Starting over after 25 years - Part deux

[Lily007]

Wow need to start a new thread.

The support I’ve had from all the posters has been amazing and very much appreciated and I hope will continue.

Cuttingthegrass. I have sent you a DM.

sunflowers everything else is NOT random opinion - it is factual (from me certainly) based on 5 divorces that I know about in the last year .

Yes, if a guy is living with an OW then her income details MAY well be requested BUT even then they do not in ALL cases affect the outcome of split eg pension and property . I know one where it did and one where it didn't . It all depends on the capability of solicitors, barristers and even down to the judge on the day and their attitudes /tendencies . Sometimes a settlement is made on court day but pre court with barristers and even then yes all very costly - tens of thousands of pounds.

Lily I never suggested for one second that you are naive and you have my sympathy as I have been exactly in your situation and I know just how awful it is hence why my comments on some of what has been said have been tempered . I really wish you well

You're strong Lily and it sounds like you have great legal advice, so I'm sure you'll get the best possible outcome for you.

The XH arranging artificial flowers down the market sounds pretty sad and doesn't sound fitting of a man who was so bothered about his image. And those artificial flowers are usually bloody awful!

Hope you're enjoying the bank holiday and the sunshine has found its way to you.

Funicorn. Yes you’re right. That’s why I’ve only said OW will need to disclose her income and expenditure, I know only too well the ultimate decision as to whether it can be considered lies with the DJ. I’m told the reason for disclosure is to show she is able to afford her house without STBXH making any significant contribution and since she’s had the house for many years and lived alone for the majority of that time, it’s apparent she can manage on her income.

Toots. 3 different friends of mine saw him at her stall on Saturday and are laughing at him. I can only assume it’s because he’s got no one else now so if she’s working on Saturday he either sits with her or stays at her house alone. What a sad bastard!

Lilly would her being able to afford her home only be relevant if they continued to live there? I very much doubt that will be the case if it's tiny as you say. I would imagine they wish to move to a bigger place.

I also think it's reasonable for him to contribute. I don't think any court will expect him to live there for free.

Bluntness. Yes I know he’d be expected to contribute towards the household expenses what I mean is he can’t say he’s paying a huge amount if she’s historically been able to manage on her income alone.

Apparently, the court look at it that his housing needs are currently being met and there are 2 incomes. My housing needs also have to be met but I only have my income which is significantly less than his.

Also if we sell our house, I would need to rent and I’d have to pay the same amount of rent as our current mortgage payment. I wouldn’t be able to do this on my income alone and because of my illness, my income is very likely to reduce in the next few months.

Can you take the mortgage on lily yourself? Have you spoken to the lender? It would be unreasonable to expect him to stay on it. I get you say he wouldn't wish to take it over. But can you keep the mortgage and buy him out? I guess your solicitor is working on the different options for you.

I suspect his legal support will argue that given that they are not married and it's a new relationship then she has no legal requirement to support him therefore her circumstances shouldn't be added to the split. It could be they split up tomorrow so he still would need to look after himself. It would be very shakey to base a future settlement on sharing expenses with her. Plus she could also hire her own solicitor and block disclosure.

Sorry but I have seen this argument successfully used before. Like you say it's ultimately the judge's decision, no solicitor can give you a firm view as every situation is different and they don't know what the other side will present.

I think you are doing great but I have to say your friends are sounding unpleasant. Not sure I understand why they are sneering at him for helping out on a market stall when it is how many people make a living don't get dragged into the pack mentality of low level bullying. Regardless of what he has done he has made a decision about his own life, other people shouldn't be taking pleasure in deriding him.

MamaOotie. The reason behind me mocking him for spending his Saturday helping on a market stall is because he’s such a bloody snob. My brother-in-law spoke to him very briefly and said he was clearly embarrassed and said he was only there to pick OW up when she finished work, when in fact he’d been there for hours by then.

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, this is my thread and I can whinge and criticise all I like. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with my comments but I’m not posting on here to compliment my STBXH or OW.

MamaOotie. I would just like to point out that the reason I mentioned him at her market stall was mainly to point out that because when he left me for OW he lost his entire social circle so she’s all he’s got. I was making the point he’s got very few friends now. Sorry if you think I’m out of order but I hope he’s the loneliest man in the world!

I appreciate the relationship is new but he obviously considers it serious enough to instruct solicitors to negotiate divorce proceedings to end a 23 year marriage.

When the financial proceedings are dealt with, he must disclose his income and expenditure and IF he is still living with OW her income and expenditure will be considered if he claims to be contributing to the household. My solicitor has confirmed this will be requested. Also, chances are the financial proceedings will be months away so if they are still together it won’t be deemed a “new” relationship.

