How do we come back from this argument?

[Sunrise888]

DH and I have had bad colds all weekend so neither of us are feeling great. DH was getting a headache so I told him to go to bed and I would settle down DS who is 1yo.

Before he did, I started to talk about a photographer who is visiting our baby class and whether we should bother getting photos. DH initially said he trusted me to use my own judgement, but when I persisted for his opinion, he snapped that photographers were overpriced and insulted the expensive wedding photographer we used and the pictures we got out of it. (The photographer had been my choice and I had talked DH into it, paying the excess of what we'd planned to pay out of my own pocket. We've said since that we should have got someone else, but the photos are mostly fine/lovely.) I felt really hurt that he was throwing this in my face and retorted that we'd paid far more for all the friends he'd invited and I was pressured to invite when I'd only wanted a very small family wedding. (Again we've talked about this before. DH had a great day, but when I told him much later I hadn't enjoyed it as much because of all the people, he felt terrible that he had pressured me into a wedding I didn't enjoy.)

Anyway, he saw how upset I was so he took DS off me and said he'd put him to bed, so I went to bed on my own. Later he needed help setting DS which I did. He apologised and asked we don't argue in front of DS, but I was still too upset to say anything.

We've not been getting on so well - the stress of the wedding and having a baby have not brought out the best in us. DH was really, really great in the face of it all, looked after me and excused a lot because I'd had a baby. But in the last few months his patience had worn thin a bit, and he's started to snipe back, which he recognised and is trying to contain. Since we've had the baby, I've been less kind to him. He half jokes about me being mean to him and I do apologise, but recently he's started to snipe back. I feel like because I've been so difficult this last year, I've turned my lovely DH into someone a little less lovely. 😪

I do feel bad about last night in that he was probably just feeling ill and I was talking to him when he just wanted to go to bed. And this is the first time I have said anything to purposefully hurt DH - I didn't just blurt it out, I thought about what I was going to say, and said it knowing it would hurt him. I hate myself but I'm still angry.

I need talking down. We are supposed to make some big decisions with houses and moving today and I am feeling petty wanting to postpone the decisions because I'm so mad. I think sometimes we should get counseling, but I also think I haven't slept a full night in a year and this is just how things are with a baby,, and it will get better.

I'd love some advice please. I hate apologising without talking things through - I don't feel very genuine about my apology otherwise. But I don't think the wedding photographer/wedding pressure talk is one I want to have again as we can't change the past.

@Getoffthetableplease that's good advice about drawing lines under disagreements and picking battles. DH does this, and I have not.

@QueenArnica thanks, that's helpful to hear. I'll be a bit more sensitive. Our relationship dynamic has changed with a baby, there's a time and place to be 'cute'

Bumpitybumper

Thank you I was trying to point out how the constant asking and poking can be unhelpful (not v elegantly I admit) and holding someone to an unrealistic ideal

@Quartz2208

I was angry because I felt that DH threw back a choice I made in the past in my face, which had resulting in wedding photos that I don't cherish and a big unnecessary spend of money. I still feel guilty and upset about that, so I think DH could have his point differently. I do realise though that he didn't mean to hurt me, and I feel bad that I did hurt him.

I pretend to act a bit dumb to wind him up, which he usually finds cute, but I think my trolling him is making him feel a bit exasperated now, so I should probably cut back

OP you sound awful. You have talked about purposely being mean and purposely winding him up apparently for your own amusement. No wonder he's fed up of your behaviour after 8 years, you are lucky it's taken that long - spite is not an attractive quality

@NotTakenUsername

Thanks, you are right. Do you just mean counselling or specific therapy? I'll look into it.

Thanks @Bumpitybumper, I'm taking what I find helpful here and ignoring the rest.

I'm wondering if you might have undiagnosed ADHD?

I'm not sure where you learned this; teasing, acting dumb, etc. but it really is time to stop it.

I pretend to act a bit dumb to wind him up, which he usually finds cute, but I think my trolling him is making him feel a bit exasperated now, so I should probably cut back.

