Experience of relationship counselling?

[Smozzles]

Howdy! So, my husband and I had our first session of marriage counselling. We're at two very different stages. I have one foot out of the marriage to be honest. He has a quick temper and it's not scary; just tiresome and counter-productive. I've lost a lot of affection for him as a result, even though I still love him and find him attractive...a bit complicated, I know.

After 1 long session (1.5 hours), I feel wrecked. I sort of feel, 'why should I have to undergo all this therapy when he is the one with the problem?' I know that sounds like I'm being a brat but I hope I'm not. I've been seeing an individual therapist for months and the therapist has been calling my husband verbally abusive. My husband says that's because it's totally one-sided and he's not hearing his side of the story. Meanwhile, when I told the marriage therapist that my husband shouts and curses at me, she said, 'and what do you do that's not healthy?' I answered the question honestly by saying I find it hard to let things go. I know therapists have to ascertain what they're dealing with but looking back on the session, I just feel enraged by that. I think my husband needs individual counselling, not marriage counselling.

I also feel depleted and exhausted. Have any of you had a positive outcome from couples' counselling? Do you see its worth?

If you do leave, it doesn’t need to take years to get over this. You have help from a counsellor and could get through it. Given your age and desire for DC the “sunk costs fallacy” seems apt.

If you do attend another session please state explicitly that having reflected on her question about abuse in the relationship you consider the primary problem is his verbal/emotional abuse of you.

He doesn’t have an “anger management” issue, he is behaving abusively.

Meanwhile, when I told the marriage therapist that my husband shouts and curses at me, she said, 'and what do you do that's not healthy?' I answered the question honestly by saying I find it hard to let things go. I know therapists have to ascertain what they're dealing with but looking back on the session, I just feel enraged by that. I think my husband needs individual counselling, not marriage counselling.

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As others have said, the marriage counsellor sounds unnecessarily confrontational towards you. There is a school of counselling whereby the counsellor is confrontational which I imagine might work with people who are in denial about their issues or with people (like your husband?) who project their stuff onto other people.

The thing is that you can't change him and its not your responsibility to do so. His problems have become your problems but why should they be? He could chose to modify his behaviour if he valued you/the relationship enough. There is nothing more frustrating than a partner who won't listen, won't try to accommodate your (reasonable) wishes and blames everyone else, especially you!

I'd use your individual counselling sessions as the support network you need to arrive at the place you want (where-ever that is...it might become clearer.) You might have to adopt the broken record technique - keep repeating what your concerns are/what you want and then make sure you back it up with action.

With the benefit of hindsight I should have insisted on a trial separation a few years back when I knew that my marriage was seriously unravelling. By not taking a firm stand, I allowed ex to manipulate me and, yes, emotionally and psychologically abuse me. One of my now grown up children spotted the dynamic and I wish I had come clean four or five years ago when everything kicked off. Physical distance can sometimes be the only answer when you are dealing with someone who is controlling and abusive, even if not overtly so. The abuse tends to escalate when the partner tries to leave so it is better to remove yourself from the situation as much as possible and not allow the abuser to have the power to make you thoroughly miserable. Ex didn't care that I was unhappy and miserable - he just wanted the 'perfect family' and the obedient wife even if I was miserable.

I know he was being unreasonable, but was able to play on my guilt and fear, because if I reversed the situation and thought about how I would react I realized that I would have behaved completely differently. I wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't want to be with me. End of. But with abusers it's all about them and their fragile egos.

It really shouldn't be this hard. I had to get really assertive with my ex. Terry cole has some good tips. My ex didn't
know how to respond when i said i wasn't going to discuss things with him until he could speak respectfully and left him to it!

If you do attend another session please state explicitly that having reflected on her question about abuse in the relationship you consider the primary problem is his verbal/emotional abuse of you.

This is just so true and it's hurting and even angering me so much. I haven't felt this angry before which I think is good. DH is all sweetness and light today. He sent me a text today apologising for waking me at 3am yesterday (he came home from an event much later than expected and forgot his key). I just know he's going to 'turn it on' but he's turned it on before and nothing changes longterm. I'm at my limit now.

if I reversed the situation and thought about how I would react I realized that I would have behaved completely differently

This is the crazy part. He has criticised me so much at times. One time, I actually said, 'why are you with me so if i'm that bad?' and he answered, 'I don't know!' I know it was in the heat of the moment. But anyhow, whenever I suggest separation, which would set us free, he clams up, turns it on and turns in to a vulnerable little thing. I find it very hard to follow through then. Practically impossible.

I'm not sure my counsellor is trained enough in the dynamics of abuse or even in MC. She has been a psych for 10 years and has a lot of experience with young people and did a course on MC but I don't think it's her forté. I suppose I have to accept that she doesn't know us yet either and I can't judge too harshly based on one session.

