How do you feel about lap dance club/pole dancing stuff.........?

[niceglasses]

My dh works in a bit of a boyish industry - mobile phones - tends to be bit 'scummy'.

I'd say ohhhh 5 or 6 times now on a night out they have ended up at these lap dance/topless places. At least he doens't lie about it! He says they just want the extra drink. He doesn't get home till about 4/5 in the morning.

I have gently let it be known I don't like it - he says its harmless.

What do you wise lot think? I don't feel like I can 'ban' him but I do feel a bit put out.

She didn't equate lap dancing with not wanting the vote, she was showing that we don't have to accept things as they are, just because they are like that.

Pinktulips, 'this loon' - who? That's not a very reasonable or intellectual way to dismiss an argument. I actually think that post made a fairly good point: if sufragettes had just said "women can't vote but that's the way the world is so we'll live with it" then the world we live in now might be very different. So I don't think it was fair to dismiss the example, I think (Ipgirl can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't presume to speak for her) she meant that just because the world is one way doesn't mean people shouldn't challenge it.

ipanemagirl, I agree with a lot of your points about the nature of the sex industry
but what do you propose should happen?

In the UK prostitution is already illegal - yet, the reality is that the police tolerate it
as long as there is no exploitation or underage stuff going on.
And to me, that's just fine - I want the police to clamp down on real crime not enforce
a morality in a context where there is no victim.

There will always be prositution, there will be always be
a demand (mostly from men) to view or/and touch female bodies for a fee.

If you really want to help women then the only way forward is what has already happened
in Germany and in Scandinavia:
Legalise the whole darn thing, regulate it, tax it, impose stringent health & saftey rules,
give the girls full rights.

Is that not empowering women?

Only if you're easily offended, ipanema, which I'm not because for this is the net.

So personal experience can't factor into a 'debate' about 'broader issues'?

Okay,

What's wrong with everyone AIMING for what makes them happy so long as it's legal and they're happy doing it or paying for it?

Had the body in my twenties...but no confidence.
Have the confidence now....but crap body!

Please don't attack me for this....
but in my honest opinion
which is what these forums are all about...

if you are making an informed choice..
What's the problem?

I have two daughters,
yes, i'd like them to be brain surgeons

but should they choose to pole dance/lap dance.....
i would worry about them
but i would worry about them if they were, for e.g....psychiatric nurses,(as i was) a&e nurse, police,etc etc...

lost puppy, I said that because you seem to be just trotting out the same old kind of 'Loaded' philosophy which is "AWW it's all a bit of fun mate, bit of slap and tickle!"
And that just isn't the real world in my view. It doesn't take in the world as it is, with domestic violence, family breakdown etc. There are huge problems in our society and I genuinely believe that the denigration of women contributes to some of these problems! Education should teach us all to question the status quo. Not just accuse everyone who wants to discuss gender of being unattractive or envious! That seems sad that people don't want to question anything on this issue! It effects all of us!

you are saying that men and women should ignore their natural urges to enjoy looking at members of the other sex simply because IYO it objectifies the one who is being watched?

despite the fact that that person chose the job and is being paid through the nose for it?

you equate women being happy lap dancing with not having independent thought or ambition for their lives.

you suggest that those of us who worked in the industry obviously know less about what it's really like than you, someone who clearly has a very narrow minded view of the industry and i doubt has done much research into the topic she is trying to debate

let me ask you, do you wear make up? nice clothes? care about your appearance? feel good when someone compliments you? because if you do you're a hypocrite because by your arguments all these things are 'objectifying' acts against you

PT, it was abusive to call IG a 'loon'.

but women were forced not to vote.

no woman is forced to strip.

therefore that arguement makes no choice as you are equating a choice with an opressive act against us and that simply isn't accurate

'Education should teach us all to question the status quo.'

Says who?

I think it should teach people how to first and foremost earn a decent living in a way they see fit and that's legal.

If that to them means stripping, well, more power to them.

Questioning the status quo doesn't pay the rent, IME.

Education is a powerful tool but are we really going to be able to re-educate people who have
a sexual need that is not fulfilled?
Why can we not let them find a properly regulated outlet in the sex industry for this need?

What can we tell them that will make this powerful sexual need go away?

If you have an answer, then I would say sod the sex industry, let's first re-educate paedophiles!

I'll thank you not to put such words into my mouth!

I dont see those magazines as denigrating women because the women choose to display themselves, and are handsomely paid for doing so. Whilst they have that choice it is they that have the upper hand.

There is a bloody big difference between wearing make up and stripping off to arouse a room full of men.

• arguement makes no sensethat should read.

baby climbing me

Blimey, expat, that is truly, depressingly reductionist view of education.

OK I just want to know what people think would be IDEAL.
I know we do not have that ideal but if we don't have an ideal what do we aim for and what do we teach our children?

DaddyJ "give the girls full rights" not to be humourless but I would hope they are women unfortunately most of them aren't.

What message do you want to send your sons and daughters?

Anything goes?

'I dont see those magazines as denigrating women because the women choose to display themselves, and are handsomely paid for doing so. Whilst they have that choice it is they that have the upper hand'

but it's exactly the same with lap dancing!

I dont see lapdancing as denigrating women either.

The ideal as I see it, is that sex and sexual arousal are to deepen the marriage bond, and for that reason anything outside of that is not ok. I doubt you will find many people who agree with me, but I feel that is because people don't feel that it is possible.

maybe to you it is, rowan. that's why this forum is here, sharing opinions.

i had the classic question the status quo education.

and tbh, i wish i'd now learned some more practical things.

Lostpuppy
Lots of people are paid really well for indefensible actions.
That is not a good argument in itself!

Who is getting the worse deal, the woman who gets to make a LOT of money by doing some dancing, or the bloke that gets fleeced of hundreds of quid for a drunken leer

So you'd really be happy if your daughter was a lap dancer?

Good posts ipanemagirl, I agree with you.

It isn't?

By whose definitions and perimeters?

Why or why do some people have to turn everything into a bloody agrument they then call 'debate'?

What a way to live life!

Isn't it hard enough as it is without making it more complicated and fraught and bloody hard work?

Live and let live.