Only two months married and miserable...

[Slundle]

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

• Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
• Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
• Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

Your DH sounds like a narcissist. Charming on the outside, manipulative behind closed doors.
Forget about trying to keep your parents happy.
Definitely don’t have a baby with this man. Yes you definitely to start your therapy by yourself. Keep changing till you find one you connect with

You can ask when you talk initially to therapists if they have any experience or expertise in dealing with victims of narcissists. Dismiss any who quibble with whether this is the reality you are dealing with, or doubt whether you can 'diagnose' your H. Give a chance to anyone who takes narcissism seriously and is willing to work with you as a person on the receiving end of N treatment.

Your cousin is a twit. Bringing a baby into a happy family is stressful enough. End the marriage, freeze your eggs and spend some time alone to figure out who you are.

P.S. I am aware of how to treat children properly and I'm not a selfish person

You most definitely are if you bring a child into this. A baby will NOT fix you. A baby will NOT fix your relationship. You will be purposely exposing a baby to a dysfunctional life. NOT fair.

I also urge you not to get pregnant because you would be tied to him for life. I've been married for 26 years, with him for 33, but there is no more of a commitment to someone than a baby is.

You are right in that life isn't perfect. I'm glad of your honesty in this post, I honestly think life is too short to be unhappy.

Your conundrum is, you felt unhappy before you married and asked him back. Weighing up that unhappiness and this unhappiness since you married, which is the worse?

I think your anxiety lead you to feel you needed him and that lead you to ask him back. Maybe if you looked into your anxiety, it would give you the strength and clarity you need to be by yourself, if you chose that option?

I honestly think, at some point in your life, you're going to need to shake free of him, doing it with the least amount of baggage will be in your best interest.

Good luck 💐

Married and on honeymoon ex started talking about divorce. I was 7 months pregnant. I eventually said let's try for 3 years so no divorce talk til then. So he just made it hell in other ways.

I don't think we made the 3 years.

Your cousin is an eejit.

I would bail and seek a divorce.
Life doesn't have to be this hard, you know.
You do have choices.

As others have said, you seem to be lacking self-agency in this situation. It sounds like counselling will be crucial for you. You need to realise that there are more options than just staying with him.

Ultimately, it comes down to this: you cannot change him. You have been with him 12 years and you're still not happy. You've tried talking to him about his treatment of you and he's shown his true colours: he doesn't want to change or thinks he has to. If he hasn't seen this after 12 years and 4 break-ups, he never will. And regardless, nothing you do will change him; he has to want to change himself.

So, ask yourself the question "Is this where I want to be in 12 years time? With his man, with this unhappiness?" Because that is the most likely situation here. The only thing you can control is your own behaviour and actions.

Unless you are brave, forget about everyone else for a moment and do exactly what it is you need to do to make yourself happy, you will be miserable forever.

I grew up with a man like your H as a father. It was hell. I'll never forgive him for how he made me feel growing up. I've had therapy to deal with his anger and cruelty and how that affected the way I see the world. It's affected so many elements of my life. Do NOT bring a child into this hellhole, please.

The answer is not easy, but it is simple. You need to leave him. You are not happy. The obstacle in your way in yourself - you doubt that you are capable of it. But that's not true. Find a good counsellor who is on your side, buy some books about self-esteem and anxious attachment as a PP has said, and work on getting the hell out of there. You CAN do this.

You literally have one life OP. You have to make of it what you can. Stay with friends, or your parents, once you're ready. Go no contact as much as you can. Please just save yourself from a life of misery!!!!!

www.cheshirewithoutabuse.org.uk/biderman-chart-of-coercion

The link is good on how coercive control works. There is also a book by Lundy Bancroft called ‘Why Does He Do that?’
I also found ‘Stalking the Soul’ by Marie-France Hirigoyen useful to understand what was going on in my marriage.

I agree with the others that this will not get better. There is nothing you have done wrong but lack boundaries and self-esteem which is not your fault, it is due to your upbringing. A good man would not exploit that, he would not create situations (being late and not calling) where you don’t know what is going on, he would not swear and shout at you.

I am willing to bet you are not emotionally needy, but that your husband calls your quite reasonable requests for courtesy towards yourself needy.

I agree don’t have a baby; you will be even more vulnerable then. Also family law and court can be used as another means to control you, even if you separate after having that baby.

I hate the advice that some hand out on threads like this.

Op doesn't love him and is considering divorce. They are not getting along. It is inevitable in that situation that she is seeing all of his faults. It is possible to try to give someone good relationship advice without running the other person into the ground and bandying around terms such as abusive and narcissist. With only one side of the story, how can you do that sort of armchair psychology? You can make anyone seem abusive by listing all of their faults, itemising everything they've done wrong. People aren't always at their best when their relationship is in trouble.