Bluntness. I can’t buy him out because my salary isn’t sufficient to borrow any extra.

Ok then the house will need to be sold Lilly if he doesn't wish it.

I really don't understand the things your solicitor is telling you, they range from unlikely to downright odd if I'm honest.

The reality is it's you that is claiming maintenance not him, as such rhe court works out how much you need to live on, v how much you earn and see if he can bridge the gap. The only time his circumstances come into it is if he argues he can't affford to bridge the gap the court decides,

Think about it logically, if there was even the slightest chance a maintenance order would be based on her earnings, he would simply rent a place and say that was his permanent address. Everyone would do this.

A maintenance order cannot be made based on her earnings, they aren't even married and that would be unduly punitive on him, what happens if it ended? I'm shocked your solicitor is advising you this way. None of it is likely never mind logical.

My cousin didn’t have the funds to buy out her ex. So they negotiated and he signed off on his half of the house in exchange for her signing off on his pension. It was a complicated calculation but she ended up with the house and no additional mortgage.

But I’m in the US so that may not apply to you. On the plus side, the house has tripled in value since their divorce. So she has the house and her equity now is more than what she gave up in his pension.

Bluntness. I keep saying spousal maintenance will NOT be based on OW’s income, only that she will have to disclose it if they’re living together, see attached.

I know my maintenance claim won’t be based on her income BUT whilst he’s living with her his expenditure will not be as high as if he were renting a property and living alone. If he were to indicate he is renting then a tenancy agreement would need to be disclosed.

Since he left, my standard of living has deteriorated massively because I no longer have his income. A DJ will CONSIDER the parties’ standard of living prior to the split when the financial issues are decided.

I know there are no absolute certainties in any court proceedings, I’m only stating what COULD happen and what information MAY be the subject of disclosure.

I see from your posts you make several assertions about what will happen regarding the finances during the divorce proceedings, do you mind me asking have you gone through a divorce and/or are you in the legal profession. I understand if you don’t wish to answer, just curious.

Bluntness - Lily did not attack you. She disagreed with you. That's OK. You interpret information differently from her. That's OK too. Lily's question about your legal credentials is a good one because you clearly sound as if you know what you're talking about yet your advice is at odds with what she's been told by a legal professional.

(Lily , ignore the wisdom of someone on the internet who's daughter has a law degree at your peril. She clearly knows all about it because her dad got divorced.)

Lily I think I understand what you are getting at - the point you are making is that the divorce and split of assets has to be fair to both parties- I.e. it isn't supposed to bankrupt anyone. So if he is confirmed to be living with OW and not needing to pay any rent (proved by the fact she has been able to pay it on her own for however long) then he doesn't need any money for living expenses.

Is that right?

FWIW bluntness I think that was a bit nasty. Surely a practicing matrimonial solicitor has more experience than a graduate so I don't know why you mentioned it.

Because she asked, but fair enough.

I think I'm another one out.

Good luck Lilly. I hope you get what you want.

OMG Bluntness I think it’s you attacking me, not the other way around. If you re-read your recent posts you keep saying OW’s income won’t be taken into account BUT I have never said it would, only that she would need to disclose the information.

I have sought advice from a solicitor with a great deal of experience of matrimonial law and also (via DM) a poster on this thread has given details of her recent financial settlement.

I too have a legal qualification, however my area was civil litigation not family.

I will readily admit every divorce/financial settlement is considered on its own merits and there are no guarantees, all I have said is that if STBXH is still living with OW when the finances are addressed she will have to disclose her I&E on the Form E.

I do not want people on this thread “who just agree with me”. If someone disagrees that’s absolutely fine but you’re not just disagreeing with me, you’re clearly stating my solicitor is giving me incorrect advice.

Most of your posts have been really helpful and I’ve been so grateful for your opinion and advice BUT on this issue we may need to agree to differ.

I hope you won’t take offence and leave the thread, that would be a real shame. I will say this though, when the financial proceedings are dealt with, I will tell you, honestly, what information is ordered and what the outcome is 😉

Beefcake. That’s exactly right.

Bluntness. That would be a real shame, I hope you’ll reconsider 😟

I've asked for it to be removed. It was a bit strong. I might just be in a bad mood today, fucked up at work. Stupid error and annoyed at myself. So being a little short tempered, it wasn't meant as an attack. 😔

Yes I agree I don’t think Lilly attacked anyone , posters were questioning the legal advice which seems to make perfect sense to me , if the XH is living with OW then the situation has to be declared. Lilly wasn’t saying that the OW’s earning would go towards her maintenance which is what I think some other people were potentially getting confused with.
Think Lilly is probably going through enough without posters on here having strops.