Husband gets violent when our children scream or cry

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We have 2 children, DS is 18mths and DD is 6.5. Both have lovely sunny natures and would not be considered difficult children. I was always more in favour of having children (particularly the 2nd) than him but he is a great dad and does wonderful stuff with both of them that I would never think of. He has always struggled when they cry or particularly scream, it gets into his head, hurts his ears he says (he wears earplugs when putting DS to bed if he cries). He is also prone to depression now and then -on the one full day (ever) I left him minding both of them in March (Easter) while I was at work he was on the Samaritians website that evening and retreated into himself. Over the past few months there have been times when one or both DC is being difficult/crying/screaming and he has lost his rag. Not directly at them or me, but with anger directed at objects. Last year when he had both of them for a few hours one morning they both did something to annoy him and he smashed a fruit bowl and some mugs onto the floor - my daughter still talks about this. At Easter this year when he had that bad patch he nearly put his fist through a wall and nearly broke the kitchen door he slammed it so hard so many times whenever they made too much noise. Yesterday morning he was doing the nursery and school run (I rarely ask him to do both but I had a deadline in work) and my son apparently screamed for half an hour after I left for work, DD then yelled at him when he picked her up from school later on (she was exhausted after her school trip) and that evening DS screamed at DD when she took at toy off him in the garden - at which point DH took a shovel and bashed it against a wall very hard a number of times, partly smashing the chalkboard on it. He then stormed off without a word. DS and DD stood in the garden watching, DD gave DS a hug while DS just stood watching and then put his finger to his lips in a sssh motion. Obviously that was a bad day but it scared them. His anger is never directed at us, just at objects. He is not one for talking about it afterwards, besides, I don't know what to say as I feel it is my fault for putting us in this situation, he could happily have not had children. Is this reasonable behaviour? Do I just weather the storm and hope it will pass when they are a little older (he was not like this before we had kids)? Does he need help? He is scaring DD and I am worried what kind of impression it gives to both of them if they remember this when they are older.

I’ve not read the full thread but wanted to add my story. My dad had extreme anger issues after years of trauma as a young man. He had therapy and worked very hard at various control methods. His triggers were different but safely removing himself was key.

I did witness outbursts and let me tell you it was horrifying. And he was horrified afterwards. I think (but don’t know) it was a probably a form of PTSD, his whole face changed and was like a different person.

Knowing all that after an outburst my mum always made him leave until he had sorted himself out. Sometimes overnight, usually a week.

You can have sympathy for the person but not accept the behaviour. Remember your children are learning this behaviour and may well copy it.

^flashbacks, was what I meant rather than ptsd. Been a long day.

I think the point is that:

• He may be a good man
• He may love his family and hate his outbursts
• The OP may love him very much and he may be a great dad on every other occasssion
• He may have MH issues, sensory difficulties, or other medical conditions beyond his control
• He may want to seek help and make every effort to do so
• He may recover and go on to be a brilliant parent
• He may be totally deserving of compassion and support
• He may have never directed his anger towards the children and truly believe that he never would

But if he does, even once, despite all these things, hit his children with the garden spade in the way the OP has described, those children will die. They will die.

So, as far as I'm concerned, all of those other things are besides the point. The only thing that matters right now is the safety of the OP and her children. And the only way that can be guaranteed right now is for them to not be around this man. If in the future he seeks and receives help, resolves his issues 100%, returns to the family home, and never has another outburst of this nature then that's fantastic. I'm sure that's the outcome everyone on this thread is hoping for. But until then, OP - and I'm really sorry because I know this thread is heavy going and you're in a heartbreaking situation - you need to take practical steps to ensure your children's safety. Everything else comes second.

Hes not a good dad. He's an abusive cunt. It's disgusting how many people are queuing up to justify his behaviour.

Thank you all - With so many posts all telling me the same thing I now feel strong enough to reach out to friends and family for help, I see this is a massive issue, not something that is just my fault and to be put up with. I will protect my children.

Good for you. It's a brave thing to do, but the right thing to do. Good luck. Keep posting.

Interesting how noise only bothers him when it's his children making it. His own temper, his own mouse smashing shit up must be considerable but he tolerates it amazingly, doesn't he?

This is in fact very typical of people with sensory integration problems: noise they are not expecting and cannot control is incredibly distressing, whereas they are fine with noise they can control.

OP, you need to persuade your husband to go to a doctor with you to explain all of this and ask for referrals to test for sensory problems, and also in relation to stress and anger management.

