I told my exDH on 29/4 that our marriage was over but we could not tell anyone for a month as our DS was at Uni doing exams but I moved into his bedroom and DD did not even really notice.
He then moved out on 1/6.

Its the best thing I ever did - my exDH does have mental health problems and they have been the cause of all the problems in our marriage and finally I've had enough, threats of suicide kept me in a marriage for 17 years but this year was the year I got out.
Despite the threats he hasn't killed himself although he messages me regularly to tell me he will take his own life when our DD is independent - in the past I would have begged him not to, now I tell him that if that is what he wants to do then that is his decision and I am not party to it.

Good Luck with sorting everything

I feel sorry for the GPs of many of these MN spouses because a lot of times, their spouses aren't depressed, they have Selfish Man Syndrome. This is similar to Shit Life Syndrome, which is sadly usually not entirely the afflicted's fault.

Your h is a manipulative, selfish arse who's borderline financially abusive and doesn't deserve the kids he's got.

Thanks for the thoughts, folks.

Someone asked about his own dad, that was a good question. His family are very stiff-upper-lip. I don't think he's ever spoken about affection being part of his childhood. He's certainly more demonstrative than his parents are!

I agree about the GPs who must struggle with men being marched in by frustrated wives! He's said that he isn't ready to see his GP, so, I said "well, you can't be depressed and must be being selfish then. If It's not diagnosed, if you won't go for a diagnosis, then it's an excuse" Amazingly, his mood has lifted after that.

He is trying. He is talking to the kids, planning a family activity at the weekend and even gave me a cuddle.

This will have worn off by the end of the weekend.

I'm gathering ducks. There's no rush.

Think about it from the GP's perspective. They have 10 whole minutes to do this.

Man comes in, mutters something about marriage, depression, work. GP can get him to do a PHQ9 screening tool which is so vague most miserable people will come up with something.

GP offers counselling or antidepressants.

Man comes home, tells wife what exactly? Quite often, looking at these boards a complete crock of shit. Often seems to be an excuse to have a new hobby which takes him even further out of family life, but now can't be challenged as he has the magic diagnosis and 'you are not supporting my mental health'. He might go to counselling but if he doesn't fancy it, he doesn't have to tell you about it. Or if he does, it is in hushed terms and now you can't leave as 'he is having counselling' for ever and fucking ever and might improve.

Going to the GP only works when the DH wants to do it and is really really motivated to get well and change things. Same with going to marriage counselling - you both have to want to be there.

Your post was full of unhappiness which is quite understandable. What really panicked me was the fact you have no idea what he earns nor how much money there is in savings accounts. He could be siphoning off who knows what in to various accounts.

He is blocking any real discussion on the issues as well, deliberately not communicating. I'm really not a LTB type of poster but something has to change otherwise the only person who will be depressed for certain is yourself op.

You have given him a scare, hence the behaviour change and making an effort. Don't let that slide, then only you can decide if the effort of managing him is what you want. He needs his own epiphany at this stage he is a work in progress, shouldn't have to be like that but if you want to salvage your marriage then that's what will have to happen.

Nothing more to add here only you sound like you've already made up your mind but needed validation from others - go with your gut on this, your dc will cope.

He sounds like my ex, I thought he was great (he wasn't really) but I couldn't see the truth until I'd got out and a) realised life can be fun and b) there are nicer partners to have - by a long way.

You sound a lot like my mother back when I was about 7 - parents split and it was very very very messy, but by the time I'd hit 11ish, I realised that it was 100% the right thing to do, especially after my mum found happiness, and my dad did too. People at school said "sorry" that my parents weren't together, I was always confused - why would it be a sad thing if both were so much happier?

Kids cope, but make sure they have the support they may need later on, and try to find a positive relationship model for them, or just make your freedom and happiness at the situation obvious to them - they're old enough and smart enough to put it together and not see a split as the end of the world.

Wishing you all the best.

Oh, OP, he's just drawing you in again. I note he hasn't given you access to the finances, though. You really need to concentrate on that. Find out as much as you can (e.g. about savings accounts) without asking him (as that will only make him hide more than he has already.) Go through his private papers if you can. Then I guess you will have to ask him. At the very least make him show you the bank statements for the account his pay goes into, and ask him to show you all savings accounts. (He'll probably have some secret ones but there should at least be a "main" one that you can demand to see.)

Don't be conned by the nice guy act.

Exactly, Anna. My sister found out her ex was slipping off to the pub during his 'counselling' sessions. I don't half wonder if some of these GPs don't know some of these are just afflicted with Selfish Man Syndrome.

*He's a good man.
*
No OP, you're a hell of a good woman to see the good in him at the moment. Would Relate be any good to you? It sounds like he needs to hear about how his behaviour is actually really inadequate for the family he lives in. Pre teens turn into teens, into young adults, they leave home and have families and disappear... he needs to engage with them before there's nothing to engage with. The sad reality is that when the grow up and leave home, you'll be left with him. Then what?