Sometimes it is obvious from the poster's story, behaviour that is beyond the pale. Sometimes it is just two people who would be better off apart.

Op has not covered herself in glory either. She has stayed in the relationship for twelve years, gone back to him after four separations due to loneliness and an inability to cope on her own, and ultimately married him. On the happiest day of his life, she knew she'd made a mistake. Even now, the worry is missing out on children, financial security and loneliness. If he was my son I don't think I'd have a particularly high opinion of op.

Op, nothing matters really except that you are very unhappy and deserve better. So does he. Do the right thing and decisively call it a day before you drag a baby into it.

I think you may also be struggling with the difference between what your relationship should be like on paper, and the day to day lived reality. The grief when you separated before is for the how it could have been, not how it was. Plus, if I recall correctly, he used a lot of emotional manipulation about how he was suffering (yet called you emotionally needy!) when you separated. He was only suffering because he feeds off you, sapping your energy and independence bit by bit, and you had withdrawn his supply.

It is very hard to leave, but the way I saw it was that leaving is a process. It is the bit of you which wants your own life growing stronger. Individual counselling is imperative, with someone who understands domestic abuse and will empower you to recognise it and give you the tools to assert yourself (and build your own life). The world is full of possibilities, if you are in a position to see them. But first you need to unwind the web you are caught in.

Try this. When he provokes you (by not calling or whatever to start a row), do not respond. Practice breathing into your stomach and observing his behaviour in a detached manner. Watch what he is doing to get a reaction from you, to make you upset, and start a (secret) journal. Match the behaviour to the chart I linked to, and in the books. If you recognise it, it is the first step to unpicking the web around you. The thing about him wanting to forget about arguments is also a means of control, it leaves you in emotional turmoil (and supposedly ‘needy) whilst his behaviour goes unchecked.

Women’s Aid are also good, they will speak to you in confidence, they will provide support and help you understand what has happened. I personally think the only solution is to leave and block all contact (before you have children), but WA will support you whatever you do, and I also know from experience that leaving can take many attempts.

Sounds like you're going through a tough time op.
Now add the stress of a new baby into the mix with sleepless nights (pure torture) and the HUGE amount of pressure a pregnancy and birth will bring you both. Can you handle that? If you feel unloved now, just wait until a baby is born. There will be no time for you as a couple for months, possibly years.
I have every simpathy for you, and you genuinely sound like a lovely person, but if you purposely bring an innocent child into this volatile relationship, it would be totally selfish. All about you, no consideration for your child. That is not what being a good parent is about.

I'm not a LTB type of poster, but I really can't see a future for you with this man. You are not compatible.

A BABY WILL NOT HELP.
Please take the 'I need to have a baby before it's too late' out of your mind, and deal with this relationship once and for all.
I really do wish you luck, and hope things turn out well for you.

Wanting to have children, security and companionship are perfectly reasonable expectations of a marriage, though Rainy. The issue for OP here is the cost they come at.

You wanted to know if anyone has stayed in a difficult marriage and overcome things? I have with my dh.

I was emotionally stifled, bullied and had a low level emotionally / verbally / physically abusive upbringing. I had no safe place as a child, not at school or at home. I therefore hid as much as possible and lived in the fantasy world of books. Books, which gave me very odd messages about what love is and how life should be. I totally believed in the fairy tale fantasy of being rescued by Prince Charming for example.

Until I had therapy, I was a very emotionally needy person and had lots of abandonment issues. My father died when I was mid teens and he was the only one, who showed me anything, which even slightly ressembled unconditional love but he was a workaholic and hardly ever home. My mother and brother (who was vile to me and bullied me badly) were a team and I therefore had no concept of what unconditional love was until I sought therapy. My dh otoh had other issues to contend with growing up. But he was secure in the knowledge his parents loved him very much.

Your parents by the sound of it have stifled you emotionally as well. It doesn’t sound in any way deliberate. There may be other factors at play, but you’ve said very little about your childhood. The upshot is that you now recognise you have abandonment issues. As a result, it sounds as if you don’t know how to look after yourself emotionally. I, too was the same but my dh didn’t know how to handle it so he acted similarly to your dh. He shut down, wouldn’t talk, walked away, shouted, told me everything was my fault with my family, was unable to comfort me and so on. We both had quite a temper and shouted at eachother a lot.