I suppose I have to accept that she doesn't know us yet either and I can't judge too harshly based on one session.

Or... just a thought, this might be more of the same, when you do all the accommodation. I can see that one session is just the beginning, and i can see that there might be uncomfortable truths that are surfaced, but i would be disappointed if i came away thinking, well we are just getting started.

The idea above that you frame the problem for you as being the target of verbal abuse, would be the most promising way forward. All the best.

“I'm not sure my counsellor is trained enough in the dynamics of abuse or even in MC. She has been a psych for 10 years and has a lot of experience with young people and did a course on MC but I don't think it's her forté. I suppose I have to accept that she doesn't know us yet either and I can't judge too harshly based on one session.”

No you don’t have to accept that at all. You can trust your judgement and instinct. She could get to know you more but she still wouldn’t be well trained or experienced in dealing with abuse, would she?

Are you still getting counselling for yourself? I think that is key here. I also think the freedom programme would probably be helpful.

@FinallyHere

Thanks. If I go back, that's what I'll do.

@AnotherEmma

Yeah I know ... I emailed a few therapists this afternoon & asked them if they had much experience of couples counselling and/or abuse.

I don't to come out of those even more blurry & confused by all of this.

**I don't want to come out of this even more blurry & confused by it all (sorry: texting the message).

I haven't been back for counselling. He's no expert in abuse but he did actually say ''twas abuse in our very first session.

I'm giving this some thought & trying to decide what's best.

The ones who have experience of abuse should refuse to see you together.

I'm a therapist and even I'm not a fan of couples counselling! It has the potential to be so damaging. Individual is much better and people benefit much more imo.

@PsychedelicSheep

Thanks for that. It's very good to hear it from a therapist's perspective. I suppose the term 'abuse' so often means physical violence and for all I know this lady thinks we've both contributed to his 'shouting.' Maybe not. We'll see.

A friend of mine (B) went to couples counselling with her partner recently. I recommended the therapist as another friend of mine had seen her with her partner previously and found her really good.

It was awful. B's partner has narcissistic traits (although is not abusive as such) and behaved totally differently in the sessions to how he did at home, really smarmed up to the counsellor 😠 I'd warned B he might do this and she did explicitly call him out on it there several times but the counsellor didn't pay any attention.

The counsellor got totally the wrong impression of the situation and seemed to blame B for most of the problems in their relationship. She is quite a strong character and can come across as quite angry but it's because he's a nightmare and deserves it!

In the end after 6 sessions or so she said she couldn't help them, I think she basically implied they should split up (which they should!). But she really should have picked up on his gaslighting and covert narcissism and I felt she missed lots of important elements of their dynamic.

In fairness to the counsellor it must be so hard to get an accurate representation of what someone is like in a one hour session a week, especially when they're deliberately putting a on a front.

Which made me think, what's the point of couples counselling then? Unless both parties are genuinely committed to making changes and being totally transparent there's too much scope for it making things worse, which it did in this case.

Thanks for that. It brought up a lot of rage in me to be honest!

...myself and DH went for counselling before this (around 6 or 7 sessions, I think). What you described above is very similar to what happened with us. In our first session, I was trying to somehow get through to her how difficult things were (but I know I wasn't as overt as I am now) and I brought something up from the previous year. She said 'X, are you the kind of person who's always bringing things up from the past? How can you deal with the present if you're always dwelling on the past?' That level of utter confrontation would've been fine if she had been like that with both of us...she really wasn't. She pussy-footed around DH and even said at one point in our 5th session, 'now I'm stretching you...' with a big smile on her face before supposedly challenging him on screaming at me in the middle of the night. That was in our 5th session. I would go so far as to say that she empathised with him. She said things like 'that's perfectly valid,' 'of course you feel that way' to him and she never once said anything of the kind to me. She even got quite snappy with me a few times.

For context, I generally get along with people and I don't have arguments with anyone other than my DH. I really felt like she didn't get it or me. I feel enraged when I think about it.

Sorry for the long spiel. Reading your post just really brought it back and I feel so angry thinking about it. Do you think I should write that counsellor a letter telling her how let down I was by the whole thing? I've often thought that I shouldn't have just let her away with it.

We stopped going after around 6 sessions because nothing was changing or improving. We just didn't go back; so we never had a final session to wrap things up and she never contacted me (I was organising the whole thing despite DH constantly getting me to rearrange times or finding something more important to go to) after that.

Phew. Rant over! Sorry...I just had to let that out.

I told DH that unless he brought his authentic self in to counselling this time, I would discontinue it immediately.

He didn't do the schmoozing, smiling and joking he did with the last lady but when I brought up him cursing at me, he made out like the cursing was at things or just in general. He tried to make it seem like my issue was with cursing itself. I then had to say, 'no, I'm talking about when it's directed at me.' He knew that well but was just chancing his arm.

