DP doesn't want to marry me

[NC4THIS11]

We have one DC and I'm pregnant with our second, the past few months I've realised how much I'd love to get married. I haven't pressurised him nor have I asked him, but I've dropped a few hints for him to know its something I'm hoping for. I do want security for me and the DC but more importantly I love him and want to spend my life with him.

I saw a beautiful (but not expensive) ring in the windows of a jewellers and text him as my birthday was coming up, i told him about the ring and reminded him of my size and even made it as blatant as saying "hint hint ;)" in a jovial way, of course. That's the only time I've been so brave!

He twigged on and smiled, saying he'll see what he can do. I was elated. My birthday came and so did lovely gifts, but no ring. I had really gotten my hopes up, but I know that's my problem not his.

He has been engaged twice before and neither relationship lead to marriage. The first was in his early twenties to a longstanding girlfriend of 3 years and the second was the mother of his older DC, a relationship of 7 years. It seems he likes the idea of being engaged, just not to me?

A part of me wonders whether he's not fully committing because he thinks his ex will make an issue of it, there's been an atmosphere between she and i since we got together 4 years ago. She is happily attached but makes things difficult for DP when he has a woman in his life.

Should I just accept he's not interested in marrying me or should I speak to him properly and tell him how I'm feeling? I feel so awkward after the birthday misunderstanding, if you can call it that.

Totally agree Cornwall

I’m sorry op, but your situation is become more and more common now.

As a society women are being told not to ask for things like marriage and babies in case we ‘scare off’ a man. We’re called crazy or a whole host of other names if we neglect to wait the appropriate 2/3 years before broaching those subjects.

I read an interesting article recently about how women are encouraged to down play wanting marriage and kids whilst in the early stages of dating ‘I’m not sure, maybe one day’ seems to be the appropriate response to being asked about it.

FFS! Why waste 2/3 with somebody if you’re not going to get what you want in life? As women, who want children, we don’t have endless time.

My ex (M29) was (on the surface) quite a catch and strong character. he’d dated a girl for 3 years pre me, lived with her, got her to go back to uni so she was financially dependent on him...etc.

Apparentky she’d ‘suddenly’ started pestering him to get married (shock horror she wanted to get married after 3 years!) and that’s why he’d broken up with her. When I asked why he didn’t marry her he just shrugged his shoulders and said ‘I never intended to marry her but she never asked me to so we got on fine. She was a nice girl but not ‘the one’.’

Anyway a few months into relationship I told that guy I would not be like his ex and if I didn’t have a ring within the year I would be gone. He proposed shortly after, unexpectedly. I remember his ex texting him after she heard he has done it (he’d gushed to his friends who also knew her) I didn’t accept as I couldn’t quite get over the Disregard he’d had for that poor girl.
I don’t think he was a very nice guy deep down, actually.

Current DP and I are planning to marry next summer. He’s a much nicer, honest, reliable guy and our relationship is healthier than I ever thought one could be 🙈 with absoloutley no alarm bells!

I was open from day 1 about what I wanted and DP wants it too. Yay. But I was told so many times not to be so frank as I’d scare him off (nope DP is just as committed to the marriage/babies plan as I am).

As women it’s like we can’t win, we’re expected to have a ring and a home and a baby by the time we’re in our 30’s but also not to tell a guy that’s what we want, whilst also building a fabulous career!

OP, does he realise how absolutely gutted you are? I mean does he really realise? You’ve told all of us, which is cathartic for you, but it sounds like your discussions with him have been fairly brief?

I know it’s humiliating but it’s important that he understands how very upset you are at the death of your dreams. Otherwise, he’s missing a vital piece of information.

I recently tried to explain modern dating/house buying/ life to my mum (who met my father at 16 and is still married) she liked my explanation so I’ll share it with you.

‘It’s like the moment you turn 21 you start playing this big game of life/ relationship monopoly in the living room and there like 10 of you in the group.

3 don’t want to play so they sit on the sofa and drink wine and laugh at everyone playing the stupid game.
4 play but don’t take it super seriously, they’re not really in the market to buy stuff and they disappear to the kitchen and get shouted at when it’s their turn.
3 take it seriously and get called crazy douches.

