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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Starting over after 25 years - Part deux

999 replies

Lily007 · 10/07/2018 10:42

Wow need to start a new thread.

The support I’ve had from all the posters has been amazing and very much appreciated and I hope will continue.

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Cuttingthegrass · 11/09/2018 07:22

Morning Lily. I agree with prepare for the worse and hope for the best but prepare prepare prepare!

I know you believe that him living with her as confirmed by service address provides evidence that he has more disposable income but
he may well argue that he's only been staying at OW temporarily to keep his outgoings low to enable him to continue to pay the mortgage and bills on the marital home when he left to 'give you time to adjust'. He may try to play this as being ''nice' and 'providing support'. You know it's because it would have ruined both your credit ratings if he hadn't done this.

His timing with reducing the amount he was paying together with instructing a solicitor to seek to agree financials could indicate he has a plan and fits well with the argument his current living arrangement is temporary. It's just a thought.

Bluntness100 · 11/09/2018 07:47

Morning

It's an interesting point that maybe your friends opinion is being coloured by your friendship and wanting you to be happy and not worry.

It also played on my mind last night. If he accepted the docs even though they came to her house, he's not denying they are together, or even stays there, then I genuinely can't see why his solicitor has to legally inform you he doesn't live there. Or even that he did live there and has moved out. All they should have to do is tell you what address to use in future, but I'm not a solicitor either and get thr law isn't always logical.

Either way I think it's a good heads up. You get to prepare for worst case, and if it's not necessary then at least you know you were prepared for all eventualities.

I would look at it that way. Not stress about it, think of it as a damned good heads up.

Lily007 · 11/09/2018 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bluntness100 · 11/09/2018 18:06

It sounds like you have it nailed.

For me, as you know I don't genuinely think it's relevant if he lives with her or not, I don't think he can be left in such a financial position that he is reliant on living with her in the same place and being with her for ever more.

He needs to have enough income to also live independently without hardship. But I will bow to your solicitor on this one.

As long as you know what you need, and in the base case, and can prove you'd be suffering undue hardship below that level, I think then you go in high, but you also know what you can't agree to.

Lily007 · 11/09/2018 18:09

Hi Bluntness

Yeah I think you’re right. I’ll go in high and cross everything 🙄

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Bluntness100 · 11/09/2018 18:14

I would. Hit him where it hurts,,,,

Lily007 · 11/09/2018 20:50

Will do ........... hopefully 😬🤞

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AcrossthePond55 · 11/09/2018 22:33

In any bargaining situation it's always best to ask high. That way you may actually get what you really want! (or even more)

Funicorn · 11/09/2018 22:48

For me, as you know I don't genuinely think it's relevant if he lives with her or not, I don't think he can be left in such a financial position that he is reliant on living with her in the same place and being with her for ever more.

This is the case. Doesn't say you can't try but just be prepared for it not to count.

Bluntness100 · 11/09/2018 22:55

Read up on some negotiation techniques.

Zopa is the zone of possible agreement, you both need to know your walk away position, and then find if there is any over lap. In the over lap is where you can both agree.

So you want 1k a month. He offers 200. He will walk at 1k and take his chances in court. You will walk at 200 and take your chances in court . But he won't walk at 600. And you won't walk at 400. As such your zone of possible agreement is within 400 to 600. The numbers are made up obviously.

But you both need to know your absolute walk away number. So you both need to be open to communicating with each other, or the mediator, to find your zone of possible agreement. And you need to consider what else can be thrown in.

For example would either of you give up the value of the equity for increased or decreased monthly payments over a number of years ie ten or twenty? Would you give up pension for an increased lump sum? If so how much will that be? How much would you need to buy a small apartment out right? What about shared ownership where you have minimal rent after? What lump sum do you need for that?

It's basically a negotiation. Think of what your walk away position is. Think of all the things you would accept to sweeten the deal. Think of what you can offer him.for example. If you give me 60k lump sum, (30house equity, 30 other, he just increases current mortgage by 60k) could you buy a shared ownership property, and have a reduction in payments over twenty years? To give you security of a home instead of renting?

It's not a demand, or a blinking competition, it's a negotiation, so understanding what you will and won't accept, what you need, and what he will or won't accept and what he needs will be critical to its success.

Because if you both go in there with no room for movement, then it will go to court, and they will decide. And that could come down to who has the best barrister.

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 06:31

Just catching up with your thread Lily, things have certainly moved on a bit!

I would imagine the 'unofficial' status to him living with her is both because she is claiming some sort of benefit or council tax reduction and that he will say it's temporary to allow him to pay your mortgage. I'm sure at mediation he'll be putting forward living expenses for rental on a new property or mortgage for himself.

Great advice from Bluntness re: Zopa etc. I'm sure you'll have done lots of this already, but agree you need to weigh up all possible scenarios that you are prepared/not prepared to accept. But, as you say, definitely aim high and have convincing arguments to back up your suggestions. It sounds like you have a few weeks to nail everything.