I had therapy, enough to calm things between dh and me to make me more resilient and less needy. Therapy also made me see how we both contributed to the combative situation we’d set up and to understand dh couldn’t be what I needed, namely decent parenting. From this, we understood we really loved eachother, wanted to be together and to have a child. We then embarked on ivf and had a child together. Dh has actually made a great dad and was very supportive of me with the drugs and ensuing mood swings, difficult pregnancy and resulting chronic pain

However, the thing, which really changed how I feel about myself was getting long term, unbiased therapy. I saw a wonderful woman, who taught me how to look after my emotional needs. Some time into the therapy when she’d gained my trust, she gently told me I had many gaps in my knowledge of how to be an adult and she was here to help me learn them. And she did. Seeing her has definitely made me a much better parent because her therapy sort of “brought me up” from a small child into a fully fledged adult. I could then teach these skills to my dd.

I’m now disabled and very ill at the moment, awaiting a hysterectomy as my uterus is poisoning me. I have been really ill for about 7 years now but not well for much longer. I was completely well when we married and my dh has been very supportive of me. At first he was very much in denial and it definitely took time for him to accept my illness.

Somehow along the way, my therapy has helped us both. Dh and I work so much better as a team. Now we don’t fight that much even though I’m really ill, which is causing a lot of stress especially as we have a demanding 9 yo dd with a strong personality like ours added into the mix.

Obviously my dh is very different from your dh. Some people can handle others emotional neediness. Others can’t. It sounds as if yours definitely can’t. Your dh is also quite volatile. I can’t tell you whether or not you should stay married. Others have expressed concern that your dh wants to look after you and that is a sign of an abusive personality. When and how was it said? My dh could say that to me now for example and I’d know it was truly meant because he loves and cares for me and is deeply worried about me. But yours could equally have said it as a means of control.

Bottom line, you’re aware of your issues. Right now you’ve had counselling both individual and couples. It failed not because of you. But because of the people you saw. They were not equipped to deal with your complex needs. I speak from experience on this one, having seen many different counsellors, therapists and a couple of clinical psychologists over the years. You need someone, who’s had a lot of training, is your intellectual equal and does not ever tell you what to do or force you to make a decision before you are ready.

The best thing you can do is start your therapy / counselling as soon as you are able. If you’re not sure about the person you’re seeing, perhaps use mumsnet as a sounding board. I would definitely advise you against speaking to your cousin. She’s also not equipped to deal with your issues as many others have pointed out.

Oh OP I'm sorry.

This sounds very much like my first marriage, the difference is that I was very young.
spoiler alert if you stay he will get worse, all the signs are there.

He's worse since you got married and there is a huge amount of evidence to show that abuse escalates when a woman is pregnant.
Your cousin is so very wrong, having a baby turns the cracks in any relationship into chasms. It won't bring you closer together.

You say you're too old to have children with someone else.
How old is too old? On another thread I'm on there is mention of a woman who is having a baby at 50.

You also say that when you broke up before it was like grieving. It is grieving, but it does pass.

Counselling could help with your grief and your self esteem.

Not wanting to look at your wedding photos is a visceral gut reaction, your gut is saying 'no'.

I know this is not what you want to hear - and I do understand that - but you have to leave, the sooner the better.

I come from a conservative family too. They will come round to the idea, especially if you can be honest with them about what's been going on. They may be conservative but they still want you to be happy.

There is good news.
A year after I left my first 'D'H I met a man who was loving and decent and kind.
16 months after that we were married and we've been together for years, our DCs are adults now.

There is life and a good one after a bad marriage but - and again I'm sorry - you have to rip off the band aid and get out before this escalates.

Ok you seem too need him.
Since you said your the one that goes back, so maybe you need to approach this in a different way.
Explain an argument you have with him, so we can see why you argue...
If your the one who keeps the arguement alive use the #I need the loo # to break for a few.mins to have a quick think.

What shitty advice from your cousin. Do take have children? Yes lack of sleep, money, sex and an imbalance in the relationship really helps a couple already having issues get closer. What a load of shit.

Do you want to live the rest of your life like this? Do you want a child growing up thinking this is what a normal relationship looks like?

I’m sorry but sod what your parents and friends think about it, they’re not the ones living your life. Yes in an ideal world you wouldn’t have got married but you did and if you’re looking for permission to end the marriage, don’t. You don’t need anyone else to tell you it’s ok.

Is being single really that bad? You get to make all the decisions about what you do, dont have to tiptoe around someone, watch what you want, eat biscuits in bed - ok the last two are flippant but I really think you need to get some counselling for you not about relationships current or future.

