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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Being the other woman/conniving in deception/dropping the trapdoor

310 replies

Smudge100 · 09/06/2018 20:08

Six years ago I came home from work to find my then husband had thoughtfully changed the locks on the house before eloping with the woman down the road. When I finally gained entry, I discovered that they had everything useful and even my poor dog.

It’s a common enough story. However, the lady in question was someone I felt close to. She had successfully posed as a friend to both of us, so successfully in fact that I never had an inkling that she had having an affair with my husband for eighteen months. I was later to learn that they had planned their departure to coincide with her reaching pensionable age (at 50, I might add), so that they could both retire to the area where my then husband and I had for years planned to spend our twilight years. Every detail had been carefully put in place. I was left to discover over the ensuing few months not only how methodical and comprehensive their planning had been, but how heavily it had relied upon my ignorance of it. I still struggle with the scale of that duplicity and the extent of my own wilful blindness.

In the intervening years I have given considerable thought to the steely nerves and the sheer brazenness it must have taken for her to maintain that equaniminous demeanour of unruffled nonchalance whilst pursuing a project that she knew would rob me not just of my future, but my faith in human nature and in my own judgement. I’m not suggesting that she owed me a duty of loyalty – far from it - she owed me much less than my equally devious ex-husband. But strangely, I have actually wondered more about her role in it than his. My question is not: have you ever been the Other Woman? There have been plenty of threads in that particular well-worn vein, though I certainly wouldn’t want to discourage anyone with that particular experience from posting, in fact I’d be very interested to hear your point of view. It is however rather, have you ever been a party to the carefully-planned and protracted deception of a third party, particularly someone you knew well? If so, why? Was it for personal gain? Did you despise your victim? Feel they deserved what they got? Ever feel a tinsy bit guilty or the need to justify/rationalise it to yourself? What were your motives exactly? I’m not here to judge anyone, I’m long beyong that now, I’m just still curious about the psychological dynmamic of cheating, the whole process of misleading, placating, dissembling before another person, of not being yourself, of not showing your true face and the strain that places, if any, on the person practising deception. Please feel free to be brutally honest. If only they had been.

OP posts:
Irregularchoicesss · 10/06/2018 13:56

I never said i wasn't married...

I would suggest that you look closer to home for the reasons you were left for another woman. Rather than take out your fury and frustration on others. I am not to blame for what happened to you. Being bitter about it isn't helping you in the long run. Learn from it. Forgive them. Move on.

Irregularchoicesss · 10/06/2018 13:59

Startling because you were capable of it? Upsetting because you haven't forgiven yourself? Again, look closer to home at your own feelings. If you are ashamed that's your problem. Don't try and moral high ground it when you're a hypocrite who should have walked away. You didn't walk away. Deal with that.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 10/06/2018 14:02

1950 called, they want you back

Because everyone knows the husbands of perfect wives back then never cheated. Wink

longdaysandpleasantnights · 10/06/2018 14:10

People cheat because they can, it is not always because the mundanity of life has gotten them down, or their partners have ‘let themselves go’. If this was the case then I’m pretty sure Halle Berry, Sandra Bullock, Jennifer Aniston, etc. would not have been cheated on.
They cannot afford to let themselves go, if they do they will lose their acting jobs. And I’m pretty sure Jennifer Aniston wasn’t boring Brad Pitt with tales of buying pretzels from CostCo.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 10/06/2018 14:12

Good news for your DH that you're so cool with adultery and that it's always the cheated on partner's fault @Irregularchoicesss Hmm

itsadventuretime · 10/06/2018 14:18

longdays TRUTH

Sometimes an opportunity presents itself and people do stupid shit. And in the cases they get caught up in it and it turns into longer-term, they retrofit reasons to justify it to themselves (comparing OH with fresh new catch, looking for all the negatives in their OH and forgetting about all the good, rewriting history etc...)

Blaablaablaa · 10/06/2018 14:24

@irregularchoicess you are essentially laying the blame for a man's infidelity at the wife's feet. SHE has become homely , SHE nags and moans,SHE has become boring . It's HER responsibility to make an effort and keep things exciting.

I think you'll find it's HIS responsibility to be faithful.

I once thought like this but I was very young and had those ideas planted in my head by my misogynistic, shallow idiot of an ex husband. Eventually I grew up and met someone with a bit of integrity who finds family life satisfying - because if you BOTH make the effort to build something it can be wonderful.

FellOutOfBed2wice · 10/06/2018 14:25

Not the kind of long term plan you’re talking about but I was knowingly the other woman in a dynamic where I knew both the husband and wife when I was 17-18. My only defence is that I was very young, naive and a bit stupid. I was also a bit groomed- he was older and in a position of power over me. I wouldn’t do it now and as an adult woman who is married I’m appalled at my own actions.

