Husband gets violent when our children scream or cry

[Avocado10]

We have 2 children, DS is 18mths and DD is 6.5. Both have lovely sunny natures and would not be considered difficult children. I was always more in favour of having children (particularly the 2nd) than him but he is a great dad and does wonderful stuff with both of them that I would never think of. He has always struggled when they cry or particularly scream, it gets into his head, hurts his ears he says (he wears earplugs when putting DS to bed if he cries). He is also prone to depression now and then -on the one full day (ever) I left him minding both of them in March (Easter) while I was at work he was on the Samaritians website that evening and retreated into himself. Over the past few months there have been times when one or both DC is being difficult/crying/screaming and he has lost his rag. Not directly at them or me, but with anger directed at objects. Last year when he had both of them for a few hours one morning they both did something to annoy him and he smashed a fruit bowl and some mugs onto the floor - my daughter still talks about this. At Easter this year when he had that bad patch he nearly put his fist through a wall and nearly broke the kitchen door he slammed it so hard so many times whenever they made too much noise. Yesterday morning he was doing the nursery and school run (I rarely ask him to do both but I had a deadline in work) and my son apparently screamed for half an hour after I left for work, DD then yelled at him when he picked her up from school later on (she was exhausted after her school trip) and that evening DS screamed at DD when she took at toy off him in the garden - at which point DH took a shovel and bashed it against a wall very hard a number of times, partly smashing the chalkboard on it. He then stormed off without a word. DS and DD stood in the garden watching, DD gave DS a hug while DS just stood watching and then put his finger to his lips in a sssh motion. Obviously that was a bad day but it scared them. His anger is never directed at us, just at objects. He is not one for talking about it afterwards, besides, I don't know what to say as I feel it is my fault for putting us in this situation, he could happily have not had children. Is this reasonable behaviour? Do I just weather the storm and hope it will pass when they are a little older (he was not like this before we had kids)? Does he need help? He is scaring DD and I am worried what kind of impression it gives to both of them if they remember this when they are older.

Does he do it in front of nursery teachers? His parents, neighbours? If not he can control it just chooses not too so that tells you everything you need to know.

I imagine some people take their wedding vows literally "in sickness and in health" etc. When it's really about physical illness and not mental. Mental health is the other person's responsibility entirely.

Being depressed is nothing to do with being abusive to your children. You need to ensure the safety of your children - your husband cannot continue to be in their lives.

Avocado I know you are somewhat shaken by some of the responses on this thread.

Firstly, thank you for recognising that this is not normal and asking for advice.

I think the number of responses (and strength of some of them) is because others can recognise that this is a dangerous situation and one that is already damaging your children. And we are shocked and scared for them.

For those posters who are criticising you, I think what they are missing that when behaviour like this creeps in so slowly, chip by chip, day by day, that it becomes 'normal' to you. I was in a relationship like this, it was like death by a thousand cuts, each so small it hardly seemed to matter - but all together? A totally different story.

Whereas to us it is shocking, it is violent and it is NOT normal. From your last post it sounds as if you are taking action, I just wanted to wish you well and please do keep us updated. There is a huge amount of emotional support and practical advice here. Good luck.

I second what Scoobydoop said about emotional flashbacks.

It sounds like he’s got some anger issues in that perhaps anger was expressed in a very scary way around him when he was growing up (hence why these things get passed down in families) - ask him how anger was expressed by his parents when he was growing up?

And also the depression is a clue to unresolved anger - when you’re unable to express your anger in a healthy way (because of not learning how to from good examples when you were little) you can easily turn it in on yourself, which makes you depressed. So it might be he has a bubbling pot of anger locked up and when something triggers him it all spills out.

Ask him to look at this website and see if it resonates - pete-walker.com

And pete-walker.com/13StepsManageFlashbacks.htm

It’s probably going to take a lot of unpicking.

The NHS tend to focus on CBT type therapy which isn’t so useful for issues like this - it will basically give some coping mechanisms or attempt to change his thinking when he comes across triggers like your children being noisy.

If he wants to get to the root of it all and stop the things triggering him in the first place, then a longer term therapy like psychotherapy is better. You do see benefits quite quickly but the more you talk the deeper the resolution gets.

If he’s good otherwise and is willing to take responsibility for his issue and address it, I don’t see why you would need to turf him out! If he’s willing to address it he will no doubt benefit from your support. BUT you’ll have to weigh up keeping your children safe and the support you’re able to give happily, without this being a massive burden to you.

You sound like you could benefit from a bit of therapy yourself to explore where that tendency to take all the blame comes from. You are not to blame for this at all.

Your husband is basically a terrible cunt.

My XH was like this.

His dad was like that to him.

His grandad was like that to his dad.

Etc.

I feel sorry for your children living in a state of heightened anxiety when they’re left alone with Dad. They’re probably waiting for the bomb to go off with every second that passes. Poor things.

PS if I sound a bit blasé it’s because I grew up in an environment with a parent like this. I recognise that it’s not normal, but it’s almost normal to me... it WILL damage your kids. It’s damaged me.

He needs to go

If your daughter grows up and is with a man that trashed things and terrifies her... is that ok, because he didn’t hit her?
Don’t let this be your little people’s normal x

This is a very upsetting thread to read and I am only glad OP that you are beginning to realise just how awful this is and how much damage it's doing to you and your DC. I really hope you can get help for him, but please do not minimise this. He needs help but in the meantime this is an appalling abusive situation.

He is ill. The kids are not safe. Leave whilst he sorts himself out.

I recall sitting on the stairs at night listening to my stepdad raging at me mum, I could see a chair fly across the room as I could see the living room through the ajar door from where I was.