By this I mean we're both research scientists, so I make a lot of anti-science/pretending I don't understand jokes that he found endearing and feels he has to argue against even though he knows I know as much as he does. That's the extent of my winding him up - it's done lovingly, but I do get that I do it a bit too much when he's trying to get on with things.

@pissedonatrain behaving badly towards another person doesn't mean you have ADHD, some people just aren't that nice.

OP you should be reading and taking something from all the posts. Your behaviour is what is wrong here.

@pissedonatrain

I'm wondering if you might have undiagnosed ADHD

Thanks for the suggestion. By the NHS definition of inattentiveness, hyperactivity and impulsiveness, no definitely not.

I know I'm emotionally immature, though I think I'm a good mum. I think the attention I've lavished on DS has made my relationship with DH suffer, which I know is normal. I've tried to make more of an effort to pull my weight around the house in the last few months, I'll make a great effort to be kinder and look after DH from now on too.

*behaving badly towards another person doesn't mean you have ADHD, some people just aren't that nice.

OP you should be reading and taking something from all the posts. Your behaviour is what is wrong here.*

Thanks for your assessment of me and your advice. I hope it's clear from my replies that I've taken plenty on board.

It's clear you have read them and are willing to try to improve.

How old is ds? If he's 1 or older I think you need to sleep train for his wellbeing as well as yours. Tiredness is a form of torture. Bar the odd night children should be sleeping through from 1.

I appreciate the time people have taken to respond. I know in the big scheme of things it was a little argument, but I felt really bad last night. So many of the responses here have been helpful and I will apologise to DH and try to be kinder to him after he has been so lovely to me.

Sorry. If this were a reverse you would be called emotionally abusive. In fact all but one poster seems to be saying that anyway.

Teasing, stonewalling, unreasonable anger, acting dopey, poking fun. I’d not be putting up with that. I think he’s done well carry on for eight years.

Even now you’re angry and only really cherry picking what you want to hear. Much like how this argument seems to be a massive escalation as it feeds the drama you want to create.

You sound like you’ve got a good one, if not for your marriage for the sake of your son please take some counselling or just stop the silly behaviours. Otherwise he will grow up thinking this is normal. The new baby isn’t an excuse. It seems like the lack of sleep has just shone a massive light on disfunctional behaviours which were already there for the past eight years.

It’s not healthy and this is the model you will be giving your son, that it is. Stop pushing him away.

I get this - I really do (no DC but I really do understand the dynamic in the relationship having changed).

First up, I think you should tell your DH what you have said here; that you feel ashamed for being deliberately hurtful, it was a shitty thing to do and that you are sorry.

You need to keep talking and now more than ever is when you need to be really honest and transparent with each other. The sniping is a symptom of the fact that you are both tired and stressed. It's not a bad thing to be honest about your feelings but what you do need to think about is how you communicate and express that. If you're feeling snappy and pissed off then say "DH I'm feeling really ratty and short-tempered because of XYZ". The same goes for him. You need to try and find a way of working together as a team again, and the first step towards that is letting each other know how you are feeling.

Finally, I found it really helpful to focus on saying thank you and making DH aware how much I value him - to say something nice every day regardless of how I was feeling: Thank you for doing something/ I appreciate this/I love you/ you look nice etc.

It can be very easy to fall into the habit of taking each other for granted, which can then cross over into treating each other carelessly or with contempt. Saying something nice every day is a way of breaking that habit and reminding you of why you are with each other and what attracted you in the first place.

@Dermymc DS is not quite 1. As sleep had improved a lot on the last few weeks I'm holding out until nursery starts in August.

There's not a lot I can do to sleep wise - I can't really nap without messing up own sleep. DH does let me have a lie-in on weekends and when he can during the week. But I am grumpy when I'm tired! I get very snappy (and too jokey obviously). But I don't want to jeopardise things with DH so I'll just have to keep this in mind before I snap or make a joke!

@Sunrise888

I was just wondering because you seem to say and do things impulsively without consideration or forethought to the consequences.

The expensive wedding photographer.
Asking about a baby photographer when your DH was sick and wanting to go to bed.
unawareness of appropriate times and how your behaviour affects others
telling your DH that you were unhappy with the wedding after the fact

And yes, counselling would be a good start.