A few years pass the 4 none serious player suddenly start taking more interest, they’re buying the occasional thing, putting hotels on them and not missing their turns. The 3 serious players are still doing pretty well, they’re making the right moves but there’s still time for the others to catch up.

Suddenly (around the 10 year mark) 2 of the three on the sofa stop laughing, sober up and decide that Monopoly is everything they’ve actually ever wanted, so they’re grabbing a piece and trying furiously to catch up with everyone else despite most of the stuff already been bought up. They repeatedly ask the rest of the group for reasurance that it’s not too late to catch up and rely on chance cards to even the score.

The game winds to a close about 15-20 years after it began. At which point there’s still that one girl drunk on the sofa giggling to herself. Two scrambling to buy the one property still available as they joined WAY too late.
There’s 3 who played well and hard from the start but have just gotten unlucky and gone bankrupt through little fault of their own and then there’s the other 4 who celebrate the end of the game from their owned family homes with their DH and 3 children, sipping a glass of supermarket proseco and worrying about their early start at their decent job tomorrow.

He knew how I felt about marriage, he should have told me this from the beginning, then would I heck have made a family with him. I feel I've been lead a merry dance.

To be fair, he hasn't led you on at all. He hasn't been saying to you over and over that you'll get married. This is the first time you've even had a discussion with him about it.

A few years ago he actually said he would like to get married "at some point" it was a throwaway comment and he probably thinks I wouldn't have remembered. I did.

I think this is telling. It was an offhand comment from him, a nothing comment and not followed up, but you've remembered it. You've saved it like a love kernel, where these small insignificant things help you to hang onto him and tell yourself he's something he's not.

He hasn't really led you on, because you haven't discussed anything at all, he has always felt you were fine with this because you never said otherwise. And have presumed him being engaged twice but never married was a sign he really wanted marriage, without asking for details about this until now.

Good luck OP.

“If marriage is a deal breaker then you need to ask yourself why you have put yourself in a position where you have concieved two children before a serious discussion around this had taken place.”

This.

I wonder if part of your anger and upset is at yourself (as well as him) for getting to this point?

However, I agree with PPs who say that you and your partner need to do more talking. You’ve only had one conversation and that was on the phone wasn’t it? You both need time to digest and revisit the conversation, probably several times.

And upsetting though this is, i think you would do well to try and stay calm when expressing yourself and hearing him out.

He might see your point of view in the end, he might not. But give him chance.

I was in this situation for several years and like OP felt it more when pregnant with DS2. Similarly I felt uncomfortable with putting myself in a category of looking like I was 'pestering for marriage' and this has over time built up resentment in me. Ten years later however our financial situations, aside from our shared monies are very different. He has had major stress/depression and been very difficult emotionally to live with. He jacked in his job earlier this year because of it And is now hardly earning. My finances are significantly more robust and my job has recently taken off. And even though marriage has been muttered about by him in the last few years, I see it as a undesirable risk now as our relationship has changed hugely. Just a thought anyway.. as other posters say it is worth considering financial risk and security in future scenarios albeit that isn't very romantic! Things change so it's worth looking at the impact of the legalities on you personally as well. X

but I'm not going to harangue him over it as he has every right to not want to marry and although i'm absolutely gutted about that, I have to accept it.

By going back to work FT, increasing your earning power and sharing expenses proportionally. You know the score now. Stop enabling him at the expense of your financial security, even the roof over your head, but working PT or being a SAHM. And not having any more children with him. You have no rights as an unmarried partner other than to child maintenance and/or perhaps what you put into a house if it's on paper.

You could say that if he would marry you you would be eternally grateful

Seriously? Why should anyone ever say that.

Definitely agree with going back to work at least part time if you can face it. At least DP and I both did part time after children so that career risk was shared. If he won't marry then you both sharing the childcare is a reasonable requirement.. with the equal hit on your respective jobs and income. Personally, looking back. I did find it hard to negotiate fiercely when pregnant. And for that reason I failed with the name issue. I do regret that.

I’m so sorry OP.

Have you thought about logistics and who will go where if you break up?

I think your story is a very sad lesson to others reading, to have those conversations before doing anything to tie yourself to someone (buying property or having children) to make sure you’re on the same page instead of assuming.