The anger/rage is terrifying enough for a child by itself, never mind acting it out on inanimate objects.

Op you have my sympathies (your dc too) but this isn't something he can't control, when you go to the park if a child screamed would he smash things? Or if you were at a barbecue with friends and their child cried would he destroy things or repeatedly slam doors? If someone brings a noisy child along to your dd's school play will he storm out and become violent? I doubt it very much. I bet his behaviour has gradually become normal to you over time but he will get progressively worse if you continue to allow it. It's possible he could get help and change but that shouldn't be your primary concern right now - protecting those kids of yours from any further harm should be. Have you anyone in real life you can turn to? If not get in touch with womens aid ASAP. Good luck

Avocado your only step is to ensure your children are safe

It is not for you to spend time trying to investigate him for possible reasons. I would do this for my child but not my adult partner you are his wife not his mother. Don’t sink more of your time into him right now - tell him why he’s leaving, give him the reasons and it’s up to him to go find solutions

My Dh suffers severe depression. On one ocassion when DD was 3 she screamed for ages and he took an oven tray and smashed it up with his fists. I took the children and left, we went to the park and had a picnic. I didn't reply to any texts or calls. Returned home 5 hours later and he demanded to know where I'd been, I refused to speak to him. I told him if he EVER behaved like that again we'd all be gone forever.

He has never done it again.

I think it was an attempt to prove "You don't get to be unhappy, I am the one suffering here, I am the one who gets attention"

A pathetic childish tantrum.

Do not put up with it or make excuses. If he doesn't do it at work and in front of others he can control himself and if he can't control himself he is very dangerous so either way - tell him no more. Leave if he continues.

He needs help. He needs to seek alternative accommodation and seek help with this, immediately. Your children will be living in fear and it will affect them, in future. My husband often lost his rag and would throw objects, punch doors (breaking them). It wasn’t long before he started pushing me around. We are not together now.

I'm sensitive to loud sounds, particularly high pitched ones. They make me feel really anxious and stressed. I get away from the sound and sit somewhere quiet when able. The fact that your husband reacts to your kids noise with more noise just doesn't make any sense. It sounds like more of an anger issue that is triggered by loud sounds. He needs counselling to work on his angry response to noise. It's not a healthy or safe environment for you and the children so I would definitely separate if I was in your situation.

Your children are very tiny. All it requires is a very brief explosion of anger towards your children .... which might not be intentional, for something to happen. Your duty is to protect the children before your dh. Your dh’s behaviour has been learned and accepted and I very much doubt can be changed. Violent abusers rarely change. I really do speak from experience here. Some fathers should not have children.
I realise how difficult and upsetting this thread is - but leave . You would never forgive yourself if something happened.

My XP frequently behaved like this towards me. Fortunately we did not have children together. His anger issues were a big part of the reason why I left him. He would, like your DH, shout, smash things & frequently be out of control. He frightened me, often, on purpose. He never physically stuck me but I do believe it was only a matter of time. Towards the end he did raise his hand as if to hit me, on 2 separate occasions. I am glad I got out. Abusers almost invariably escalate their behaviour.

It's not good enough to say they won't be alone with him. They shouldn't have to see or hear his rages. If he can't (or won't) control his behaviour then he needs to leave. Even if that's temporarily.

Another in support of 'emotional flashbacks' as the issue here.

I had 3/4 explosions of rage like this during my DD's 0-3 period. They were very scary and I did get help. In my case I can say that while the rage was uncontrollable in its existence, it was controllable in its expression. My DD was never in any immediate danger. I felt I couldn't breathe till I had used the full force of my strength - but there was no way on earth I would use it against my DD. The danger from the psychological impact, on the other hand, is something that still keeps me awake at night 3 years later.

Did I ever lose it at work? No. Because the trigger wasn't at work. Nothing at work (thank goodness) is capable of making me relive the feeling of utter helplessness and worthlessness that I experienced during childbirth...my DD screaming at me non-stop for an hour was.

Mental health is rather more complex than 'only a total areshole would do that'. Not seeking help for your mental health when it is causing others distress is another matter.

This is not about noise sensitivity or mental health; it is abuse. He is choosing to behave like this and is in control of his actions. I am assuming he chooses not to take out his frustrations with his boss in a similar way? He could phone the Respect phone line as a first port of call (respectphoneline.org.uk/contact-us/).

How terrifying for your dc to witness these outbursts of violence. They are unaware of the causes but will ultimately believe they are to blame.
Your dd should never have to comfort her sibling because of her fathers behaviour.

Growing up myself in a home with a raging father who kicked holes in doors, flung toys around rooms etc... taught me to walk on eggshells around him and that his temper was more important than my safety!
He was a crap father who didn't care about the effects of his rages on the innocent children around him.
It made the times he wasn't raging harder to enjoy living in fear of what would set him off
He eventually turned his rage on some of his children leaving the others to then helplessly witness this abuse wondering if they'd be next!!
We were never shielded or protected from this violence which was eventually normalized as in "shh don't upset your father!!"

I agree with morphene the effect of it can be different to the cause of it. Clearly it is an unacceptable way to deal with bad feelings - pain, anger but it doesn’t necessarily mean your dh has set out to abuse his family.

He's not deliberately abusing his kids, he can't control it.
Why can't people try and understand sometimes? Is it really so difficult to try and see it from someone else's viewpoint occasionally & ask why instead of piling on to shout LTB.

People ARE seeing it from someone else’s point of view: the children’s.

As adults we get to make choices, including if we should have children, and the choice to see a doctor. Kids don’t have these choices. Besides there’s no proof that there is anything wrong with his hearing or whatever, plenty of men are abussive without having any medical conditions.