Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A awkward Question to single mums

629 replies

Issy777 · 14/10/2018 22:59

How would you trust meeting another man when you have kids?
This will sound a horrible, uncomfortable question but I recently was witnessed to something my best friend went through a few years back
She was a single mum to her 9 year old daughter, met a guy in a restaurant we went to (a waiter) he was way too fast with her
To leave out the gruesome details, she caught him stroking daughters leg. Was horrific
She's now scared of meeting someone again. I'm in a bad relationship n think I only stay because i have two daughters n I just wouldn't.. couldn't trust another man, not just cos of what happened with bf but because it's something Iv always feared
What if u meet a guy he acts like Prince Charming, u become close so you're ready to introduce him to your child ? How can you trust his intentions? What he'd be capable off?
Just something I want to know as I know it's holding me back I know there's obvious going to be no way of knowing but for instance when and how long would u introduce your dc to new guy?

OP posts:
Issy777 · 15/10/2018 21:08

Wow... didn't mean for this post to get so out of hand
My question was a genuine question I have GAD and I worry about this constantly.
What my best friend went through was awful, she did think she had found her Prince Charming. I was there when they met and he seemed fine. He seemed caring and like he wanted to be with her.
I think that's why I could never trust but I do agree with the keeping it separate etc just that what if they don't like that, if they want to get serious etc. It would be hard to keep both lives separate for so long

OP posts:
merville · 15/10/2018 21:26

If wouldn't be your fault for, no crime is the victims fault. However there are things you can do to lower your or your loved ones' risk of being a victim of crime. There are many victims of abusecwhl feel their parents of mum could have acted differently and exposed themnto risk ie new stepfather or bf moved in quickly, his background not checked , no atmosphere of trust and belief towards them etc. Or left with male baby sitters who abused them etc

merville · 15/10/2018 21:26

(not exposed them to risk)

merville · 15/10/2018 21:30

Incidentally the family I'm aware of in which the brother (now married with kids) abusecwhl his sister have denied, minimised, victim blamed, disbelieved, made our she's crazy - she withdrew her claims/went back.on them because of the distress throughout the family, which gave them more ammunition for calling her unstable and dishonest - but they now know he, with children in his home, is a child abuser (doesn't matter that he was young himself) and nothing, absolutely nothing is being done to protect those kids.

GoodPlace · 15/10/2018 21:33

You have to remember that the vast majority of men do not abuse any children at all. Many men are good role models and can help to bring up confident, resilient, secure children. That's what you have to believe in.

Yes there is a risk, yes it is significant, yes you have to be careful. But if you're aware of the risk and you are careful, it would be good to stop worrying about it. Worrying is like praying for what you don't want.

It's not like you have to decide today either, right? You'll cross that bridge when you come to it.

3ChangingForNow · 15/10/2018 22:26

Please remember little boys are also abused. A boy's most risky time for sexual abuse is under the age of 8. A girls is over 13.

Graphista · 15/10/2018 23:09

"And the vicious dismissal of other mothers' experiences and strategies for looking after their kids ... I can only assume that some of the posters here have very little going on in their lives, and turn on other women to get their fix of drama." Is that aimed at me? Because I criticised (rightly imo) that you introduced your new man so soon to your children?

If so not a case of "turning" on another woman, but wishing to hopefully get people inc yourself to consider that this really isn't a suitable course of action. Not just because of abuse (although that's one worry- and not just sexual abuse) but because you cannot know so early on if the relationship is likely to work out and putting children in the position of getting attached to someone who is then later ripped from their lives is imo irresponsible. It can affect how they feel about mum's future relationships which can cause difficulties. And can affect how they manage their own future relationships. And I'm FAR from being the only person that thinks that. On many threads where mners ask/discuss new partners coming in to their and particularly their children's lives a lot of mners inc me feel that it needs to be handled cautiously and that 6 months of being in the relationship MINIMUM before children are even introduced to the new person is a pretty good idea.

I strongly disagree there was any hint of viscousness in what I said.

