Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Only two months married and miserable...

753 replies

Slundle · 07/06/2018 16:58

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

  • Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
  • Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
  • Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

OP posts:
Slundle · 10/06/2018 14:00

Yes I've looked at this www.cheshirewithoutabuse.org.uk/cycle-of-domestic-abuse

It's basically my relationship & it's the pattern it has always followed ... except importantly the abuse is not physical. My H was angry with a woman in a pub once & he told me afterwards he was so angry that he really wanted to hit her ... that's kind of frightening i suppose...I know he wouldn't have (I hope). When I told him as much, he got extremely angry with me ...

As I said though, it's not simple. I haven't seen him for a few days, he was lovely on the phone & I'm actually looking forward to seeing him again. It's so true about the complete change of personality ... we'll see. I know this must seem clear-cut to ye but it's not so simple when you're in it. Thanks.

OP posts:
KataraJean · 10/06/2018 14:48

I know it is not so simple when you are in it. I recognise it because I was in it though.

As someone said upthread, the abuse is not physical because he does not have to hit you for it to work. Coercive control is usually not physical, it relies on his intimate knowledge of what makes you personally toe the line and put up with the abuse. You need to change/switch off your reactions (the responses which make controlling you work for him), which therapy will help with.

I made the mistake of getting married, it took me another two years after that to leave, there were children involved so matters ended up in court because he used contact to continue the control. So I know it is not easy. But on the other hand, not being married any more, and having boundaries in place, even if a court had to put them there, is so very much more simple. My house, my life, is so much more peaceful.

All the best Flowers

Slundle · 10/06/2018 18:31

@KataraJean I'm sorry to hear you had such a tough time of it. It must've been challenging going through the court system. Good on you for changing your story. Thanks for the message.

OP posts:
Twillow · 10/06/2018 18:45

Hi.
Rocky road to start.
Counselling before marriage - both disliked counsellor who seemed unsure why we wanted to be together.
Counselling many many years later., over same issues. Completely worn down person by then.
No-one else knew what went on behind closed doors.
Finally left. No-one else involved on either side.

Don't make my mistakes.

Slundle · 10/06/2018 19:24

Thanks Twillow...

OP posts:
Twillow · 10/06/2018 19:38

Arghhh Slundle I had to post again, I only replied to your initial post but now I've back read a bit (not all).
Loving someone isn't always enough. It causes you to say things like "He's not all bad". Well duh - it would be easy then, wouldn't it? Try talking to yourself about what you are prepared to accept, what if the tantrums don't stop (if they haven't yet, unlikely), how many unacknowledged birthdays you're willing to go through.
What you've been through in the past with him and perhaps in your childhood have likely led you to feel unworthy of good things deep down. You possibly rationalise this by saying to yourself you're a good person, you'll help him to get better. Ok now, it's not your job to offer unasked help, is it? And also, it's not working, so forget that idea.
Whenever you want to talk about the problems, he deflects it and criticises you.
It will slowly begin to get easier. Space is the key. While you're with him you cannot see clearly.

misskatamari · 10/06/2018 20:02

Ive no real advice but just wanted to say - you deserve so so much more OP. It's so sad reading your posts. Your husband should be someone who you can be totally yourself with, who you feel has got your back, loves you, is kind to you, wants to look after you, makes you happy. You say many times that you wish you hadn't gotten back with your dh after breaking up. I know you say you're not ready to leave, but please try to think about how you will feel if another 12 years go by - you will be saying the same, wishing you had left now.

When you boil it right down - you are not happy with him.

Please don't accept living this way. There is so much happiness out there. I know leaving seems hard, but it doesn't matter what other people think, if they judge you that's on them.

I really hope therapy can help you feel strong enough to leave and be alone for a while. You've been trying to make this relationship work for twelve years! It isn't working. If it isn't fixed now, it never will be. Your dh won't even engage in any discussion about this. Instead he shouts and is abusive. I really really hope you leave him, it's heartbreaking to read how unhappy you are, yet willing to put up with it.

