Can I Stop DDs mum moving away

[PapaMeerkat]

I am a father to DD who is 6.
I was never in a proper relationship with her mum and our relationship has been very up and down over the years. It was ok just after DD was born but then whenever I do/say something her mum doesn't like then she stops contact for a few weeks till I threaten to take her back to court and then we go back to normal again.

I am currently married and expecting a baby via a surrogate, and DD stays with us EOweekend and 3 evenings a week. I also pick her up and drop her off at an after school activity 1 day a week and I have her half the school holidays. I also take her any extra time her mum needs me to have her. Her mum is also married and DD has StepSisters.

When I picked up DD from school yesterday she was acting quiet at first I thought it was just the heat/tiredness but as the evening went on she was clingy and kept crying for no real reason. But when I tried to chat to her about it she would refuse to speak and sometimes she would start crying again. She took ages to settle to bed and then in the middle of the night she came crying into our bed and she took ages so settle which is something she hasn't done since she was a toddler.

Today she was exactly the same clingy and crying. After dinner I just sat with her and cuddled her for ages and reassured her that she could talk to me and eventually she blurted out that they are all moving to the other side of the country in the school holidays. That she wasn't supposed to know but her Ssisters told her and so she asked her mum who confirmed it but made her promise that she wouldn't tell me because I would be upset and it would make everyone cross. DD was then hysterical saying that she didn't want to go that she will miss me and DP and she will never see the new baby once they are born and she doesn't want to leave her grandparents etc and she got so upset she made herself sick so I calmed her down as best I could and I told her I would talk to her mum about it but that if they do move I will always be there for her and we will come and visit but she was still upset saying that she wants to live with us.

So once DD was calmed down I messaged her mum and she eventually confirmed that they are moving as her DP will have better work opportunities. She said that they have already made most of the arrangements and I will just have to visit when I can (It will would be roughly an 8 hour car ride there so we won't be able to pop over and visit her for the weekend).

I am devastated and I am trying to work out if there is someway I can stop this happening, for me and for DD. So I'm hoping someone might be able to help me because I don't know what to do next but I don't want to lose my DD. But then I don't know if legally I can stop them moving with her either.

Thanks for the update OP. Am so glad your legal team thinks you have a good case.

Good luck with your case OP, it's great to hear your lawyer thinks you have a good case.

In an ideal world, every child would have a father like you. You can see how much you love and care for your daughter, talking to her teacher and being concerned about her well-being.

So pleased to hear your update. As others have suggested, I'm wondering whether it might be better for your DD to stay with you permanently. It's clear which of you and your Ex puts the poor child first.

Just wanted to say good luck op. My DH had a similar scare with his ex threatening to move away and it was awful. It sounds like your dd would be much better off with you.

Goos luck OP.

From everything you have said it sounds like your dd will be better with you and your partner and new baby,

Also do get come sort of caveat that dd will not be taken out of the jurisdiction of the law of England and Wales.

I don't know if this is still the same but it used to be possible for one parent to have custody in Scotland and another in England.

this is so sad - can you also argue for something along the lines of cultural identity. Does your DD go to welsh medium school this move would disrupt that?

I've been following this from the start. I'm glad your solicitor is being helpful. I also suspected you were gay and that your ex and/or her DP have an issue with it. That's not going to go over terribly well though during this process as you've clearly demonstrated you're able and willing to provide a stable and loving home for DD.

What about DD's step siblings' - where are their mother and her family? I wonder if their dad's ex knows that he's planning this move?

Hi. My partner just sent a link to this thread as it's spookily similar to what happened a year ago to me. The difference was in my case I was still married to Mum and I had no warning, coming home to an empty house. Both my DDs didn't want to move to Scotland and they thought they were going 'on a holiday'. Their mum and in-laws said I could only see them when I agreed to the situation. By the time I managed to speak to my DDs on FaceTime 3wks later they were wearing the uniform of a school I didn't recognise and the mum was convinced that it was a done deal.

Well, it's not. You are a parent named on the Birth Certificate as I understand and therefore have PR. No parent can remove the children from their habitual residence or school without the express permission of the other. You have 50% of the vote and as your DD clearly doesn't want this then you also have a moral obligation to stop it. Time and time again it is apparent that the COD that grow up happiest are the ones with a meaningful relationship with both parents (that's from the mouth of the High Court family judge that presided over my case). 8 hours travel precludes this.

If you are a loving, engaged and dutiful father (you sound like you are) ; if you haven't given your express consent; if you haven't arguably 'acquiesced' in any way and then they still go, taking your DD then it is Abduction. That is what my case was heard as at an urgent hearing. Within 24 hours of which the Mum was ordered to return to the children to the habitual residence, their school and the status quo to which they were previously living in.

If you are in England/Wales and she takes DD to Scotland it is a different jurisdiction as people say, but this means it is treated in a similar fashion to DD being taken to another country and therefore it is dealt with as Abduction.

Me and DD mum now have a 'shared parenting' arrangement with our DDs. Our DDs are happy now that they see both of us regularly and routinely, they were able to stay within their friendship groups and their school (BTW - the school will back you up that educationally it isn't in DD's best interests educationally to upset her schooling and furthermore she cannot just take DD out of school unannounced).

If things are moving to slowly and the mum removes them from the jurisdiction unilaterally then seek specialist legal advice: www.gov.uk/guidance/child-abduction-accredited-solicitors-referral-list

I wish you the best of luck and have my fingers crossed for you.

any update OP?