Cantankerous - as I said I'm also a survivor of childhood abuse (emotional, physical and sexual) and I too am DEEPLY sorry that happened to you, it shouldn't happen to anyone, and I DO understand the urge to go to extremes to stop it happening to our own DC BUT I agree that too is unhealthy. I have had times where I've really struggled to let dd stay at a friends etc and I certainly wouldn't let her stay with anyone I didn't know VERY well, but we have to try and give them a NORMAL childhood that isn't overly coloured by our own experiences.

And I agree it can be just as worrisome re single fathers getting new partners who could be abusive. In a weird way I was VERY lucky there. Exs ow was also (prior to discovery of course) my friend too and knew dd well. She has always treated dd very well, and I am lucky to have no concerns there (though thanks to twat of ex dd hasn't seen them for several years).

But certainly had we split for another reason or he'd cheated with someone I didn't know I would definitely have worried about that not least because ex always thought I worried too much about this type of thing he was imo too FAR the other way eg suggesting a male colleague neither I nor dd had ever met babysit our then 18 month old! There was a similar situation arose when he and ow/2nd wife were at babysitting stage and he suggested similar again, and to the best of mine and his knowledge she has never been abused and so when she said don't be ridiculous he couldn't use that as an excuse then as he had tried with me.

Welshmaiden - if you are a professional in this field surely you ALSO know that what's becoming more recognised/accepted is that abusers are known to CLAIM to have been abused themselves as a way to get sympathy/lesser sentences? Experts in the field are now cautioning against automatically believing such claims.

Can I also say to all those saying "get counselling" it may help a little but I personally have found it hasn't made a huge deal of difference and I've been having therapy on and off for over 10 years.

"I have a friend who brings every new man home to her house with 4 kids within a date or two and she gets through some relationships! I think that is taking unnecessary risk." Wow! Have you not said anything to her? It's not just risky re abuse, it's not healthy emotionally for them. And yes I'm just as critical of men that do this.

"I dated my OH for a year before he met my kids, we slowly let them get to know him and now they have a fantastic loving step dad, who has added so much to their lives." Perfectly sensibly course of action which doesn't impact on someone's ability to date. Yet some posters seem to think this isn't possible. Of course it's possible, it just requires a sensible outlook and behaviour informed by self control.

I have friends and relatives who have fantastic step-dads, in some cases a damn site better than the bio dads! There is one who was very physically abusive and that has seriously, permanently damaged the relationship between mother and DC. Mother knew and was also being abused, the DC understand to a point that she was scared to leave (he was a police officer too so there was the very real threat of not being believed, of his having resources to find her/them if they did leave - he'd done that with his ex which unfortunately my friends' mum didn't learn until too late. No Clare's law then. He was very good at playing street Angel/house devil, pillar of the community etc). Mother in that case had also (I suspect manipulated by him) moved him in very quickly after meeting. Awful situation.

"This is why courts place children with mothers. It is far less RISK" simply not true. Until quite recently historically children were actually considered the property of the father and that was seen as the best place for them to be as a father was more likely to be working and earning and therefore able to financially support a child/ren. Indeed it was legally the case until 1839 when a very wealthy, educated woman challenged the existing law, and even then the mother could not have been adulterous or would not get custody. And of course a legal change doesn't necessarily instigate wide cultural change. So it only started to be the case the mother was more likely to get custody in the late 19th and 20th centuries. And certainly not because of perceived risk of abuse from the father but because women became better off financially and also due to notions of maternal care etc

"Most people who work with kids have to be checked and all that malarkey" knew this would come up. All that really means for definite is that at the time they were background checked they had no cautions or convictions. And we all know how easy it is to report, let alone get these creeps (I mean paedos not teachers etc) convicted 🤔

Brett kavanaugh would pass a background check, Ian Huntley DID Pass a background check. My abuser would STILL pass a background check. So would my friends abusive step dad. Thomas Hamilton (dunblane shooter) was blacklisted by the scout association but opened his own boys club and would have passed a background check - he'd been repeatedly investigated by police who were unable to find any evidence with which to even caution him, let alone convict him of anything - ie even if he was around now he'd pass a background check! Jeremy Forrest (the maths teacher who ran away with 15 year old student), passed background check. I believe Vanessa George passed a background check too.