YearOfYouRemember · 10/06/2018 20:13

You can not have a baby with someone who feel like this about. Doing so to please your parents and not have a child out of wedlock not to mention the fact you just want a baby, is selfish. I'm sorry but it is. A baby deserves two parents who love each other. And yeah yeah tyoulk get all the I hate my dc father but the kids are fine, he's fucked off anyway so it is fine etc etc but really, don't do it.

ShinySilverBeast · 10/06/2018 21:04

I'm close to tears having read all your posts and seen how much he has brainwashed and broken you. This is not a normal way to live, but I can understand how after your childhood you would think it was.

Respectfully, I don't think you fully understand abuse, and in particular coercive control. It's subtle and insidious. He might not tell you not to see your friends, but instead tell you things that make you doubt whether they're true friends, or tell you they hit on him, or start a fight when you were just about to go out, or make "exciting, romantic" plans that "accidentally" clash with plans to see friends.

You keep listing his good traits. You understand that abusers are not evil monsters, right? If they were monsters, who acted abysmally 100% of the time they would never be able to get close enough to anybody to abuse them. Charming everyone else in your life is how he protects himself - so they won't suspect and you won't feel they'll believe you so you keep it a secret.

He doesn't have anger management issues. That is an excuse. Abusers love the anger management excuse. "You drove me to it with your nagging"...

I second the recommendation for you to do the Freedom Programme. You will probably find it challenging as it will require you to face the truth about his behaviour, but in the long run it will help you.

When you describe the circumstances in which he shouts at you, I think about the rules of the game. He shouts to get you back in line. This works so he doesn't need to escalate to violence yet. Although I notice he mentioned wanting to hit somebody else. Bet that was frightening. Did it make you more compliant for a while? More hesitant to do anything that might make him shout?

This video is really short but it reflects your situation: m.youtube.com/watch?v=uN1HW5cwydA

As for him not being interested in changing. He doesn't need to. You've gone back to him 4 times after he deployed coercion and manipulation to drag you back. He now knows he can do whatever he likes and get away with it. I bet that's why he's even worse since the wedding - he knows you're tied to him.

Your cousin is dangerous. I was appalled that she suggested bringing a baby into this. I'm disgusted that she told you to go back to him. It's abhorrent.

As for the concerns about the baby. People aren't suggesting you don't know how to care for one. They are pointing out that a child growing up with an abusive father, who demeans and breaks down and bullies the child's mother so that she and the child are always walking on eggshells, is destructive and damaging.

I grew up in a home like that. It was horrific. I grew up into an adult who couldn't identify abuse, much like you, who thought it was normal to be treated that way, and ended up with my own abusive partner who terrorised me and broke me.

I saw also your shock at WA being suggested. It reminded me of my own shock when for the first time I confided in the shouting that had been going on in my home. Luckily it was to a therapist who was extremely clued up on the dynamics of abuse. She responded to me, "that's classic domestic violence".

I was horrified and convinced she was mistaken. I didn't believe it until I attended the Freedom Programme a few months later and could no longer run from the truth. It was like the FP was written about my abuser (although at that point I still felt sorry for him, blamed myself, and wouldn't have dared to call him abusive. It was much less painful to blame myself than accept that someone I thought loved me had been deliberately abusing me for all those years.)

There are not "two sides" to abuse. That is not how it works. It's about one party seeking to hold and maintain power and control over the other. It is impossible to provoke someone into abusing you. It is their independent choice.

When I say abuse I mean coercive control, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, financial abuse... I don't mean the use of abusive words (although obviously that would feature in the former). There is a massive difference.

Attila has given excellent and very perceptive advice that has been entirely spot on about CC and abuse generally. It is easier for us to see it because we are on the outside, and I expect several of us having gone through it ourselves have also had something of an education on the subject when we were trying to figure things out.

I am not surprised either that couples counselling went the way it did. Coercive controllers are experts at manipulation, and couples counselling is never recommended in an abusive relationship for the reasons you experienced. Far too few therapists are well enough trained in coercive control and the dynamics of abuse to recognise it. It's common for abusers to exploit that to get the therapist to rubber stamp their blaming of the other party. As happened to you.