From your DP’s side I can see his point too: he’s probably thinking ‘why the hell has she never made it clear before now she needs marriage if it’s so important? Why has she had two kids with me if being married is such a deal breaker? Why didn’t she communicate clearly it’s what she wants non negotiable before we got this far?’

He’s probably had the idea that you’d like marriage but aren’t fussed, or you wouldn’t have had his children and be living with him without it.

You both share some blame here as to how things have gotten this bad, but all you can do now is decide what you want in your future.

A long term unmarried relationship with the father of your children or to strike out alone and aim someday for a happy marriage with someone else with stepkids involved.

I suspect your sadness and anger at your boyfriend will probably wreck the relationship slowly anyway. With resentment.

Love and security are the 2 primary reasons to get married. However love and security exist outside marriage. Both situations only come about when you communicate honestly at all stages of your relationship. When you get together, when you realise your are falling for each other, when you move in, when you decide to have children.

Neither marriage or cohabitation will work without honest and open communication. Hints, assumptions and wishful thinking based on throw away comments or increasingly outdated societal mores will not replace the need to be honest and open with each other.

To find out after years that your partner wants marriage and you don’t or vice versa is going to be a shock on both sides. However both need to accept responsibility for not having this discussion before. The way the discussion has been described and the behaviours by both OP and her DP are really immature and tbh both are letting down their children.

It’s also worth assessing if a marriage will offer financial security. It’s not always the case and as somebody has mentioned earlier may not be the case here. There are no assets and he already has 2 children to provide for. So unless he is a very high earner the OP may well need to continue to work. He will always have a legal requirement to pay child support to the 4 children. He does need a will but with 4 children to 2 mothers it may not be in the OPs favour.

However I think the OP wants the ring and marriage as a sign of love more than anything. I don’t think you need this but if she does and he doesn’t they have problems. But I think married or not, there are problems in this relationship that they are both not addressing and marriage will not solve them.

Oh bloody hell I’m so sorry

You sound entirely sensible to stop cooking and washing for him. And as for sleeping with him? I wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole.

When he questions it, do you have any ideas about what you might say?

Good post user, I agree with all that.

You've only had ONE conversation about this OP (from his POV totally out of the blue whilst he was at work).
I think you are totally reasonable in everything you feel but you need to talk to him again before just walking away. He will have no idea how much pain this has been causing you because you've been keeping quiet until ready to explode.

This could be irrelevant I don't know his specific difficulties but is he generally able to anticipate the impact of different scenarios for others or just himself? My relative has autism and needs someone to help him understand how other people might think, what might hurt their feelings etc. Can he anticipate your child's needs and feelings? Once my relative has the opportunity to hear it from the other angles he totally gets it. He just can't think it himself, self initiated ifyswim.

I suppose what I'm getting at is, is he just selfish and uncaring towards you or are you expecting things of him he can't do and he shows this elsewhere therefore it's not personal (although you'd still need to make plans for your financial security either way). You don't have to answer, just trying to help.

Hi all

So he's acting like yesterday never happened, just like I suspected he would. He called me from work this morning, I didn't answer then he sent a lovey dovey text saying he's going to be a bit late. Good morning beautiful etc.

That is something that really irks me, he just glosses over the cracks. If I were to look upset or annoyed when he gets in this morning he'd then ask what's wrong and be genuinely baffled. When there's a disagreement I like it to be resolved so we can move forward, not be stuck dwelling.

In this case I don't see how we could move past this whist were both on opposite pages, I would respect his position if he sat me down and was open, said he's truly sorry if in hurt or disappointed but he really doesn't want marriage and explained in detail why. He won't even do that, it'll be down to me now to just 'get over it' myself as though I don't deserve a thorough explanation

I don't even know if he realises how upset I was last night, I'm not a moody cow by nature so its not like me to hang up on him. If he couldn't tell I was choked up then he's clueless.

Talk of the devil he's just walked in

He can anticipate and understand DD's needs just fine he's very tuned in to her.

He does sometimes struggle to take hints when I'm hinting to him, he doesn't like jokes because he doesn't always 'get' them. His autism does cause some social difficulties but not on a large scale.