Normal to feel someone who has been background check is probably less of a risk but I worry some people assume they are of no risk at all.

Greenlantern - in your position I would have fought like hell for my child NOT to have contact with your ex's new woman until I had met them, and would consider such behaviour by a man JUST as irresponsible as if a woman did this.

"I dont know any kids that have been abused." Sorry, but I have to say I think it's extremely unlikely you don't know anyone who has been abused as a child unless you have a very small family and few friends. I have 155 friends on Facebook, I am not friends on Facebook with anyone I don't know reasonably well in real life and that's not even everyone I know as several older relatives don't do facebook. Out of those I've told 14 that I was abused. It's not something you go about telling people. I think (my maths isn't great) that's less than 1% of the people I know, that know this about me.

Rixera - so sorry for what you went through. I was 'lucky' it never reached that point for me. Though I think partly so my dad could kid himself it wasn't 'really' abuse. He's never apologised, but he has tried to shift the blame (for all the abuse) - to booze. And I can relate to what you say about wanting to love them despite the abuse.

"Funnily enough, he was never into my sister." Not unusual. In addition to the usual preferences we all have in what we find attractive, eg do we prefer blondes or brunettes, muscular or slim etc, abusers also assess and even test whether a potential victim is likely to resist, to tell, to be obviously different after the abuse. It was a line of script in a tv show but I suspect it's true - abusers are the worlds best profilers.

"but worrying about it between siblings is surely going OTT." Why? There are many documented cases of this happening. There's a few pps on this thread that were abused by siblings. "but there is a naivety in many people about this that irks me" yes, me too.

FF how on earth is it victim blaming to say parents should take reasonable precautions to protect their children? That's their job! And the victim is the child not the other parent! There's at least 2 examples on this thread that imo are of mothers who have acted irresponsibly in introducing new boyfriends to their DC FAR too soon, that IS their responsibility. Not just in terms of preventing abuse, but in protecting their DC from the potential emotional harm of having grown close to another adult only for them to then no longer be in their lives.

I'm frequently shocked at the lax attitude of many mners when it comes to when they introduce new partners to their DC and when they move in with them.

babycow38 · 15/10/2018 23:12

I think you are very right to bring this up and discuss it. I was single suddenly with two daughters 12 and 9. I was told get out there and date find a new boyfriend. My biggest fear was introducing a man I didn't know like I knew their Dad , that sounds awful but it is true. I knew their Dad wouldn't harm them so part of my maternal urge was to stay and suck the crap I was dealing with up. The reality was I had to one day introduce a man I felt ok with to them. Even with the best will in the world you will never know if the man you believe is okay isn't , you can wait one year,two,three? My personal answer to it was wait till they are older, date, stay at his, don't merge your lives till my kids are college/university. I know this is not for everyone but for me it gave me peace of mind and I got to date/ honeymoon period longer before just shacking up together.

babycow38 · 15/10/2018 23:18

And I should add this definitely has to be applied to newly single Males with new Female partners

brookshelley · 16/10/2018 00:14

*Haven’t rtft, but a comment made by a PP stood out for me. She said she would hope not to be with a man who would find teenage girls attractive

Am I alone in thinking that all men could potentially find teenage girls attractive??*

No you’re not alone in this. Now make it a teenage girl who is a younger version of their romantic partner. It’s very naive to think a boyfriend couldn’t be attracted to your teen daughter. VERY. Not saying he would act on it but even glances and comments would cross a line for me.

Italiangreyhound · 16/10/2018 00:23

marcopront "How would you feel if your husband kept checking up on you because all the reported cases of women abusing were by mothers therefore you could be a risk to the children?"

I know that wasn't to me, but may I answer?