Your DH should not be around children, any children. He is violent and unpredictable. If you ignore this then he might hurt one of them and you’d never forgive yourself. My mother used to be violent to objects when she was angry/upset/frustrated. It’s ruined my childhood and my adult life. Get help. You need to see a solicitor to stop him seeing the kids on his own and you need to get him anger management help. Give him a year. Tell him he needs to go somewhere every week for a year and then you will re evaluate the relationship but do not let him near those kids until that has happened.

This is not your fault.
You shouldn't have to put up with it and neither should your kids.
Hope you get lots of RL help.
He does need to move out for now. Maybe don't "confront" him alone.

Unfortunately it does not matter whether abusive behaviour is coming from a root of purposeful strategy of control, or a root of trauma.

The effect is still the same on those who are the victims, and in the case of children being the victims, it's imprinting on them and causing damage every time it happens. It is bad enough for adults who can suffer PTSD as a result of witnessing or being a victim of abusive behaviour - adults can generally place abusive behaviour into a context of healthy adult behaviour. Children can't, especially when it's a parent or other adult in a position of responsibility for them, because they simply do not have the templates for healthy behaviour already. They are building those templates and when they witness abuse, the templates will contain abuse.

Unfortunately not leaving him in SOLE charge of the children is insufficient, if he's unable to control these reactions. You cannot guarantee to keep them totally quiet and unannoying forever because children do naturally make noise, cry and scream and act in incredibly infuriating ways. They can't help that, and they can't choose to remove themselves from the situation. If he can't help his reaction (which I accept can be a thing) then he must remove himself from the situation, because they can't.

Not being in sole charge might help with this, as it would mean he could leave at a moment's notice if he was feeling things build up without worrying about the children being unattended, but if there's a chance he might slip and react violently anyway then it doesn't work. It is safer and more foolproof if he moves out for the time being and if he wishes to move back then it would be a good idea to seek help - but it really needs to come from him, anyway - it doesn't work quite the same if it's not something he really believes and wants to do.

I’m really sorry to hear this OP. It’s horrible for you. I’m sure this situation you’re in has crept up on you and it’s easy to brush it aside, but I’m so glad you’re going to get help.

Me and my sister were in the same situation as your two DCs, nobody did anything to help us. I used to lie in bed shivering with fear listening to the outbursts, my sister used to run and hide under the dining table. We have both had our fair share of mental health problem as a result and I’m afraid my relationship with my mother isn’t great as an adult.

Lots of love to you and I hope you have the support to make changes to protect your DCs.

Your poor children.
This is threatening behaviour and it's terrifying. I'd be so scared if it was me and I'm an adult who can protect myself, these are children. They're trying to tell you they're terrified, please listen.

I also have an extreme emotional reaction to screaming and crying.

I have fantasised about putting a hole in the wall, smashing the tv to pieces, ripping a door off its hinges......you get the idea.

However, I have NEVER acted on it because I know full well how frightening that would be for my child. It takes self control, something that your husband severely lacks. He needs to get a handle on this pronto.

Morphene. X

Your poor poor children. Get them away from him op.

Hi there, I'm a new member here. I found this part of the website through googling about my own issues, and I'm working up the courage to post my own issues/experience,but I saw this and just wanted to comment.

Firstly, I just wanted to say that the mere fact you posted this thread shows you know this is not right and potentially damaging to your children. You know as you saw their reaction, comforting each other at his outburst, and that stayed with you, so much so you mentioned it here. You know this isn't right or fair or safe for your children, and you're right, it's not. If he cannot keep them safe, it's your sole job now, they have to come first, they need to be safe.

Secondly, I wanted to say something you may not like, but may have the impact you need.
You say how lovely and good-natured your children are, which is lovely. Now, I want you to see those sweet children doing exactly what your husband does, acting in anger, see their faces change to that of rage like his. See them terrifying their future children in the exact same way. If this picture disturbs you as it should then you now know you need to remove these children from this situation ASAP.
I say this from experience. I was raised in a house where this happened, where rage was used to show frustrations and things were broken including glass doors. It's awful and terrifying. I was a naturally sweet natured child, but now as an adult I am ashamed to say that I am prone to anger outbursts and I resent my mother for not removing me or providing me with a safe and non toxic environment.

Your children could go on to be just like their father and learn this behaviour, or end up in abusive relationships as violence has been normalised for them, it's all they know.