@readeverything that is horrific! I have no words. How could anyone (try to) do that to their children?

You are a good man and an amazing father and your daughter is lucky to have you..... Fight her mother every step of the way. I had my exh not return the dc after contact, move and put them into a new school.
After I got them back, I was wondering, who does this to the child, does she really think you are just going to go 'yes that's ok'??

Not in a million years.... We are all behind you!! Go get your girl!!!

So you served a Probibited Steps Order on their mother, ReadEverything ?

And their previous school was able to accommodate them again instantly without going through the LEA equivalent, and their previous rented home was re-acquired for instant re-occupation?

@GreenProvence. PSO was to stop their removal again. There was no need to re-apply to the school as the mother hadn't informed the school she was removing them, so as far as they were concerned they still had a place there. Also the family home was here (owned) so accommodation was here.

Thank you for your replies. I'm sorry I didn't update earlier but it has been a really busy time.

When they found out about the PSO they went mad DD's mum said I would never see DD again that they didn't care what the order said if they took DD no-one could stop them and they were going to take her as far away from me as possible. They deliberately picked DD up early from school the day after so that I couldn't see her.

Then the next day they apologised and said that they had been and gotten legal advice and realised that they had made a mistake and I should see DD as normal. They then sent a letter to my solicitor saying that they want to do mediation as soon as possible and get this sorted.

We agreed a date but then they backed out at the last minute and we have rearranged for tomorrow.

DD has been really struggling she keeps telling me that her mum and step dad keep saying that it doesn't matter what I want and she will be going to live with them and she will understand when she is older. She has slept in our bed everynight she has stayed here because she gets upset in her bed at night and she has wet the bed a couple of times which has really upset her because she hasn't wet the bed since she was a toddler.

Her mum insists they aren't having any problems with her and it must be my fault because it is only happening here. However DD has told me that it is happening at her mums house as well and they are getting cross with her about it which is upsetting her even more.

Just so sorry you and your DD are going through this. I've no advice except what others have said already. Your poor DD.

OMG OP this is horrendous. What a piece of work your DDs Mother is. You sounds like a great Parent. Stay strong xx

Oh my god that poor little girl. Keep fighting she knows you will

What awful people they are.

You should consider going for full custody. They are damaging her and god knows how low they would stoop and what they will tell her over the years.

As an aside, i commented on this thread before. Why is it not coming up on my “I’m on” feed? This happens to me regularly on past threads.

My stepdaughter's mum and step-Dad did this with 2 weeks notice. They had sorted everything out and never said a word. They were only moving 40-50 mins away but it still massively reduced the time we could have my SD, not to mention the massively increased travel times and costs.
Her step-Dad did the whole "I know what's right for my family" shit too.....
I'm sorry you're going through this.

Keep fighting OP. Remember that “mediation” doesn’t equate to giving them whatever they want, which is what I think they think it’ll mean.

I think you’ve got a strong chance to stop them from taking your DD. The PSO protects your position until you can get into a court room, which is where this is headed.

After all, what are they possibly going to suggest in mediation which would make it possible for you to sustain your relationship with DD? He’s clearly not going to back down from moving and your ex sounds like she’s drinking the Koolaid.

The court should arrange for a section 50 (I think?) report by CAFCAS and you’ve got a bit of legal precedent in that there’s one case which related to a similar distance to the one they’re proposing here. Doesn’t mean that the court will bind themselves to it (mine didn’t) but it helps a bit.

Whilst I wouldn’t trust CAFCAS with anything more complicated than a safety pin, even they should get this one right if your DD is expressing these worries and her behaviour’s altered. Make sure the school are aware of what’s going on.

Try not to lose your temper tomorrow. Be calm and measured and make sure you know what points you want to put across. If you’ve been keeping a diary then take that with you so you can point out how her behaviour’s changed, her Mum’s assertion that they’ll take her anyway etc.

Best of luck.

I'm not sure about mediation with those bullies tbh. ...but yoye suciyors will advise you.

It's clear they are not putting DDs needs above their own.

Please keep your solicitor updated on everything DD tells you and how they are still planning to go away according to DD.

I don't think their apology is genuine at all.

The advice you've received on here is the nicer side of MN and I'm glad it's helped you. They know they can't just take your DD away.

You need to contact a lawyer ASAP. Once she moves and starts her new school it will be much harder for you to get her back. If it goes to court, they will look at what is in the best interest of the child and this including keeping her routine as "normal" as possible. If she moves and settled into her new school and life then they will take the view that she has settled there and is doing well so it would cause more issues for her to uproot her again to live with you.

Any update after mediation, OP?

Really hope it went well, and you can nip this in the bud early, for your DD’s sake.

Yes to making sure you stay calm. - It sounds as if the mother won’t be staying calm - that will go in your favour.

Maybe go to the GP about the bed wetting? It will get the effect it is having on your dd on the record (as well as providing sone advice/access to support).

Incidentally my son is 8 hours from me (long story) & it’s horrendous. It costs £500 a month just to see him twice (which isn’t enough). The drive is awful as it takes two days out of the week I go and I have other children who also need me. It is breaking me - it can’t break me because he needs me, but it is exhausting & traumatic. You have the option to stop it so do everything you can, Definitely fight it.