I would not care a fig. If my dh came home early to see what I was up to. Because I am not 'up to' anything.

SleepingStandingUp · 16/10/2018 00:32

What message is this giving boys - that they can't control themselves? That they are intrinsically bad? Take sensible precautions by all means but that's a dangerous narrative
This. In the message we pass to boys that we can't trust them we basically tell them that deviant behaviour is part of them. It IS deviant but it's also because yiur now a man and this is what men are like. And I don't think you can run a house where your sons and daughters are not permitted to be alone together, where Dad is checked up on etc and none of that pass down to the kids directly or indirectly. So girls grow up learning no to trust men, which may keep them single and safe forever, great. But it also teaches boys they're inherently bad so if they contemplate whether or not to do something (and I don't parti mean sexually) then they might as well because men are bad.

SleepingStandingUp · 16/10/2018 00:34

Issy777
Why can't you leave your abusive partner and just be single for a year. Then date when the kids aren't with you. If he wants to meet them you either arrange trips out with all of you etc or you tell him no. Any guy who pushes to meet your kids isn't the right guy for you if that isn't what you want. You don't need to be having sleepovers and introducing the kids to a guy who hasn't proven himself to you.

Italiangreyhound · 16/10/2018 00:36

ftfoawygtfosm I am so sorry to hear what happened to your children and how traumatic this must have been for all of you.

Italiangreyhound · 16/10/2018 00:48

Siun

"As I said earlier when my babysitter outgrew the job she offered her brother in her place and I felt like I was being really awful (inside my own head) when I glossed over her offer with an ummm maybe sometime and then I found another girl babysitter. I felt bad about that and now I feel better because the statistics reassure me that I just minimised the risk."

Don't ever feel bad for following your instincts for safety for you or your children. No one has a right to baby sit your kids. Flowers

Italiangreyhound · 16/10/2018 01:06

Issy777

"... but I do agree with the keeping it separate etc just that what if they don't like that, if they want to get serious etc. It would be hard to keep both lives separate for so long."

If you don't want to get serious or move them in then don't it not all about what they like.

Of I were dating noe I'd not tell prospective dates I was mum to young kids or teenage girls etc. If, when they found out, they felt cheated/that I had lied etc etc, that's there issue.

I hate that women and children and parents have to be so bloody careful but that seems to be what we need to be.

*sleeping "So girls grow up learning no to trust men, which may keep them single and safe forever, great. But it also teaches boys they're inherently bad so if they contemplate whether or not to do something (and I don't parti mean sexually) then they might as well because men are bad."

I honestly do not think men can be trusted, on mass, which us why we lock out doors and why I don't personally go home from the pub with random men (that and Ivan married).

However, tgis dors not mean all men are untrustworthy! I hope my son will be a processing men and I will do my best to bring him up to be the kind of man I can be proud of. That he can be proud of.

But I cannot throw my daughter under the bus by giving her the impression men are trustworthy.

In personal situations, no one is worthy of my trust unless they have earned it. I know womem can be abusive, in much smaller numbers than men, so I am teaching both kids to be cautious. But that does not mean everyone is untrustworthy.

Italiangreyhound · 16/10/2018 01:08

sorry on phone! So many typos!

CharismamaMia · 16/10/2018 07:06

I understand and agree but im glad i chose to minimise a risk (statistically)

Thenewdoctor · 16/10/2018 07:42

Graphista I have said, repeatedly, that parents should take reasonable precautions with people of both genders not just males.

It is, however, victim blaming to say that someone must’ve targeted a small child because of an ill will towards their parent. As was said to me. And that is completely and utterly disgusting, beyond vile and I thought, against the rules here.

SleepingStandingUp · 16/10/2018 09:49

But I cannot throw my daughter under the bus by giving her the impression men are trustworthy
And what will you teach your sons?

SeaEagleFeather · 16/10/2018 10:12

god, cantankerous, the problem isn't that your thinking is so warped. It's that you don't see it, and aren't seeking help.

If you think your fundamental mistrust of your own sons isn't deeply damaging then you are very much mistaken.

