Experience of relationship counselling?

[Smozzles]

Howdy! So, my husband and I had our first session of marriage counselling. We're at two very different stages. I have one foot out of the marriage to be honest. He has a quick temper and it's not scary; just tiresome and counter-productive. I've lost a lot of affection for him as a result, even though I still love him and find him attractive...a bit complicated, I know.

After 1 long session (1.5 hours), I feel wrecked. I sort of feel, 'why should I have to undergo all this therapy when he is the one with the problem?' I know that sounds like I'm being a brat but I hope I'm not. I've been seeing an individual therapist for months and the therapist has been calling my husband verbally abusive. My husband says that's because it's totally one-sided and he's not hearing his side of the story. Meanwhile, when I told the marriage therapist that my husband shouts and curses at me, she said, 'and what do you do that's not healthy?' I answered the question honestly by saying I find it hard to let things go. I know therapists have to ascertain what they're dealing with but looking back on the session, I just feel enraged by that. I think my husband needs individual counselling, not marriage counselling.

I also feel depleted and exhausted. Have any of you had a positive outcome from couples' counselling? Do you see its worth?

A lot of what ye have written has me thinking. I didn't think I'd be considering divorce at 38 years of age but I am.

I'm starting to think I deserve a lot better than this crap. I'm worried that I'm losing faith in men. I think I'd be afraid to try again if I get out of this.

Unfortunately by his teenage years it was too late, the damage was already done and well entrenched. This man grew up seeing all this from childhood and is now a carbon copy of his dad. His familial background was a red flag here.

Those were indeed apology flowers and are another weapon of choice in the arsenal of the abusive man. I would also think that image and how plausible he appears to be to those in the outside world are highly important to him.

I would also think his session with her this week will be cancelled or otherwise strung out by him to get her to come around to his way of thinking. He is really a master manipulator and such men too hate women, all of them.

I would strongly urge you not to enter into any more joint counselling sessions. I also doubt very much that her session with your H will be at all successful as well because its really his way or no way. The abuser never co-operates.

The only level of abuse acceptable in a relationship is NONE.

I think you can start again and dig your way out of the hole he has dug for you. You're 38 now, make your future years on this planet a lot happier. Its not too late and do not make yourself feel too afraid to try again.

Not all men are abusive and there are many nice non abusive ones out there. You need time and space away from your abuser to heal yourself and enrolling yourself onto the Freedom Programme by Womens Aid will be a start here. Please look into this programme and do this in person if at all possible.

I think Attila’s advice is often spot on and i agree that the counselling is not helpful (I said so myself much earlier in the thread) but I don’t think there is enough information about the DH and his behaviour to confidently declare that he is a “carbon copy” of his father and there is a systematic pattern of abuse.

He is verbally abusive. That much is clear. He is probably abusive in other ways too. But the fact is that the verbal abuse is enough to end the relationship. As Attila and others often say, the only acceptable level of abuse is none.

I agree that you should report the counsellor to BACP. She has a woefully poor understanding of abuse if she dismissed the verbal abuse in that way.

The only level of abuse acceptable in a relationship is NONE.
Very true and often not the case!

She has a woefully poor understanding of abuse if she dismissed the verbal abuse in that way.
True. It made me feel like shit. I wonder would she put up with someone shouting and cursing at her regularly.

I could probably write a lot more and give you examples of DH's behaviour etc but I'm not here for that. I was hoping to find out if the way I'm feeling is normal and if there's any way out of this. One PP did say her husband took extensive individual therapy and conquered his demons. I think the reason DH has never done anything about it is because he hasn't had to. I've put up with it...like a fool. As if I didn't deserve better.

Yes, I do have a tendency to always see the best in people. I have friendships that I've held on to when I know others would've cut them loose and even though I've quite a confident, assertive exterior, when it comes to personal relationships, I'm a softie beyond all measure.

I'm not sure exactly yet what I'm going to do. I'm going to let DH go to his own session and see what happens and I think I will go to the next couples' one to see what comes of it. Maybe.

It's not looking good though.

I wish I had found Mumsnet a long, long time ago...famous last words I suppose!

Your counsellor casually asked about abuse in front of both of you?!! That is terrible practice! I would call her on it tbh - any therapist with a grain of training knows it's not the situation but how it makes you feel. It wouldn't matter if a partner was only raising their voice - if that caused fear in their partner then it's important and needs to be addressed (just an example, not your situation I know).

I hope you figure out what to do

She said a first session is an 'intake session' and so she asked us a series of interview-style questions. They helped to break the ice. The questions were where we came in the family, any major stressful events recently, any illnesses, any addictions and any abuse in the relationship. I didn't like that we said 'no' to abuse because actually feel there is abuse in the relationship. I know it could be worse, believe me. I've read what people go through here but I do hate it and have for a very long time. I told DH in the past that it was hard for me because I always swore I wouldn't be with a man with a temper and that my father was shouty growing up. But that wasn't enough for DH to stop and that hurts too.

Smozzles it sounds as if behaviour is his choice at the moment and there are no consequences for him. I know what I found hard was being raged at one minute and then him calling me cold and unaffectionate when I wasn't keen to cuddle up/have sex later.
Resentment build because of this and that he never appologised for the rages. Is your dh able to discuss difficult subjects/compromise etc?

"WE said no to abuse". Thing is, he isn't being abused, it's you being abused. He's unlikely to refer to himself as abusive, it's much easier to put blame on you...

I get the reason for ice breaker questions but asking about abuse in that way in couples counselling is totally inappropriate. I'm probably more the shouty one in our marriage but I am trying to change... people often recommend Lundy Bancroft books on here such as Why does he do that? Might be worth a browse.

@Itsnotok
She said has there been any big incidents of abuse like throwing things at each other or physical violence and then we said no to that.