You need to talk to him again properly. You also probably need to not let your emotions get the better of you right now

How is your relationship generally? Are you happy and is he a good partner? A good father? Supportive of you and loving towards you? If so, you'd be very foolish indeed to just bin that off in a hurry

Try another chat. Previous posters are right in that some people just don't want to get married - however you desperately do. So someone needs to back down here because there isn't a compromise is there? So the only answer right now is to talk more.

I'd then consider options after the baby arrives and you're in a routine and more settled. No silly games, no changing stuff you normally do purely to be passive aggressive or make a point

Talk to him. It's important to you so it should be important to him.

The relationship is good in general, apart from the communication thing (and now the commitment to marry)

Then that has some value

Do not get carried away with advice on here urging you to leave. Only you can make a decision based on your relationship as a whole

Another chat then park it for now.

OP, don't give up hope yet. I think there are two separate issues here and perhaps they are worth talking about separately. First, there is the communication problem and your partner's stonewalling of any serious conversation. This needs to be addressed as in the future, if you stay together, you will need to have multiple serious conversations about different difficult matters, not just about marriage. Make it clear to your partner that no relationship, marriage or cohabitation, is going to survive if two people cannot talk to each other. Maybe try to get down to the bottom of why he is so afraid of serious conversations (this is a biggie, I know).

The second of course is marriage. And it seems that neither you or your partner have the sufficient background information. Before you speak again, prepare your facts - research the rights that both of you will have as married people. Make a list. Compare the options - marriage/civil partnership/simple cohabitation. Be specific. Make an compare.com-style comparison table, if necessary. I feel you need something concrete to talk about.

So many women believe that 'social constraints ' of the past where having children out of 'wedlock' has made life better for women. That is bullshit. The 'social acceptability' of children out of marriage has made life MUCH more precarious for women

Those social - and legal - constraints also served to make divorce much rarer and divorce much harder.

He has no empathy for you. You 've made his life very happy, satisfying, comfortable and perfect.

He's not prepared to offer or do for you the same.

How utterly humiliating for you to lay it on the line and he outright reject you and not only that, bit to think his words and actions will have zero negative impact on you.

Just wow.

I'm not going to insult people with autism and say that's what he is!

Totally selfish zero empathy is more like sociopathy but we are not keyboard psychiatrists so not worth going there op!!

You deserve so much better: kindness, thoughtfulness, loving care and attention especially now you are pregnant.

Sounds like your partner doesn't even know what these things are.

Sorry op.

You have shown love, care, concern, you have been the perfect lover, housekeeper, cleaner and mother.

Time you patted yourself on the back and realise your true worth!

You are a wonderfully giving person and it is sad you were taken up by a man who has exploited that for his own selfish ends.

If he has autism, then you'll need to be extra blunt and clear. You have every right to be upset and you need to explain to him, in no uncertain terms, why that is. No sugar coating.

I am intrigued that he never thought of marriage as a legal commitment, given that is all it is. I still think that if you could get him to go with you to a solicitor who explains what it means (and what it doesn't), if he's able to change his perception to understand what it actually is then perhaps he might be more keen.

I've just raised it with him again, calmly without being overly emotive.

He said just because he was engaged before doesn't mean he wanted to take it any further and engagement doesn't automatically mean marriage, fair enough it doesn't. I'll give him that. It didn't progress to marriage and after talking with him that's clearly because he didn't want to go through with it.

However taking past engagements out of the equation completely his position is that he doesn't want marriage full stop.

I spoke about the legalities, benefits and security for the children. Widows pensions, next of kinship, children's surnames, equal PR and so on.

I did say his unwillingness to consider it has left me feeling as though I'm not good enough in his eyes, I asked what it was he was waiting for if it wasn't me. I said I'm not trying to argue I just need to understand.

He touched upon the fact he's 'scared of marriage' but ultimately it's because he just doesn't want it.

I said I feel as though long term this will be a deal breaker for me because its something I've always wanted and he knew that, I admitted that i'm looking at him in a different way now because we're on opposite pages. I desperately want something that he does not.

Its clear he'd rather split and pay maintenance than marry me.

Not the most constructive conversation but at least he knows how I feel, I won't be raising it again as that's three times in twenty four hours now and I've felt rejected every time.