You are very intelligent and obviously very smart.
Capable of self reflection. You are trying your best to grow and adapt to the new situation. Getting married having a baby etc.
I've been married for 29 years and what works for me is never to say things I regret( I feel terrible after) and I apologise for my behaviour. In arguments I want to get my point but I don't want dh to lose. The arguments are about clearing the air not to score ugly points.
If you know you are doing something that you shouldn't then stop.
If you spend too much on the photographer so what. If he invited too many people so what. Sounds like you are even and nothing you can change about it.
You are under stress with a new baby. Nobody can prepare us for the changes our relationships go thru when we become parents.
Best of luck. Keep reflecting and I don't think you need therapy ( I'm a integrative counsellor) you need a good sleep and a good chat about how you don't want to annoy each other.

Sunrise I wouldn't try and sort sleep and start nursery at the same time. (speaks the voice of experience!)

How often do you wake with him?

Being tired makes everything harder, a full nights sleep does wonders for a relationship.

And he will look after you, hopefully. Works both ways.

Hours of a break is stonewalling, not Ok. Suggest working on managing your emotions: you talk about running the risk of saying something you might regret as though that’s not within your control. Being angry needn’t necessarily mean being verbally aggressive or stonewalling, which is also aggressive.

I became very exhausted and unwell with both my DC at around your stage of parenting, which for me was primarily due to sleep deprivation from breastfeeding at night. This was also negatively affecting our relationship, we were both being bad to each other.

DC1 had always had an expressed bottle in the late evening, so we switched to full formula, then cows milk, over a week or two, no tears which was lucky. DC2 wasn’t used to bottles, we did Dr Jay Gordon’s night weaning method, for age one plus. basically you both cuddle the baby and give water, but no milk. It was two nights of hell, which DH dealt with, but then no more night feeds! It did help my health, and wellbeing, because it meant fewer wake ups and DH could do more night parenting. We co slept, and I continued to feed DC2 in the daytime until age 3.

There are lots of sleep discussions on MN that are not “cry it out”.

When a couple has a child, the child takes the attention that the ditzy or needy adult used to get. All hell breaks loose sometimes as a result.

Mr/Ms Competent Carer is exhausted and resentful looking after two babies, Mr/Ms Needy pouts madly because they are no longer centre of the universe. You're both exhausted too.

Don't worry, it happens - a lot. You're sorry; makes sure he knows it. Sleep train ds for everyone's sake. It will be awful for a bit but it works and he will be much happier (so will you). Apologise and explain, and say you're working on how grumpy you are.

After a few months of stress and tiredness, it's really easy to be ground down to a point where you auto-snap. You sound very nice - keep it that way.

“I get snappy when I’m tired”.

We all do, but again that’s aggression, and something to work on.

DH is a night owl, with longstanding sleep problems, and before DC often used to be moody on weekday mornings. Before DC I just worked round it, but after DC pulled him up on it, we had a grumpy baby to wrangle to nursery, and one grump was enough! He changed his behaviour. He still has sleep problems and hates and struggles in the mornings but is rarely grumpy.

Teasing, stonewalling, unreasonable anger, acting dopey, poking fun. I’d not be putting up with that. I think he’s done well carry on for eight years.

@Masterbuilders and to others who think I'm exhausting, I appreciate that this is beyond what you'd put up with. But DH does love me, he did ask me to marry him. We bring out a sweet and silly side out of each other that we don't show to anyone else. The teasing was part of our dynamic, and he teases me too. I've never felt more comfortable with anyone the way I do with him. I became sharper with it in the last year and I can see it's not so cute and just frustrating when I'm forgetful or I don't want to speak to him while we are both so stressed, so I said I'd try to be better.

Even now you’re angry and only really cherry picking what you want to hear. Much like how this argument seems to be a massive escalation as it feeds the drama you want to create.

I disagree, I think I've answered everyone here apart from the sleep advice. Also I didn't come for more drama. As I said in my OP I wanted to be talked down, I came here to de-escalate things in my head before I speak to DH, and I feel better enough now to apologise to him and talk it over and admit I should be kinder.

Being forgetful is a symptom of the sleep deprivation.