My thoughts on his wife and knowing her were that he told me that she was dreadful and making his life miserable and was a tyrant to live with etc and I swallowed it whole. Looking back that in itself was ridiculous, but I bet that happens a lot more than you’d think. For all you know, your husband could have said your seemingly nice personality was a persona and that you were abusive. Doesn’t excuse it but that’s often the dynamic I think.

Where2live · 10/06/2018 14:28

I agree with blabaa, it's like @irregularchoices thinks on a very deep level that women have to entertain men. A unit / couple is team work, and life has ups and life has downs. The woman shouldn't have to counsel the man through the downs by being super pleasing and fun and bending over backwards so that life's hicoughs aren't felt so hard by him because she is enduring the bumps in the road for him.

Really smacks of having internalised the patriarchy to cough up that script about women at home not beinng fun and nagging.

Where2live · 10/06/2018 14:30

@irregularchoices, and as for not having ownership of a partner, I left my x when he wouldn't meet me half way, wouldn't compromise, when I realised that his selfishness and his entitlement were all at my expense. You're right, he didn't have ownership of me. He wasn't entitled to a partner who gave while he took. I left. He was devastated for years.

Irregularchoicesss · 10/06/2018 14:32

Sigh.
The point being, I don't do any domestic chores. I don't clean. I don't cook. I don't iron. I have a cleaner every day.
We don't argue about money as that isn't an issue.

I place the blame at either partner of either gender not putting in effort to keep a relationship exciting. It's not just women. Men are equally to blame.
I learned from my flings. I chose wisely.

There is no one person solely responsible for the demise of a relationship. It's hard to hear that when you have been cheated on. But if there weren't underlying issues, cheating doesn't happen.

Whether you picked a man with massive commitment issues, let yourself go, developed a gambling habit, stopped being fun, whatever the reason, it's never all down to one person.

Being bitter and upset does not help you in the long run. It makes it harder to meet someone new. Who wants a partner still hung up on they cheated and betrayed me and it was sooooooo unfair?

Blaablaablaa · 10/06/2018 14:32

I'd also hazard a guess that these nagging, moaning wives are only doing so because their husbands are being pretty shit husbands and dads......which they clearly are spending family money and time on people like @irregularchoicess

BOO32 · 10/06/2018 14:37

The sad thing about irregular is that she learned about men from cheaters. Hence she is now running her whole life around avoiding the "mistakes" those cheater's wives made.

Blaablaablaa · 10/06/2018 14:45

@irregularchoicess that's where you're wrong. My ex husband cheated on me despite me doing everything he expected me to do the keep the marriage exciting.....and he was very demanding and particular. He cheated on me because the opportunity arose and and he chose to go along with it instead of saying no.

If a man or woman choses to cheat in their partner it is not a reflection on their spouse. It absolutely everything to do with their choice. If there is something in the relationship that's not working then address it or leave. It is never a reason to cheat.

It sounds like that's the narrative you've chosen to believe to justify your behaviour.

I'm not bitter about my ex cheating. He did me a huge favour! It gave me a reason to escape what was essentially a controlling and emotionally abusive relationship. In my new marriage we work as a team...we don't try to present a perfect version to each other at all times to keep things exciting. We simply work well as a team, enjoy each others company and love each other dearly .

MarianneUnfaithfull · 10/06/2018 14:48

Husky, I'm earning more than my husband, and of course I use condoms and get tested regularly
I've been doing this for years and never been found out and neither has the men involved
It's so so common you wouldn't believe, I see a lot of people I know no these sites, some of them you would never believe capable

Huskylover1 · 10/06/2018 14:58

The point being, I don't do any domestic chores. I don't clean. I don't cook. I don't iron. I have a cleaner every day
We don't argue about money as that isn't an issue

So you have plenty of money just now. Whoop de doo.

However, if you fall on hard times, and cannot afford the daily cleaner, who will do the domestic boring chores?

If you do it, then you are giving your Partner the green light to shag a younger model, yes?

I suppose you'd have to set the alarm for 3am, and do it all under the cover of darkness, lest he saw you clean a toilet and decide that it's all too much, and tomorrow he will have to shag Laura from Accounts.

itssunnyontheterrace · 10/06/2018 15:04

This is so typical of MN. Someone writes a very thoughtful eloquent post telling her story about a particularly painful end to her marriage - and quite clearly makes a point of wanting to know the 'psychological dynamic of cheating ' has also said that she is way beyond judgement.
@irregularchoicess answers the EXACT QUESTION THE OP WAS POSING..
Feelings re their wives? I felt sorry for them because they were usually doing the wifely duties and playing by the rules. Sadly this makes women unattractive to men. Its boring. Men dont see things in the same way as women, in the main. The men wanted sexual excitement. They wanted to talk. They didn't get this at home although they clearly cared for their wives. But their wives nagged and moaned and had become motherly. Not sexy women anymore. Focussed on their families and kids too heavily. Mundane and domestic.

and yet all that follows is judgement and unpleasant name calling. 'You are a prostitute'...