Hi OP,
My story is a bit like yours, but ends like expatka's.
I left my husband just over 18 months ago. I'd tried to split up twice before we married. It was, at it's heart, a very unhealthy relationship. There were power inequalities and struggles. The first 6-12 months I found being alone hard and my H pursued me, writing regularly, with gifts, weight loss and flying monkeys. We married at haste due to church reasons.

But actually it's my church that have been the greatest source of support. Because they love me. They couldn't see inside before - everyone can give poor advice when they don't have all the facts. Initially being alone was hard - I'm quite significantly disabled and so I am working as many hours as I can, struggling and fair bit for money, the house is a tip.

But emotionally I have done what I could never do whilst the cyclical nature of an unhealthy relationship (I'm not going to use the word abuse because you haven't) means it's very difficult to change yourself within it, where you are trapped into unhealthy communication and behaviours.

He's met someone else of course and I need some time single. I might never meet anyone else - who will want a disabled 30-something with a terrible relationship history - but I'm at peace with that.

Is it a joint mortgage that makes you feel you have nowhere to go? Could you afford to go and see a solicitor to work out what you could do next? You can do this - being childless but emotionally well is honestly better than having children condemned to repeat the same cycles, hard as it is (and has been) to let that go. Wishing you all the best

I think it's great you're going for therapy. Don't be afraid to try a few therapists to find the one you really click with.

I don't know if your H is abusive or not, and I think Mummyoflittledragon's story is an interesting counterpoint.

You're not ready to make a decision yet. You have some things to figure out. Don't get pregnant as a way of sidestepping this.

Purely on the topic of divorcing after a short marriage/what will my conservative parents think, honestly, I've faced those down and it's not as bad as it seems now. Someone else's marriage breakdown is a mildly interesting piece of gossip and that's it. With regards to my parents, yes, it made our relationship uncomfortable for a while - lots of recriminations, not so much for the divorce as for getting into the wrong relationship. But I rode it out and it passed. Honestly, if you do end up divorcing, the discomfort will pass.

Thanks to all of you for your advice and thoughts so far...I've been reading everything you all wrote carefully and when I went to sleep last night, my head hurt from thinking...

I'll just assure you all that I'm not going to get pregnant until the relationship is in a better position. Also, it's a tricky enough situation. If he was an out-and-out a**hole, I'm sure I would have left for good years ago but that's the problem. He really has a good heart. He cares about me and other people, he's resilient, he's active and I know he would never stop working...my parents really like him and he doesn't judge them. He seems to see the best in them.

Just to give you all a bit of backstory, the first three break-ups were by me and they had a lot to do with his money mismanagement and his temper. Each time he begged me back. I never went back off my own bat those times. As my therapist at the time said, he 'emotionally bulldozed' me. The problem was I was having minor problems with my mother at the time (she put me in an awkward position) and there was no-one to talk to. I did feel like I needed him and I still do. It was easy for the therapist to urge me to leave (albeit in her own subtle therapist way but her message was loud and clear). Unfortunately, I went back and then I simply stopped going to therapy. I do regret going back that time because it took months of therapy to get me to leave. I was always prioritising his feelings over my own and the primary reason I was able to leave is because I wanted children and I could never subject children to the shouting etc I put up with myself as a child.

Don't worry, I'm not going to bring a child in unless we can sort through our difficulties.

The interesting thing about my H is that he told me he's only angry because of me. He said I bring out this temper. His ex was a complete doormat (which is why I think he ended it with her) so maybe he thinks women could be 'milder' than I am, who knows..she's never come up in that context but I do wonder. Yet in the past, I've seen him curse and shout at his mother (only once and I urged him to apologise and he did), he told me he made two female colleagues cry when he shouted at them and a colleague of his said it to me herself. She put it very simply. She said, 'he's a nice guy but he's got a temper.' So, I don't think it's the fault of the dysfunctional relationship. I do think there is an anger-management problem but his entire family, apart from his mother, has it so it's very much the norm for him. He hated couples' therapy and doesn't have an emotional vocabulary at all; so it's not as simple as saying 'he should go for counselling.' My cousin (who you all love :-) thinks he'd need longterm psychotherapy to get to the root of his problems but she knows he'd never do it.

Anyhow, when I got back with him this recent time, it was actually my cousin who suggested we get back together. And I know, it sounds like she gives awful advice but she witnessed how isolated and lonely I was. My anxiety was going through the roof and the next step was medication. I wasn't sleeping and my thoughts were getting darker by the day. My parents are emotionally available in the extreme. Someone suggested telling my mother about the trouble in my marriage and that she probably already knows. That post actually brought me to tears as it implies an understanding and closeness that simply isn't there. I love my mother but my sisters have serious issues with her. They think I'm the soft one and in many ways I am. My original therapist tried to make it all about my mother but I don't want to go down that road. She did and does her best but her only way of dealing with things is to bury all emotion.

