DH is an actor first and a father second.

[Spider]

I'll try to keep this brief. We've been arguing for over a week now and it's really taking its toll.

The history: Before we had kids my career had the edge on his because I had stability as well as money.

Then we had four kids in eight years and my work dropped right back to intermittent freelancing. I've always stepped in to fill the gap when his work is going badly. Over the past year I've been gradually weaving my way back into work.

Last week he was offered the lead in a play which would mean he'd be away for seven weeks. The money was so crap that we would actually make a loss (because he'd have to cancel work already booked) and I would not be able to book work which would be a significant setback in my employment strategy.

His argument .... 'It's a lead. I'm an actor. It's like Hamlet. You knew I was an actor when you married me. '

Anyway after big emotional scenes he decided not to do it but he was absolutely horrible to me. He was upset and hurt and so he said some really nasty stuff to me and had a primitive outburst involving waving a chair over his head and shouting whilst our children were in bed asleep. (One hopes!)

His agent 'phoned yesterday to say he has now been offered a TV job in Bradford (we live in Brighton) for 12 weeks. The pay is better, but not great. It's hardly art (daytime drama) but I can tell he has no intention of even discussing it this time and frankly nor have I. He was so horrible last time.

I'm in a no win situation. If I try to dissuade him he'll turn into the chair waving gorilla man again. So I'll let him go and prepare for me and the kids to suffer and intensely horrible 12 weeks. There is too much work here with four kids (3 of them boys) and only one parent. I know from experience. Also, all my hard work on my career will be lost and I'll be back to square one.

I'm honeslty not sure what to do. I'm not sure our marriage can survive this.

franny you speak so much sense... i moan that my female friends all latch onto dp and sometimes i think they like him more than me
he is very laid back and chilled
old age has made me much more comfortable with this - and more accepting

I know exactly what you mean although the drums have somewhat come seond fiddle to ds and my health but are rearng their heads atn wrt our house move and arguments aplenty here too Hope you are ok xx

Yes Lynette I am/was Spidermama. Who are you then?

Franny I suppose you have a point. I also happen to think he's an absolutely brilliant actor, but this is 2007. We women were told we could have careers too.

I gave up acting when we left drama school precisely because I knew I couldn't live at the mercy of an industry which would pick me up and drop me. I need some degree of predictability and control over my employment. (That and the fact I was a bit shit at acting.)

BUT I then worked hard to build up my radio career and it was going better than I could ever have hoped. Then I dropped it to have kids assuming I'd be able to pick it up again. I could get back in easily enough, but not without dh making some sort of committment to prioritise my career in they way I have been prioritising his for the past 8 years.

When he has been out of work for ages and the money has dried up I always step in and do whatever bits and pieces I can pick up, but then am expected to drop them again the second he gets any work he fancies doing. Now my last baby is two, I WANT to work properly again.

Otter thanks so much for your email. I'm very touched. I have written back.

Childcare Spider? Is it a possibility? That way you're both allowed a bit of a life.

Sorry \spider,but your dh sounds horridly selfish,which has been apparent from your posts for a good while now.

Yes probably ahundred. We've always resisted so far because we wanted to work it out between us.

I will look into childcare. I always said it wasn't for me but it seems it might be after all.

Yes sobernow is right, he does have to be INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL and he has to be prepared to do the same when he's back. I think that is the only way this can work.

Actors/writers/artists etc are selfish I'm afraid, it's part of the deal. If they weren't capable of this kind of selfishness they'd be something else.

Take him on. Let him go. Demand and expect parity.

Easy to say. . . .

Disagree with the point that Spider knew what he was like when she married him, and therefore should 'suffer' it.

He has changed, he's now a father. That was a joint decision, to have four children, and therefore the responsibility should be joint too.

Its all very well following your dreams, but, if you have made the choice to have children, then obviously it should be considered with any future choices you make, not just assumed that your partner will take responsibility for making sure everything runs smoothly.

But do we change? Lots of people have children and carry on working don't they? I expect he feels that he has made masses of 'compromises' already.

Why am I saying this VVV? Aaagh, help me. Oh, I remember, because I want them to get childcare and try to find the Third Way and I want Spider to force herself to the front and tell him when he's back this is the deal, it's pay back time.

vvv spider knew exactly what she was getting, she went to drama school too.

However I do believe he is being selfish as actors are wont to be,

I didn'trealise you didn't have childcare and other stuff and were trying to do it all alone. We make it work becuae we do have childcare, you cannot do it without.

You know you will have to let him go, BUT you do need to discusss what this means and how you both can win. DH and I are lucky as I fell into jobs I love - I a a sales person - and ones that are well paid enoughto support us as a family, leaving dh free to follow his dream.