I also think your mistrust will be extremely damaging to your daughter. Your approach is passing on your own wounds and expectations to your daughters. Are you going to tell them when they are grown up that they should never let their partners alone with their own children? And you honestly think that is not destructive?

We're all the sum of our experiences but sometimes we need to assess whether our perspective is actually rational and not just driven by terror, at base.

SleepingStandingUp · 16/10/2018 10:35

Sorry, logger comment deleted.

I'm genuinely curious what all the parents of the all men are untrustworthy tell their sons.

If my son gets lost I want him to find a police officer first. I'd rather he picked a police officer this a randomer. If no police officer then a grown up with children. Then a lady. Then a man. But I'd be mindful of finding a balance between stranger danger, women are more likely to help etc rather than all men are bad because one day he will be a man.
If someone upsets him I want him to tell me OR his Dad because what if he doesn't want to tell me? I want to know he can talk Oo his Dad about awkward stuff too and not have to rely solely on me because all men are bad because one day he will be a man too.

I want him to know that the absolute expectation for him as a man is to be good and kind and protect those who are more vulnerable than him. That whilst some men are bad, they are the aberration, the anomaly.
I want my daughter to know the same and to know that IF a man hurts her that that isn't normal and therefore it isn't acceptable. HE is the aberration, or isn't something he can't help, or that happened because he was alone with her and therefore followed his base instincts. I think it's massively harmful for girls to think that men hurting them is more usual than not, to be expected, simply because they are men and men can't be trusted. I think it inadvertently makes it easier for men to quieten their victims if the victim thinks its not really an active choice for the man.

I can't imagine anyone who grows up thinknig they're inherently bad because of their genitalia can possibly grow up to a healthy, mentally well adult

gilmoregal · 16/10/2018 10:46

Crikey this is a depressing thread, thought I'd add my thoughts

I am a step- daughter, I have a step dad. I call him Dad he's been in my life living together with Mum since 8. He has certainly never perved on me, the thought turns my stomach and I'm sure would his. He's my Dad, and a normal decent man. ( They do exist)

I have a husband and a child (boy) if I didn't 100% trust my husband to not abuse our son the second I pop to Sainsbury's I wouldn't be sleeping in the same bed as him, having sex with him etc. How can you love someone if you think they could be a peadophile?

We have a few nieces and nephews, my SIL would very happily leave her dd and ds with my husband (her brother) with me not there, should she not? As an example we will leave all the children with the men and go Christmas shopping, we may also take her Mum with us and FIL May join our husbands and children for a day out. Is this massively unsafe?

Now for the more unpleasant facts, my bio dad is a peadophile. I've never met him but he was a much older man who had a relationship with a minor which resulted in me. This has admittedly made me quite intolerant of relationships with a large age difference when one is teenage, it also meant I had no interest in 'older boys/men' as a teenager myself. It hasn't made me not trust any men though, or think they are all abusers.

I also know someone ( I can't explain the situation as very outing combined with the above) who is a peadophile and is now in prison. Again this isn't making me worried about all men, simply because it can't.

To the OP, don't stay in an unhappy relationship this will definitely be damaging for your daughters. Be aware when dating, don't introduce anyone to your children before you are serious and can feel more sure of them and look for any warning signs such as moving quickly. This probably makes no sense but I think I'd feel more comfortable with another parent.

Also I work in a job where I see many young women who've been abused as children, this can be my grandfathers, fathers, step fathers, piano teachers, it can make me feel more wary and I think I'm quite an aware parent however again doesn't make me fear/hate all men as by that logic I wouldn't get in a car with my child, or walk down the street, we'd sit in the house in a bubble.

BusterGonad · 16/10/2018 11:41

Cantankerous I'm sorry for what you've been through, but you are clearly ill and need to get help. I agree that all women need to cautious when meeting new men, but you've clearly got issues that need addressing and I feel deeply dad for your children and husband.

BusterGonad · 16/10/2018 11:41

*sad

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.