DH is an actor first and a father second.

[Spider]

I'll try to keep this brief. We've been arguing for over a week now and it's really taking its toll.

The history: Before we had kids my career had the edge on his because I had stability as well as money.

Then we had four kids in eight years and my work dropped right back to intermittent freelancing. I've always stepped in to fill the gap when his work is going badly. Over the past year I've been gradually weaving my way back into work.

Last week he was offered the lead in a play which would mean he'd be away for seven weeks. The money was so crap that we would actually make a loss (because he'd have to cancel work already booked) and I would not be able to book work which would be a significant setback in my employment strategy.

His argument .... 'It's a lead. I'm an actor. It's like Hamlet. You knew I was an actor when you married me. '

Anyway after big emotional scenes he decided not to do it but he was absolutely horrible to me. He was upset and hurt and so he said some really nasty stuff to me and had a primitive outburst involving waving a chair over his head and shouting whilst our children were in bed asleep. (One hopes!)

His agent 'phoned yesterday to say he has now been offered a TV job in Bradford (we live in Brighton) for 12 weeks. The pay is better, but not great. It's hardly art (daytime drama) but I can tell he has no intention of even discussing it this time and frankly nor have I. He was so horrible last time.

I'm in a no win situation. If I try to dissuade him he'll turn into the chair waving gorilla man again. So I'll let him go and prepare for me and the kids to suffer and intensely horrible 12 weeks. There is too much work here with four kids (3 of them boys) and only one parent. I know from experience. Also, all my hard work on my career will be lost and I'll be back to square one.

I'm honeslty not sure what to do. I'm not sure our marriage can survive this.

Crunchie's DH here. I have just been reading this fascinating thread and while feeling very guilty about the amount of time I have been away from home recently, I want to add to the case for the defence of us feckless, selfish acting dhs out there. I am working away from home at the moment for only the 3rd time in 8 years, having sought only local work for all that time, and accepted anything offered, even jobs that most self respecting actors would have turned down in an instant. (BTW I probably would kill for voiceover work; the holy grail for most actors and as mentioned before, money for old rope).
Now with my girls at 6 and 8 I am just starting to spread my professional wings again and am finding that, as with many things it is a question of balance. My main motivation for being away now is that I will earn the space and money to enable me to spend the next few months exclusively for my family. I am lining up work away for Xmas so I will turn down anything for the summer holidays. If I wasn't working now I would have to find something for that period and the kids would be back off to childcare. I know Crunchie and I are lucky, but i think we recognise that the pluses of my exclusive attention when I am at home more than outweigh the difficulties when I am away. It's not exactly win win, but it's a hell of a lot better than me doing a job I am not really into and seeing the girls for an hour in the evenings. Crunchie is brilliantly supportive and I know that she has sacrificed a lot to be with me, although I don't think she was ever cut out to be a SAHM.

Crunchie here, yeah that point was about 10 years ago when we got married!!

We both realised that I would need to keep working throughout our married life if we were to work, I think it took alot for DH to realsie that he maynot ever be able to support me in the manner that he liked Once he had come to terms with that we were able to get married as he realised that I would never make him forgo his dream. There have been times when I have begged him to give up for his own sanity when local crappy people were not giving him parts that he was better than, I have challanged him countless times about if his 'need' to act was worth more than anything else. And yes it is.

Finally he is starting to work more, and I think we have a good balance between us, who knows what will happen next year. He is working around 40 - 50% of the time as an actor and the rest of the time as a teacher at stagecoach, in local schools and youth work.

IMHO if he was going to give up it should have been years ago, you cannot go through 15 + years of stuggle to give up now

spider, am following this thread, nothing to add that the all wise and lovely mners especially crunchie haven't already said, but wanted to post as I'm so sorry things are crap at the moment.

love to you.
x

Surely the practical answer is you find childcare for when you get work whilst he is away?

Is it that the childcare isn't affordable on what you and he earn even if you both paid half each?

I am on my own with 5 children but the oldest was 18 when my husband left so it's not as bad as it sounds and work for myself and keep us all. In fact in my marriage one issue was ex taking all work he got - full time teaching job with long hours and lots of work- he plays music at weekends. I earn a lot more but I don't think I once ever stopped him taking any work on ever even though every single Christmas Eve he'd be playing, every Christmas morning, whole of Easter week, all those family times on my own.

So can you not try to forge ahead with your career so you can afford say a live in au pair at £65 a week say? In other words solve the problem other than through you resenting his work and he resenting yours?

This thread has reminded me about my first boyfriend who was the oldest in a family of six children. His father was an artist. This was his chosen career and he was determined to stick with it, although he was struggling to make a living.

Although he wasn't away for months on end, he often used to go away for days or weeks at a time, trying to network and sell his paintings. He left with little warning, sometimes leaving the family with no money even for basic food. I know they had some terribly hard times but it was not just that, the children knew their mother was incredibly upset.

I met my boyfriend when he was 17 and he was extremely bitter about his father's selfishness. Being the oldest, a lot was put on his shoulders and he was witness to his mother's misery and emotional neglect. From his twenties onwards, he to cut his father out of his life.

There is a happy ending in that my boyfriend's mother separated from her artist husband and then decided to divorce him. The solicitor handling the case fell in love with her. She ended up living with him in is rather nice house in the middle of Cambridge. He was quite a bit older than her but they had some good years together and on his death he left her the property.

Anyway, back to this thread - I think MrCrunchie you are nothing like my ex boyfriend's father. As for Spider's situation, I think childcare may be the best way out of it (as I said in my previous message) so I agree with Xenia.

And if your dh is not prepared help you pay for childcare to enable you to work AND he still expects you to look after the children while he follows his dream, then he is being very selfish.