Please just get your kids out of there now. You know it's wrong and unsafe, that's why you've shared all of this here. You now have to remove them from this situation.
As a child who lived through this, that's what we're screaming in our heads, GET ME OUT OF THIS HOUSE!

Welcome to MN, @bethy15. You sound like a very wise and caring person, and hopefully MN can offer you the same sort of support and care that you have just offered the OP. Don't worry if it takes a while to get up the courage to post about your issue - you will do it when the time is right for you.

In the meantime, can I recommend a visit to the Mumsnet Classics section, if you'd like to find some threads to have you howling with laughter - The Elderly Korean lady in a MNers garden, for example.

My DS is Autistic, and all his whining, screaming, shouting drives me up the wall but I have never resorted to what your DH does.

This is very bad OP, I don’t think myself and my kids can live with someone like this. What happens once they reach teen-hood and he has to go through pubertal/emotionally demanding teens ? Is he going to do all that smashing and banging then ?

Also it’s not good for your kids to see their dad doing this. They will then copy and resort to smashing/banging things when frustrated.

I rarely comment on here but felt I needed to reply to this. Rages, loss of temper, violence at objects (and occasionally directed at me and my sister). Just because he hasn't directed it at a person yet it doesn't mean that he won't. I grew up in a household like this. My sister and I both suffered mental health issues as a result. I am better now but I still struggle with anxiety sometimes. There was a programme on women's hour on Radio 4 this week which talked about the long term impact on children who grow up in environments like this. Their body is continually on high alert and they are living on the edge of fear waiting for the next blow up. You've already said how they are learning to tiptoe 'ssh!' around him. Not to mention the effect on you. And so yes, this is damaging your children. That makes it his fault not yours but it doesn't sound as though he is going to do anything about it. And no, it won't pass. How will he cope with teenagers who argue back or pose different challenges. I think it's up to you (for your own health and that of your children's) to seriously think about other options. Could you see a therapist or someone to talk this through? Or call the Domestic Violence helpline.

And yes, to echo Bethy15, if you stay, your children will learn that this is an acceptable (and perhaps the only) way to express anger.

Sorry, I'm posting again as my message was jumbled!

I rarely comment on here but felt I needed to reply to this. I grew up in a household like this. Rages, loss of temper, violence at objects (and occasionally directed at me and my sister). Just because he hasn't directed it at a person yet it doesn't mean that he won't. My sister and I both suffered mental health issues as a result. I am better now but I still struggle with anxiety sometimes.

There was a programme on women's hour on Radio 4 this week which talked about the long term impact on children who grow up in environments like this. Their body is continually on high alert and they are living on the edge of fear waiting for the next blow up. You've already said how they are learning to tiptoe 'ssh!' around him. Not to mention the effect on you.

And so yes, this is damaging your children. That makes it his fault not yours but it doesn't sound as though he is going to do anything about it. And no, it won't pass. How will he cope with teenagers who argue back or pose different challenges? I think it's up to you (for your own health and that of your children's) to seriously think about other options. Could you see a therapist or someone to talk this through? Or call the Domestic Violence helpline.

Thank you for the lovely welcome SDTG, that's so lovely of you. I hope so, I don't feel ready for home truths in honesty, that's why I know the OP is ready to make a change, because she laid it all out there. She must know it's time, the time will come for me too. Other people's problems are always easier to see clearly compared to your own.

I'll give those areas a look, I have to say, this Relationship part of the forum is some of the best advice I have seen anywhere online and so lovely and caring. It's amazing.

It's great that you are reaching out to family and friends, OP. They can help you put pressure on this man to seek help. And their horror and disgust at his behaviour may get through to him more than his children's distress - I bet he's told you not to say anything to anyone else, because he doesn't want people to know how abusive he is.
You might well need to have a few people with you when you tell him to pack a bag and get out of the house, in case he has another tantrum. Because he needs to leave, not you or the DC. Where he goes is not your problem.

Sensory processing disorder?? Really? People will use any BS explanation to excuse abusive behaviour.

My dd has SPD and as soon as she hears noise that is painful, she covers her hears and moves away. She has never used louder noise to drown out a trigger noise. It doens't work that way!

Besides, I am sure op & her dh have been around noise before they had kids, I am assuming he isn't reclusive. If he had a disorder that noise triggered, they would have found out before now. For example, but again, an assumption...he went to school as a kid? When he heard children screaming?

Not buying the "sensory overload" here, sorry.

Really? I couldn’t care less about what’s up with the DH, the children are being abused. If I knew about this in real life, I would make the call to Children’s Services myself.