Actually I think @irregularchoicess is absolutely spot on. This is exactly why men (especially) have affairs. I was the 'wifey' obsessed by children to the detriment of my relationship with my husband . I stopped being a sexually interested/interesting partner and became a baby/child obsessed mother with no interest in anything else. I thought we had a 'great marriage' until he had an affair and left us.

Three years down the line I met a man who was also 'unhappy in his marriage ' and who's 'wife didn't understand him'. However in this case it was true. We had a very short 6 week affair which i DID feel (and still do) feel guilty about. However I was selfish and put my happiness above those of someone I didn't know.
We have been genuinely happily married for 14 yrs but this time around I have not made the mistake of putting children ahead of my relationship. They have EQUAL status. The marriage needs as much work as the kids (of which now there are 7 as he had children too). Both making an effort for couple time, (frequent child free breaks) good sex and conversation keep us both wanting to be married to each other. No one likes being taken for granted.

I often hear the sarcastic 'Sorry your husband didn't accidentally slip over and find his penis in the ow's vagina' .. EQUALLY.. Your husband didn't 'accidentally leave you '. He did it because he wanted to and chose to.

Rach5l · 10/06/2018 15:10

Yes I have. My friend began an affair with a married man, cheating on her husband in the process. They are now happily married to each other but we have grown apart & I don't like him at all. She is steely in her view that they were 'meant for each other' and everybody is happier now Hmm
At the time she confided everything in me, over 4 years from starting the affair to coming out as a couple. I didn't know the wife but did know her husband obviously.
that makes me complicit in it, I'm not sure why I didn't break her confidence... she's godmother to my dc, a priest (as is he) I suppose it was shocking, she knew I didn't approve but carried on confiding in me anyway.
Like I said we're not close now, I think it's all a bit grim.

Huskylover1 · 10/06/2018 15:11

Your husband didn't 'accidentally leave you '. He did it because he wanted to and chose to

Most men don't leave their wives though. Most want to keep their cushy home life and have a few OW on the go. And mostly, they ARE still sleeping with their wives.

My first H had many OW. I did not neglect the marriage at all. I was slim, pretty, attentive and actually prettier than any of the OW but none of that mattered, because he was a serial shagger, any hole was a goal.

Nightandfog · 10/06/2018 15:11

itssunnyontheterrace spot on!

Nightandfog · 10/06/2018 15:16

Husky I think that’s where the difference is... Your exH was a serial cheater. Some cheaters as you’ve noted actually DO leave. Maybe its because they didnt figure out any other way to leave, maybe it’s because they actually fell in love.

Regardless, I think you cant blame the OW entirely when they actually leave. I would think they were eventually going to leave, maybe they were just too coward to do it on their own.

Blaablaablaa · 10/06/2018 15:17

@itssunny I would 100% agree with your sentiments about not putting children ahead of the marriage. I believe that's where the strength in my marriage lies. We are a brilliant family unit but we need and value our child free time.

However, I don't agree with your reasons why people have affairs. My ex husband cheated on me. We had no children, we were happy and he made it clear that he didn't cheat because he was unhappy or because I'd stopped making an effort. He cheated because he could and chose to and thought he could get away with it.

Irregular is placing the blame on women because they had the cheek to not be glamorous and exciting all the time.

Wallissimpson2 · 10/06/2018 15:37

I have had two affairs with married men and I barely considered the wife tbh, or felt guilty, as she wasn't the one I was directly involved with.

In both instances the wife was a good mother and they loved her but was frumpy and made no effort with her appearance. She resented the man having his own interests - sport, culture or whatever and made him go along with hers. There was no sex, no naughtiness, no adoration, no interest.

What was in it for me? A huge thrill - secrets, sex, attention. It was great tbh. One naturally came to an end- we still chat occasionally, the other is on and off.

Smudge100 · 10/06/2018 15:39

I’m blown away by the posts here. I hesitated before posting the thread but i am really glad i did. This has really given me some food for thought and made me see the experience in a different light. I’m quite sure i wasn’t without blame and i know that i took my exH for granted, as he did me. However, our marriage was happy and companionable enough, so i thought. The difficulty is how i could have got things so badly wrong.

For those of you who asked, no, i didn’t get my dog back and have never seen her from that day to this. I didn’t know where the exH was for some considerable time and when i did find out, my solicitor advised me against making contact. However, i am satisfied that the dog is being well looked after and they are both at home all the time, being retired. A friend of mine, who was a bit worried about the dog contacted my xH and asked him to send her some photos of her, which he did grudgingly and without commentary.

Thank you all again for taking the time to post. It has been very comforting and uplifting to read your posts!

OP posts:
Wallissimpson2 · 10/06/2018 15:40

Men ARE the cliche, they really are. They like tits, arses, sex, lingerie and they are VAIN, they like to be adored.

If you work from that then thats a good basis.