@Misty9
Yeah I'll have a look at that book. I've looked up Lundy on Youtube before after reading someone else's thread where people recommended it.

You say you're the shouty one in your marriage but I'm guessing it's not as bad as I've described? Or is that your husband isn't bothered by it?

@Itsnotok

I just saw your first message...

To answer your question Is your dh able to discuss difficult subjects/compromise etc?, he'll do anything to avoid difficult subjects. He really will. I always have to be the one to bring up everything, which I think might be quite common. As for compromise, it can depend on what it is. He's not this horrible domineering man but he can be unflinching on certain things. We're having major issues around this at the moment, which he brought up in MC. It was funny as I think he was expecting her to just say, 'yeah you need to decide' but instead she said that how could we possibly make such big decisions when the relationship isn't secure.

verbal abuse is basically caused by a woman being a pain in the butt.

Yeh, right and all the sins of the world are directly related to Eve eating that apple.

If your daughter was telling you that someone was shouting at her and cursing her, would you be trying to help her see how she was complicit in the abuse .... or telling her to get out as soon as possible?

Interestingly, he appears to be able to control his temper with ... everyone except you. When a toddler does that, we say oh, they feel secure in your love so they can let their feeling out. I don't buy the story that an adult deserves the same excuse.

she takes no crap now

so why are you taking it from her son? Sorry for what you are going through @Smozzles , but nothing i have read here would encourage me to think that what you need is relationship counselling. All the best.

So he will compromise where he doesn't have a strong view then?! How do you deal with things which need true discussion and compromise to reach a joint decision? In my case, this always ended with him going into a rage (if i didnt agree), decide what the decision was and then acuse me of trying to start a row if I brought it up again if i felt it was unresolved. Once kids are in the mix, it gets a whole lot more complicated...like who stays home when they're ill and who does all the nursery takes and pick ups.

@FinallyHere

Oh look it, I don't believe that spiel about it being that a woman is a pain in the butt. I was just interested in this entire concept of the Surrendered Wife movement and surprised it exists in our time! Having said that, if I did everything she advocates (let the man take complete charge, never comment on anything he does or his driving, only give an opinion when asked etc), I'm sure DH and I would never have an argument again.

What troubles me about that is that it doesn't address the man's anger, it just creates an environment that keeps it under the surface.

I think you're right FinallyHere and I think I knew that when I sat opposite that therapist and beside DH. I think I know I'll leave. I just don't know when and how. When I bring it up, surprise surprise!, he acts shocked and vulnerable and I find very difficult indeed to persevere.

@Itsnotok

In my case, this always ended with him going into a rage (if i didnt agree), decide what the decision was and then acuse me of trying to start a row if I brought it up again if i felt it was unresolved.

Yeah ditto to all of that

Even setting aside his verbal abuse, sounds like the relationship makes you miserable, and that he seems unlikely to “get it” and change his behaviour. Might be best to cut your losses.

If he can hold it in at work etc he doesn’t have a problem with his temper, his problem is he thinks it’s fine to treat you like this.

@Loopytiles

He's had a few incidents in work over the years but not in a long time. It's like he's learned his lesson in there now. We have certain rituals that are nice and we're both in to taking it easy in free time (I have friends where one is really high octane and the other chilled and it ruins their leisure time). But yeah, I know...I might be better off cutting my losses. It's just hard after being married to him and sort of dreaming of a different future. I thought we'd have children and a better set-up by now!

his problem is he thinks it’s fine to treat you like this.

That's the part that hurts the most. I sometimes think I've probably lowered my standards with him too. I'm not aggressive but I think I've become more distant and less interested.

He has clearly learnt not to behave like it at work, but feels free to do so at home.

Perhaps at the next session say explicitly that you think the primary problem in the relationship is his regular verbal abuse and sulking (if that applies too). Seems likely he won’t agree.

Can understand your concern re the future and DC given your age, but it’s the sad reality that things haven’t worked out as you hoped. parenthood is a massive pressure on relationships and tempers! Your H is very obviously not going to handle that well.

@Looptiles

Verbal abuse and storming off are the primary problems IMHO. He'll say I'm blaming everything on him. I don't want to be that woman who's always blaming the man but I do think certain behaviour is just not acceptable.

Yeah I'm sort of heartbroken at the thoughts of leaving him because leaving him is more than leaving him. It's also possibly accepting I may never have children. This is not the future I imagined when I married him.

@Looyptiles I meant

Trust your judgment: you are clear his behaviour is the primary issue, and are not at all U for thinking or saying it. You didn’t cause the abuse.

It must be really hard to be staring down the barrel of a future potentially without DC, but leaving would open up lots of new possibilities, and sadly that’s also the situation you’re in with your H, since it would be a terrible plan to have DC with him.

Would you trust him, for example, not to escalate his abuse were you pregnant or on maternity leave? Would you trust him to be patient and capable in sole charge of a stroppy toddler?

Trust your judgment My therapist said the same thing. How did I go from trusting my instincts to all of this second guessing? Is there a good way to build up self-esteem?

Would you trust him, for example, not to escalate his abuse were you pregnant or on maternity leave?
I don't think I'd be afraid of this to be perfectly honest. I really don't think he'd be physically violent with me. He just (for want of a better word) has a very short fuse and temper with me.

Would you trust him to be patient and capable in sole charge of a stroppy toddler?
To be honest, no!...which is why we don't have kids, I suppose!

The more you post, the more it seems that it’s not “just” verbal abuse (although that’s bad in itself) and it is part of a pattern.

I’m sorry that you want children and don’t have them because the relationship isn’t right, but it’s a really bloody good thing that you don’t have children with this man.

The sooner you leave him the sooner you can think about other options for becoming a mother.