Good luck spider, actors are crap partners, we both know that

Actually, whilst in some respects it should be blindingly obvious to your dh that of course he has to consider your career, it is really quite a novelty within your relationship, isn't it. Presumably pre-kids he wasn't that involved with what you did (ie it didn't affect his work). And in the last 8 years you've both clearly prioritised his career. Prior to children 2,3 and 4 did you sit down with dh and talk about what your expectation would be once your family was complete? And did he sign up to it then?

If so, then he is being an arse. If not, then I have some degree of sympathy for him (and for you of course, but I don't think that he is being such an arse).

In a sense it may be you that have changed the goal posts, and I'm not sure that you can just expect dh to totally change direction to fit in. Somewhere along the line you have managed to have 4 children, and I suspect that you have had some conversations about the future would look like in those circs.

On the other hand it may be that your status quo (interms of dh's local work) does work for both of you, and that is how it was assumed it would be. In which case i think that if it is dh's wish to suddenly do Hamlet or whatever then he has to make an effort to get the domestic side sorted too. But if you're both pursuing a career, then you will need childcare of some description. Personally I would get some help (an au pair if you have the room) and that may help take some of the strain of you anyway - 4 kids under 8 isn't exactly light work at the best of times. Sorry if this is totally impractical.

Am rambling - time for bed!

Yes, but the fact is he chose to have a family, and, his earning potential is not enough to be so frivolous with his dreams.

Spider hasnt had a chance to forward her career due to his frivolousness.

If she had already laid solid foundations for her career then it really wouldnt be a problem, but she hasnt been able, and he's not allowing her to either. They both went to theatre school so they should both understand, surely?

She is bearing the brunt of everything, and thats not fair.

I am an actor myself but i think its slightly different for women. I have asked my agent to only put me up for TV, no national stage tours or theatre jobs which could take me away from home. I did a long Tv job last year but becos it was TV my whole family chipped into help.

Partner is in a manual job and he sometimes feels put out but he understands the gamble, that a BIG job could arrive and end our money worries. I always wonder how male actors do it, because no matter how much society has progressed, they still tend to be the breadwinners. I can completely understand his chair swinging, you just wait soooo long for a job, then you pray sooo hard that you get it, and you feel so shite when you don't get it, and then you wait sooo long for the next one, that when you do get one, the last thing you want to do is turn it down.

Also, it is really hard to get agents these days, and i personally dont like to displease mine, although she is pretty reasonable. So i end up doing all manners of jobs (crime watch, doctors etc...) Just to keep her happy. They are just so quick to give you the boot, some of them. So I imagine this is a very real and clear and present danger to your DP. No actor wants to be agentless! Out in the wilderness with no job and no prospects. Yes we are incredibly selfish, you have to be to a certain extent, to summon the determination and perservence to carry on!

How you balance this with family/home life though, is a really tough one. And can only commend you for not asking your DP to give up acting altogether. Let us just hope that this job breeds more jobs so that he can start to pick and choose his roles. And afford you, some great childcare, so you too can feed your ambitions!

Oncebitten he always hopes this particular job will breed another and another and so on but from where I'm standing he's starting from scratch every time.

It's good your family can chip in and help out when opportunities come your way. I honestly don't know how women survive in the business and especially mothers. We used to get help but the grandmothers are both alone, getting older and iller, and generally less able to visit, let alone cope with four small kids.

What I can't understand about you actors is how you can be at the beck and call of the industry with virtually no control over what parts you get and when.

I gather there exists some sort of passion for acting (and music and other arts) which defies reason. Honestly it's like DH has a mistress. He's such a great family man when he's around and he loves his kids but he'll ditch the lot of us, and our family holiday, at the click of a casting director's finger.

People say I knew what I was going into but how can you. You can't predict how you'll feel after kids, what your needs will be. No-one really knows what it's like to have kids until they have them.

hi spider, i think the key for any actor is to have a sideline to fall back on. (luckily, i also write, which provides me with a regularish income) It also makes me feel less depressed and desperate when an audition comes up or if i dont get a certain job.

Yes, the passion for acting does defy ALL reason. I think it's because the possibility of joining the promiseland (success, fames and riches) is a very real one to people in these industries. Even though, their loved ones may not be able to foresee the same outcome or share in the same dream.

My DP should come on here cos he would have so much to say about this. He is forever calling me a dreamer but i believe it is those people that are crazy enough to believe they can change the world, that actually do it... Shame these notions don't pay the immediate bills

I had to come back on here as I was thought about this oernight. I am sorry if I didn't sound sympathetic as I really am. I suppose I am in a luckier situation than you as we have one stable career in our family, which makes the difference. We made that choice years ago and it works for us.