Mediation is going to be a difficult day, but you are a warrior. Remember you're fighting for what is rightfully yours. You will look amazing, remain calm and collected and hopefully wipe the floor with the selfish bastard.

I hope you're doing ok day to day. Annual things like watching strictly together are a bit of a surprise when they come up, as you forget about them until they happen. You have some big things like Christmas/New Year approaching, so make sure you plan lots of lovely things so that you don't have much time to think about what could have been. Hopefully much of the divorce will be done and dusted by then and you can look forward to 2019 as being your fresh start.

I am so impressed with your resilience and the fact that you've kept your sense of humour throughout all this. Us cheerleaders are all willing you to succeed and succeed you will!

Lily007 · 13/09/2018 17:34

Hi Toots

Thanks for the post.

My DS and DIL are already making arrangements for Christmas. We’re going to go out this year so that’ll be a nice change. There’ll be about 10 or 12 of us 😊.

I’ve had another letter from knobhead’s solicitor. It’s 4 bloody pages citing Family Procedure Rules and caselaw. I’ve got a very experienced matrimonial solicitor advising me now. He was a partner at the practice I used to work for but he’s recently moved to another firm. Luckily my best friend has kept in touch with him so she spoke to him yesterday and he rang me last night. We chatted for over an hour and he asked me to send all the documents to him today by email, which I have done.

He’s going to speak to me again over the weekend to advise how best to respond to KH’s solicitor. He thinks they’re trying to “bully” me into negotiating with them instead of mediating. It would seem KH doesn’t want to have to attend mediation appointments. What a bloody coward!

The solicitor advising me now is an absolute genius in dealing with financial issues so I’m feeling much more positive now having him in my corner.

It’s such a difficult situation though. I never thought I’d be in this position at my age and after having worked for 43 years 😢

Got to get my big girl’s pants on and plough through. I just keep telling myself, this time next year I’ll be just fine 🤞

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Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 18:20

That's a total result on the solicitor.

And that's shit he doesn't want to do mediation. Tough, he needs to face you at some point, he better get his head round the idea as it will be either in court or mediation. They prob think you're not being advised so can scare you. Idiots. They will have a surprise coming.

It also says a lot about you as a person that people are willing to help. 😇

I'm guessing no one wants to help him.

Lily007 · 13/09/2018 20:19

Thanks Bluntness. Yes I’m really relieved I’ve got someone who’ll advise me and who I can totally trust.

I don’t particularly want to see him either but I can’t allow him to walk all over me so I’ll do whatever is necessary to get a fair settlement.

It’s a horrible situation and the sooner we get everything sorted and I can get on with my life, the better.

It’s been the longest 6 months of my life but I’ve picked myself up and I’m ready to battle, if necessary. The thought that he doesn’t want to mediate makes me more determined to go that route.

It seems, once again, he may have underestimated me 👿

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Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 21:09

You've probably surprised him at every step of this to be honest, from going no contact, to thr divorce to mediation, and now this,,,,keep going. And surprise him some more.

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 21:14

Good that you're making Christmas plans Lily.

I've just been chuckling, couldn't for the life of me think what KH stood for...the first thing that popped into my head was Ken Hom GrinThen realised you'd said Knobhead earlier. He really is isn't he?!!

And yes, total cowardy custard for not daring to face you for mediation. So delighted for you now you've got Shit Hot Lawyer on the case. He'll help you nail him to the wall. You can run but you can't hide KH KEN HOM 🤣

Lily007 · 13/09/2018 21:36

Ken Hom 🤣🤣🤣

Thanks Bluntness and Toots for your advice and support. I really appreciate it 😘

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Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 21:45

Kenhom 🤣🤣🤣

Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 21:49

Seriously this just totally creased me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

He’s going to speak to me again over the weekend to advise how best to respond to Ken homs solicitor. He thinks they’re trying to “bully” me into negotiating with them instead of mediating. It would seem Ken Hom doesn’t want to have to attend mediation appointments. What a bloody coward

I can hardly type for laughing 🤣🤣🤣🤣

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 21:53

At least you can keep the wok Lily 😝

I think half of Mumsnet must be rooting for you and willing you to come out the other side victorious after being treated so badly.

After this, anyone going through a divorce will ask themselves: WWLD? (What would Lily do?)

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 21:55

Ken Hom 🤣 just shows how strangely my mind works!

Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 21:58

Seriously that tickled me, 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lilly from now on he must be referred to as ken hom. When you see him, think ken hom. You're nerves will dissipate immediately,,,

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 22:06

WWKD (what would Ken Do?) 😂

Bluntness100 · 13/09/2018 22:30

God, I really want his real name to be ken. 🤣🤣🤣

tootstastic · 13/09/2018 22:46

Oh so do I Bluntness!

Lily, the problem is you'd never be able to keep a straight face at mediation thinking of Ken's little smiley face Grin