So, I went back to him because my cousin, in her rational way, suggested that maybe it would be a better option than being single in my 40s and 50s....I know it sounds crazy but in fairness, I do have my own mind, or at least I should...so it was my decision but it was difficult from the start. He did some horrible things and let me down but even when I was back one month, I felt I couldn't get out. It was terrible timing as my landlord decided to sell up at the time and I simply couldn't find another accommodation that I could afford...so I moved back in with him and he did act like I owed him something. He also made me feel most unwelcome and kept mentioning how his routine had been disrupted. I asked him many times if he was sure he wanted to get back together and he said he loved me and always would etc. He rarely tells me he loves me but he did say it then.

Someone asked what we argue about...gosh, it could be anything. I work as a chef so I work a lot of weekends and my days off are usually midweek. Just the other morning, he started talking on the phone while I was having a much-needed lie-in. I simply calmly said his name and asked him to stop. He flipped out and shouted at me. Then, oftentimes, the shoe is on the other foot..if I as much as blink in bed, he flips out. So, I try very hard to facilitate him and he doesn't try to facilitate me. I even told our couples' therapist this and he somehow managed to twist things around that she was ultimately sympathising with him..

Anyhow, I chose to let that one go the other morning. Then he told someone I'd do something for them when I had specifically said to him beforehand that I couldn't. When I pointed this out, he flipped out again and said, 'that's fine, just take care of yourself.' I can see what he's doing there and I'm not stupid. I explained calmly what he was doing and he said, 'okay, I'm sorry.' Y'know that song, 'sorry seems to be the hardest word?' Well, with my H 'sorry' is the easiest word and it's utterly meaningless at this stage.

So, I let all that go the other morning and things were fine then...we could most likely have a fine life together if I just let everything go...but I see my close friends' relationships and my cousin's (she's married with kids and they are all very happy) and I envy what they have. I can't imagine being with someone who just listened carefully, attended to my needs and didn't shout at me...BUT, they may not measure up to my H in other ways. He's not the big bad wolf. He does have some great traits. He's proactive, he doesn't dwell and he keeps himself busy.

Thanks for reading. I've made an appointment with a therapist but he's not available for a few weeks so I'll have to ride this out until then. At this stage, I'm actually really looking forward to the therapy session...I never thought a therapy session would be what I'd look forward to but I'm beginning to think I'll need more than a few sessions.

Btw, when we broke up the last time, I saw a therapist for 6 months (no wonder I can't afford to buy a house!) and I still ended up going back....granted, I don't think she was near as good as the original one I went to.

Thanks for reading. I do appreciate your input. I've always been more comfortable helping others than being helped but I must admit, it's good to let all of this out.

P.S. Mummyoflittledragon, thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm so glad to hear things worked out for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with your illness but am so happy to hear you have the support of your husband.

You asked about the line, 'I want to take care of you.' Unfortunately, that, like many lines, was used to get me back when we were apart. That really pulled me in as I have some health issues and felt so supported.

Thanks again for sharing and I truly hope things work out for the best for you.

Correction: my parents are emotionally UNavailable.

The interesting thing about my H is that he told me he's only angry because of me

This bit tells me that there's very little hope for your marriage, because he clearly has no intention of changing.

Glad you're so firm that you won't be bringing a child into this.

From your description of him, especially when you're doing your best to paint him in a positive light, I don't think you love this man (whatever love means, as Prince Charles once pointed out). You're clinging to him in a panic because the alternative looks so much worse. If you let yourself ride out the initial panic, I think you'd find that it's not worse at all.

Bibliomania is correct. In your list of positives about your DH He really has a good heart. He cares about me and other people, he's resilient, he's active and I know he would never stop working...my parents really like him and he doesn't judge them. He seems to see the best in them. There is no mention of love. Are being caring, resilient, active and hard working really enough to make a marriage work? Frankly it's irrelevant if your parents like him or not.

I think you will put up with anything rather than live alone but I can assure you its infinitely preferable to what you have now.

Reiterating what I said before, your cousin is an IDIOT please do not follow their advice.

Please read back what you’ve written. Imagine a friend telling you this about their marriage. Imagine your son or daughter telling you. What would you say to them?

I’m sorry, the more you write the worse it seems. He isn’t going to change, he doesn’t want to and more importantly first feel he needs to.

He might, on the surface, be a really great guy, doesn’t mean you need to stay married to him. Doesn’t mean he’s necessarily the right man for you.

Get out now for both of you.