How do you feel about lap dance club/pole dancing stuff.........?

[niceglasses]

My dh works in a bit of a boyish industry - mobile phones - tends to be bit 'scummy'.

I'd say ohhhh 5 or 6 times now on a night out they have ended up at these lap dance/topless places. At least he doens't lie about it! He says they just want the extra drink. He doesn't get home till about 4/5 in the morning.

I have gently let it be known I don't like it - he says its harmless.

What do you wise lot think? I don't feel like I can 'ban' him but I do feel a bit put out.

but the girls on page 3 choose to be there? they want the job and they know what it involves, and they get paid well for it!

Ipanemagirl, women are also objectified as carers, cleaners and mothers in out society. Sex work, like any other work, can leave you vulnerable to exploitation, but it can also be fun, satisfying and lucrative.

Pink tulips already said it. Women are making a FORTUNE at the moment from stripping. Look at the success of Nuts, Zoo and Loaded magazines.

They tried page seven fellas but women werent really interested.

I'm so surprised that this argument is reduced to just the experiences of those who have happily worked in sex industries. Can you not look any wider at our society and how people behave? Can you not, instead of just being defensive, actually look beyond what was a practical choice for you at the time? Women winning the vote was about us NOT being objects! Sex industries objectify all women. Some of you do fine out of it but that does not release you from being capable of looking beyond yourselves! Eduation teaches us to think beyond ourselves! Maybe even to take a flight into the idea that what we do might deserve questioning!

I have no doubt that there are people who choose this work and make money and are fine.

But the objectification of women is to do with how men are educated to think of all women! So it is relevant to all of us! Personally I don't see lap dancing as equivalent to being at ease with my body! That is a very odd extrapolation from what I said!

pmsl.

i chose not to argue with the loon today. there are so many flaws in that logic it would take me all night to try and argue and from the sounds of it there would be no point.

my children need dinner... or is cooking it for them objectifying me as a woman. should i get dp to burn some toast for them?

ipanema girl,

Sex industries objectify all men AND women

That is kind of the point. People pay to look at or use the object of their desires.

More women are in the sex industry because less women are bothered about paying for the pleasure

ipanemagirl - to be a conventional feminist on these threads at the moment is to invite abuse, it seems (I stress 'conventional' - not claiming that those of you in favour of lap-dancing are not necessarily feminists). Well done to you for plugging away though.

I'll second that rowan, I agee with almost everything you say ipanema

'Can you not, instead of just being defensive, actually look beyond what was a practical choice for you at the time? '

When I got made redundant during dot.bomb and couldn't for the life of me find a job as there were thousands of others made redundant at the same time, my chief interest was paying my bills in a timely fashion and saving up for expedition fees.

Plus, working as a waitress at night left me free to climb during the day and get fit for the trip.

I'm sure if I'd told a collections agency I couldn't pay them because it might mean being 'objectified' they'd have let me right off the hook.

It was about making the maximum amount of money in the least amount of time.

You're very lucky you're wealthy enough to be able to afford your principles.

Please don't judge those of us who aren't or who have different principles.

lostpuppy, if you think that men and women are equal in terms of the sex industries and the only difference is women not being bothered then I despair. It seems breathtakingly or wilfully ignorant! Sorry if that's offensive but you amaze me.

I thought, 'Well, I've got a skill lots don't have. I'm outgoing and I have a great body and good looks.'

So why not make a living from that?

That's not what I am saying.

I am saying that if women were more interested in paying to watch men dance, strip, or for escorts then there would be far more men in the sex industries. But they arent, so there arent

To expand on expat's post,

Why as a society do we not congratulate people for being good looking and allow them to earn money from that? Instead we criticise them as 'slappers'. Is it just jealousy?

Why do we congratulate athletes or footballers, who have done no more than a beautiful person in having the good fortune to be born with that 'talent'?

Expat - this is the world we live in. But - can we not have a view about the world as we might have it? Should we not aspire to anything more? So the suffragettes could say "Oh F** it - what do we need to have the vote for? This is how the world is - forget it!" An inspiring view of history no?

Education is about learning to to think, argue, questioin.
Not just to extrapolate all theory from our own personal experience imo.

The Greeks debated with each other to test what they believed like science tests hypotheses. If we don't question anything we are not using our educations and we are like Lostpuppy.

Whatever anyone has to do to make a living is fine with me. But to be so against any kind of discussion of gender issues seems to be really narrow minded and defensive to me.

My education taught me to think and I would have thought yours might have done too.

'Why as a society do we not congratulate people for being good looking and allow them to earn money from that? Instead we criticise them as 'slappers'. Is it just jealousy? '

I often wonder that, LP, because I used to be what was generally considered good looking, and I have a daughter whose, so far, biggest asset is her looks.

Why be ashamed to say that or profit from it?

my God lostpuppy, we hold the beautiful in such high regard in our society that it is almost to the loss of everything else!

But appreciating beauty is very different from condoning the sex industry, no?

What do you mean by " If we don't question anything we are not using our educations and we are like Lostpuppy."

So now you're assuming I don't think because I don't agree with you, ipanema?

And tying this all in with the vote. There's an extrapolation!

Stripping and hooking existed before women got the vote, too.

Just because someone's idea of a 'gender issue debate' isn't really a 'debate' at all in your opinion doesn't mean they're ignorant, worthless cretins.

I think they're vile. And I wouldn't be happy about my dh going to one (but neither would he want to).

Have only skimmed the thread but I think Ipanemagirl makes some excellent points - lapdancing clubs are relevant to discussions about gender and equality.

Skidaddle

We may pay to view the beautiful, by buying magazines or watching films, but we dont seem to respect them for their innate 'talent' which is 'being beautiful'

Strippers vote, too .

Well your argument doesn't take in the broader picture of gender issues. Your argument is imo a weak one based on personal experience!
If your best argument is it's ok I did it don't be mean I celebrate my body then tbh that does not demonstrate a huge amount of thought!
I'm asking you what you think we should AIM for!!! Or is that offensive for some reason??

'After the ruinous experiments of the lately deceased century, after so much vile behaviour, so many deaths, a queasy agnosticism has settled around these matters of justice and redistributed wealth. No more big ideas. The world must improve, if at all, by tiny steps. People mostly take an existential view - having to sweep the streets for a living looks like simple bad luck. It's not a visionary age. The streets need to be clean. Let the unlucky enlist.'

Ian McEwan, Saturday.

For ipanemagirl, re. her post of 16.26!