Get access to the finances while he is trying to win you back.

The finances seems like a good place to start, because its a concrete thing that is either done or not done, its possible for him to do it without having to be in "a good place" emotionally, and its something you can put a firm deadline on.

"I'm over having no idea what our finances are. Either you sort me out access to all of it by xx date or I'll take that as a firm decision from you that this marriage is done".

Tell him If he were to be knocked over by a bus tomorrow, you and the kids would be left destitute. Seriously, it can take months and months to sort out finances in probate. You need joint access to all finances. Good luck OP

Ha, Daria, I have said exactly that to him. He says I'm ridiculous, that it's all in the filing cabinet. Which I don't doubt - I honestly don't think he's squirrelling money away into anything other than savings. But, then, you never know.

I like your line, Storm, will do that.

We've been to counselling, twice, at my insistence. Don't think I'd bother again - he says all the right things there but nothing actually changes. It's utterly pointless.

Sometimes I think I'll hang on until I'm widowed and I'd be pretty bloody merry.

Massive fight this morning. DS13 fell asleep instead of getting up, again. DH comes stomping downstairs bitching about our boy - and I saw red. He interrupts me whenever I say anything remotely critical, and I lost my temper about it this morning. I shouted, and, I have a great shout.

"you are bullying me" says DH (true, I was fury-purple in the face)
"you are bullying our child"
"I am alone, entirely alone"
"you choose to be alone. We need you and all you do is play your game. That child needs you. We all want you and you choose to isolate yourself and deny us what we need - which is a husband and a father. You are the epitome of selfishness."

Yesterday he suggested we have a trip of a lifetime. Would be amazing. I queried that too - "why is there no money and then suddenly there is 10 grand for a massive holiday?"

Cue hurt face, leaving room.

He said he'd go to GP. Surprisingly enough, he hasn't made an appointment.

I think I'm done.

It's a very odd feeling. Just numb. I knew I was done, I knew when I posted. Bit odd to actually realise it, though.

What a fucking waste. We could have been so happy and so could the kids. What a fucking waste.

I'm so sorry to hear you are living with this. The only advice I will give you is to get all the financial stuff out on the table. You need to know exactly where you stand.

I knew a man like that once, He was with my friend. He would suggest holidays to Barbados and do crazy things, it turned out he was in huge debt from gambling. It all came out afterwards.

I don't think someone who has been saving hard would suggest blowing it all on a holiday, saving is extremely hard.

I am.not an expert in relationships, so I can't advise you about that but please PLEASE get your finances out on the table. Everything. Then you will know where you stand. Best wishes.

It's not a waste OP. You have learnt a lot.

What is a waste is when women stay for decades and decades despite being unhappy.

The end is always hard though.

You are both right.

I have really, really tried. He has refused to keep his marriage vows, his promises to me, just because he can't be arsed. He genuinely thinks that if he's not shagging around it's ok to break the others. Bizarre.

I'm reeling now - he thinks he's right. He thinks it's ok to ignore children and snarl at them if you disapprove of what they are doing.

He has never come to a parents night, a hospital appointment, a birthday party or even taken them, one to one, out on his own. Never.

It makes me sad - their daddy doesn't come to their birthday parties.

WTF have I been doing trying to save this marriage for a decade?

OP It's hard to walk away from a marriage. Of course it is, especially when there are kids.

But a marriage is a two-way thing, and being a dad isn't something you can just opt out of cos you can't be arsed. As I said upthread, it fucked me up for years that my dad paid no attention to me (shockingly similar to your story actually) and it wasn't til I was 30 or so that I actually realised so many of my issues were his fault.

Getting out is, by far, the best thing you can do for your kids.

Your husband has never had any intention of going to the GP.

Please be finally now done with this man; your reasons for at all staying with him to date seem to have focussed on you making marriage vows. He made promises too that have been broken. Do not waste any more years on this man and certainly do not live apart in the same house with him.

This is no relationship model to be showing your children.

He has never come to a parents night, a hospital appointment, a birthday party or even taken them, one to one, out on his own. Never.

It makes me sad - their daddy doesn't come to their birthday parties.

This makes me really sad for your DC.

WTF have I been doing trying to save this marriage for a decade?

You've been honouring your vows and fighting for your marriage. And there is no shame in that.

Neither is there any shame in reaching the end of the line, and realising that you have the self respect, intelligence and quite frankly, the balls to end it.

It doesn't sound as if him not being there will make any bloody difference apart from a nicer atmosphere. You and the DC will be fine.

WTF have I been doing trying to save this marriage for a decade?
I've no idea - I would have kicked him to curb many moons ago.
But you didn't. You wanted to try.

There is nothing at all wrong with that.
But just read back your posts.
You are flogging a very very dead horse here!
Time to give up and focus on you and your DC!
Good luck!