Anyhow, I'm giving it one more session only and to be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if I have any faith in it either but this is my marriage and I need to feel like I've done all I can (even though it'll look like I just upped and left if I do leave) I couldn't agree more with this:
Unless both parties are genuinely committed to making changes and being totally transparent there's too much scope for it making things worse, which it did in this case.

“ Do you think I should write that counsellor a letter telling her how let down I was by the whole thing?”

I think you should complain/report to the professional body she is registered with.

She no longer works for the org that she was with at the time (I just checked online). To be honest, I'm actually starting to agree that MC isn't the answer. I just wish to God I could get the courage to leave our life together. Apart from the emotional devastation, I don't know what I'd do practically.

Okay...just to give you all a little update.

I've decided not to proceed with couples' counselling. I don't think it'll help us in any way. I can't get over her mitigating the abuse and that's exactly what she did. My mind is now brimful of examples of abuse and I'm sort of shocked at myself for soldiering on given what's been going on.

I'm really not sure how to proceed. I'll continue with my own private sessions and I appreciate any support from Mumsnet as I'm a bit of a stressed out wreck (but won't always be and that's a promise to myself!).

I'm going to tell DH that I won't be proceeding with it. It's up to him to seek individual counselling if he so wishes but it's not looking good. A split is looking most likely.

Am glad to read you have reached that conclusion re couples counselling.

Knowledge is power here and I would look into getting legal advice re your situation as soon as you are able to do so. Contacting Womens Aid and the Rights of Women organisations could be of great help to you as well.

In order for couples counseling to be successful, both partners must be willing to take responsibility for their actions and make adjustments to their behaviour. Abusive people want all of the power and control in the relationship and will focus on maintaining that imbalance, even if it means continuing unhealthy and hurtful behavior patterns. Such couples counseling fails because of an abusive partner’s focus on manipulating the sessions to place blame, minimize the abuse, and attempt to win over the therapist to their side. If the therapist tries to hold the abusive partner accountable for these tactics, they will often refuse to attend further sessions and may even forbid their partner to see the “biased” therapist again. The abusive partner may even choose to escalate the abuse because they feel their power and control was threatened.

Abuse is not a “relationship problem.” Couples counseling may imply that both partners contribute to the abusive behaviour, when the choice to be abusive lies solely with the abusive partner. Focusing on communication or other relationship issues distracts from the abusive behaviour, and may actually reinforce it in some cases. Additionally, a therapist may not be aware that abuse is present and inadvertently encourage the abuse to continue or escalate.
Both partners should feel and be safe in order for therapy to be effective. A victim may not feel safe with their abuser present and could be hesitant to fully participate or speak honestly during counseling sessions. Alternatively, a victim may have a false sense of security during a session and reveal information they normally wouldn’t disclose. Then, back at home, the abusive partner could decide to retaliate with more abuse.

Recent replies from other respondents have shown clear examples of the above in couples counselling.

Focusing on communication or other relationship issues distracts from the abusive behaviour, and may actually reinforce it in some cases
This is what I'm most worried about.

Additionally, a therapist may not be aware that abuse is present and inadvertently encourage the abuse to continue or escalate
this is exactly how I felt the last time.

Both partners should feel and be safe in order for therapy to be effective
I don't feel this.

I'm beginning to realise just how difficult it can be to find a good therapist. You're trusting them with your heart and soul and most intimate world. That's not easy.

I have told this story in Mumsnet before. Counselling saved our marriage. Not in the way you would expect. She was obsessed by my childhood and convinced we should split up. My DH eventually turned round to me and said "shall we stay together just to piss her off?" And that was all we needed to be a team again.
She was vile and hugely unprofessional

@Pebbles16

I hope you're happily married now.

I'm also a therapist and often think that people are too quick to stick with one therapist - it's a tricky relationship and it needs to be right. Feeling safe is the most important aspect. The best therapist i have found is the least skilled but i have the best rapport with. There is definitely variation in how good/skilled/self aware different therapists are and good supervision is essential for quality control. I would ask how often they have supervision and with whom (they should tell you this as part of the confidentiality blurb). Oh and I'd never practice with couples unless I felt incredibly skilled and had lots of training.

As regards my own couples counselling, it has become apparent that dh feels the problem lies mostly with me (and my pesky feelings) so I won't do continue if he feels he has nothing to work on himself.

I hope you reach some conclusions on it all. Life is bloody hard sometimes

Thanks.

Time isn’t on your side here fertility wise, so energy would be well focused on investigating the practicalities of leaving, as that is what you are very likely to do at some point anyway. The sooner you do it the better for you IMO.

Don’t assume you won’t cope.

Don’t assume you won’t cope.

Thanks! I have to keep saying that over and over again to myself.

Time certainly isn't on my side fertility-wise. It's becoming clearer every day what's going to happen. DH had his personal session today.