Spider, I sympathise. My dp is a director and also has to go away a lot.
I've been where you are, many times, although I only have two kids. It is gruelling and tough being the one at home, whilst dp swans around with gorgeous women.

I'm not in the pitchfork camp and I don't think all actors or creatives are selfish shits, although your dh sounds like he is trying to be one at the moment.

I'm not quite sure what your job situation is. If you are losing a position because he is going to work to earn not very much money, then that sounds crazy and definitely pitchfork worthy. If you are earning MORE than him then that's even more insane.

If he does go, get a trainee nanny from a local HE college to come and help you out, and impose wildly on your friends, and drop your lentilly standards a few notches and embrace convenience. You cannot easily survive 12 weeks as a single mother to 4 kids if you are not set up for it. It's not fair. Make him come home at the weekends and go off and do something on your own. Go on that holiday with a mate.

And then you need to set up some ground rules
about who works when - and what the minimum salary he can afford to work for is - and he needs to take a breath and work out if it's viable for him to work as an actor with four kids. And he also needs to respect you and not make immature unilateral decisions.

Zizou racking brains wildly to fathom out what daytime tv is filmed in bradford........
any hints?

Or follow him up there with the children - say surprise surprise and dump them with him and someone you hire for a week to mind them and say you need a week off.

Crunchie, I don't think everything's always equal, so no bullshit from me there.

I'm not pitchfork-waving, I never said Spider should leave him - I just asked why her dreams ALWAYS came second.

I think that's a valid point and something I would NOT be happy about.

I totally appreciate the nature of compromise in a relationship, but I don't think "always doing what DH wants" is a compromise.

Crunchie, I don't think everything's always equal, so no bullshit from me there.

I'm not pitchfork-waving, I never said Spider should leave him - I just asked why her dreams ALWAYS came second.

I think that's a valid point and something I would NOT be happy about.

I totally appreciate the nature of compromise in a relationship, but I don't think "always doing what DH wants" is a compromise.

Whoops.

But it is a child care issue really. Many many couples both work full time. Sometimes they are both away on business together but apart if you see what I mean, although most couples try to avoid that. They need childcare. They don't have to thwart the career of the other. Neither has to have precedence over the other.

Yes, you're right, Xenia.

i suppose it's difficult to set up child-care arrangements when work comes on such a ad-hoc basis?
Maybe, if Spider's work takes off, Mr Spider could take whatever comes along between acting jobs so that they can organise long-term child care?

Nail on the head earthy. It's very difficult to put childcare measures in place when the work is sporadic and unpredictable.

We couldn't possibly get an au pair as there's bearly room for us (3 boys in one bedroom.)

But I will try to get some childcare and I like some of the other suggestions on this thread. Nice to 'see' you hear Xenia.

Very interesting to hear about people's dads too and how observations of them have informed your opinions.

Zizou, the Bradford thing is new. There's a new evening drama coming up. He just missed out on the role he went for in that (too old ) and was given a role in the spin off, daytime series instead. Does that help?

Spider the role seriously could lead to more couldn't it?? I mean there are loads of long running daytime things, and it must pay more than equity min??

Also if they sell it abroad or repeat or whatever??

Sometimes my sister uses an emergency nanny service which will find you someone for short periods as a daily basis but it's expensive. She used it last time her child was off school sick and she had appointments she couldn't cancel without losing good will and money.

I think it's more the effort of having the 4 children alone which is the point here rather than career priority. I have always deliberaetly avoided men who might be away - like the army etc because I wouldn't want a relationship with those types of separations.

I can't remember what ages your children are, but I'd be tempted to book your pre-schoolers in term-time nursery for 2 or 3 days anyway. When DH isn't working, he has to guarantee to earn enough to cover that cost, be it stacking shelves or whatever. I would also get a list of all the childminders in your area, explain your situation and ask if they have any capacity/willingness to deal with ad-hoc bookings (you'd be surprised).

I'd also consider an au pair type set-up as not all of them need to live in. Also students in holiday time can work well. I think someone said contact your local college to get in touch with students on childcare courses - another really good idea.

We advertised for ad hoc a few years ago and had 60 people calling (many unsuitable) but people were out there, all kinds. We also put up an advert at the health club to get sixth formers who wanted to do a few extra hours at the weekend which worked too.

It's the day in day out putting them to bed yourself though that is so unfair and should be matched by you going away for 12 weeks whilst he has them. You need an equality chart or something or he takes them on location and pays and manages the childcare! Main thing is not to let all your hard work on your career go so finding childcare so you can go and do the work when you need it is the key to it all.

I had a sixth former who lived in my road come round and help with the tea/bath/bed session sometimes when mine were smaller and DH was away - she was lovely .

Spider, I have someone who just helps me when I am working - not full time at all. I found her through gumtree (the Brighton pages). She doesn't live in and is great. I think there are quite a few people here for the summer.

If you have 4 children and you both want to work - regardless of your professions - then you have to have childcare. You can't expect to be able to work without it, and I'm puzzled as to how you seem to think you can!

Acting is a terribly unpredictable profession and actors have little or no control over the jobs they are offered. So your dh either has to accept what he is being offered or not, but risk being considered 'difficult' if he does refuse. And the 'big break' is always just round the corner.

But surely you know this? Why are you now suddenly expecting him to refuse a job and criticising him for being selfish? It's his job!

You did know - both of you - what you were doing when you decided to have 4 children. Did you not stop to think through these issues?

I'm definitely not of the pitchfork brigade, and I can sympathise that it's a difficult situation for you, especially if you feel that your options are being limited, but I also think you're being very unfair on your dh.

You need to plan how both of you are going to work and manage your 4 children.