However in your situation I would be ranting and raving alongside you, I would be upset as hell as your dh is beig selfish, all I was trying to say is that I know you realise why. Acting is like a drug/compulsion. I hate that side of things and I have BEGGED my dh to give it all up, not necessarily for me and the kids, but for his own sanity as the business destroys you.

Bear in mind for one actor with an agent who gets parts on doctors and crimewatch (my dh has never reached those dizzy heights) there are others who do the schools tours and open air local stuff, I am slowly realising we are lucky as dh has done this for years, which has meant no going away.

However back to you Spider, you know you will have to let your dh do this job, BUT you do need to sit down with him and plan for the future. 4 kids is tough work and from what I understand you do it all by yourself without help. What childcare do you have? if any? What help at home do you have? if any. Could an aupair be a solution to help with afterschool type stuff? What work will you have to cancel? an you no postpone the holiday until he's finished?? (we have had to come back from hols early for auditions, which he has never got!!) Communication is the key here. I get teh ranting and chair waving, he needs to sit down and discuss this. You need to be open about your feelings about being pushed aside for this and your dreams being stomped on. He needs to hear this in a way that relates to him.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.
DH is home tonight (well 2am) and can pop on MN if you want the otherside!!

I had to come back on here as I was thought about this oernight. I am sorry if I didn't sound sympathetic as I really am. I suppose I am in a luckier situation than you as we have one stable career in our family, which makes the difference. We made that choice years ago and it works for us.

However in your situation I would be ranting and raving alongside you, I would be upset as hell as your dh is beig selfish, all I was trying to say is that I know you realise why. Acting is like a drug/compulsion. I hate that side of things and I have BEGGED my dh to give it all up, not necessarily for me and the kids, but for his own sanity as the business destroys you.

Bear in mind for one actor with an agent who gets parts on doctors and crimewatch (my dh has never reached those dizzy heights) there are others who do the schools tours and open air local stuff, I am slowly realising we are lucky as dh has done this for years, which has meant no going away.

However back to you Spider, you know you will have to let your dh do this job, BUT you do need to sit down with him and plan for the future. 4 kids is tough work and from what I understand you do it all by yourself without help. What childcare do you have? if any? What help at home do you have? if any. Could an aupair be a solution to help with afterschool type stuff? What work will you have to cancel? an you no postpone the holiday until he's finished?? (we have had to come back from hols early for auditions, which he has never got!!) Communication is the key here. I get teh ranting and chair waving, he needs to sit down and discuss this. You need to be open about your feelings about being pushed aside for this and your dreams being stomped on. He needs to hear this in a way that relates to him.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.
DH is home tonight (well 2am) and can pop on MN if you want the otherside!!

doe she work when he isnt acting?

Well actually didn't he know you were an actor when he married you?

Why don't you just tell him you've been offered a job in Norfolk for ten weeks and see how he responds?

What about your career? Is he your equal partner or the senior partner in your relationship?

Someone hand me a pitchfork.

Spider: I'd say you do have to look very seriously at childcare options. I know you've not been in favour in the past, and that I am coming at it from a very different perspective - like Crunchie, I've worked (in my case four days a week) since my children were babies, and have had no qualms about using childcare at all.

I am also in the camp that feels that 'being a creative type' is not a get out of jail free card; a belated realisation after years of living with a pissedup hack who always told me going down the pub every night was part of being a journalist. Now I am a journalist myself and a very respectable suburban matron indeed .

Hi Spider, so sorry to hear this I feel really angry for you, how horrid being left alone for so long and having to cancel your holiday , not to mention the apparent disregard for your career.

Has it always been like this, or is it getting worse?

This is a difficult one for me to comment on, as I can truly understand his passion for acting but can totally appreciate where you are coming from as woman and mother.

Us actors certainly are an unusual, selfish bunch. I feel almost like I am blinkered with a determination to succeed, almost at any cost. But that does not mean going away for weeks on end (unless I was offered a huge life-changing) paycheck. My career is one of the reasons why me and dh have just split up, he can't stand the thought of me doing it, but I am going to anyway.

Your dh is clearly extremely passionate about his jobs, the times I have spoken to him about the industry he really lights up. But why the hell can't you have a career too!

If you want to meet up for a drink, I would love to, or maybe get the kids together? And if your dh does go away then I can always help out as much as I can. Feel free to CAT x

hmmm - I don't think this is so cut and dried. Yes he seems to be acting(!) like an arse but there again you DID know he was an actor when you married and presumably just what that entailed?

Getting some tv work could be great for him and ultimately all the family.

My dh was away for 12 months when ours were small on an accelerated promotion course. Yes, it was tough but we got through it and reaped the benefits.

There again I didn't have a career myself.