Have you read the poem "he bought me flowers today"? I thought of it a few times when you described his behaviour after kicking off at you.

If you struggled before with only having friends in couples, have you tried expanding your circle? There are people living other lives. Joining an interest group is a good way to meet people. There's less pressure then, but you get to socialise people with a common interest so it's a bit easier.

You say he loves you. You say he's told you that. But somebody who loved you would never abuse you so extensively for so many years. He would not treat you like this if he loved you. He might love the idea of you belonging to him, but I don't think he can love you. I'm sorry.

It took me a year from first hearing the words domestic violence being applied to my life to actually leaving. I truly hope it doesn't take you as long as me, because your life does not have to be this way.

ShinySilverBeast · 10/06/2018 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Slundle · 10/06/2018 23:00

Thank you for your messages. I appreciate the time & thought you've given to my situation. I'm amazed that strangers on a forum are more perceptive than my own friends & family.

My mind keeps going back to the first therapist who slowly slowly convinced me to leave, I finally did & then I went back...he pulled out all the stops & I felt sorry for him. Look where I am now ... all is rosy today so I brought up our marriage & he just shrugged it off & changed the subject...

Anyhow, I'm heading in to a week of 12 hour shifts which might well be a good thing: keep the mind off things!

Thanks for all of your thoughts & insights. X

OP posts:
KataraJean · 11/06/2018 06:46

I have no contact with my ex at all, unless necessary information to do with the children at handover. It is one of the things I am absolutely firm about, for my own well-being. As I said, the boundaries are supported by a court order, because that was necessary. If and when you do leave again, you will need to be absolutely hard-headed, and block his phone number, and deal with matters through a lawyer.

I think it is fair to say that your birth family are not the best model for relationships, so they will not be perceptive, and I wonder how many of your friends know the details you have shared here. There is also another aspect if your friends are all coupled up - there is going to be an element of assuming your marriage functions like theirs (if theirs is okay), or not wanting to examine their own issues (if it is not). Do you have any friends who are single or divorced? Are your friends his friends?

Anyway, yes, work is good as it is something for you.

bibliomania · 11/06/2018 11:18

A mental game I played when I was trying to work out if my exH was really that bad - I imagined watching an episode of The Simpsons where Homer treated Marge like that. Now, nobody would say Homer is the dream husband, but can you imagine seeing him pulling the bedclothes off and screaming at her?

kidsneedfathers · 11/06/2018 15:19

Oh dear oh dear
IMHO the three main aspects of your ossues:
1- you prefer being married to him rather than being lonely
2-you feel needy (to have someone around you a lot) . Any inner turmoil?dilemma?
3- his feelings toward you and willingness to surround you with his presence are fine but his behavioral "style" is not helping your needs...
I will be blind and ask you some questions:
1- do you find him attractive?
2- would you have preferred to be with a more refined man?
3- are you a bit ashamed of him (his job /behavior /level of education etc)...
4- if none of the above apply : is he the kind of guy that is very bad with words and get angry when he can't express himself or hear you talk? Or is he just a violent macho- "i am here for you to protect you support you etc but you must do that and that for me..". If his verbal skills are not developed then maybe he and you can see a professional to improve them at least in your personal contacts. If he is a violent macho then consider strengtheing your inner self/surround yourself with friends and get away from him. About having kids: believe me many child-free people have a satisying life (as singles or married ).you can always volunteer a bit in schools to be in contact with kids or just be a great aunty...good luck

Slundle · 11/06/2018 19:50

@bibliomania wow that's a good game! Homer is quite the softie really, isn't he! Thanks

@kidsneedfathers...wow, good questions..indulge me in answering if you will...
1- you prefer being married to him rather than being lonely YES
2-you feel needy (to have someone around you a lot) . Any inner turmoil?dilemma? YES YES
3- his feelings toward you and willingness to surround you with his presence are fine but his behavioral "style" is not helping your needs...YES
I will be blind and ask you some questions:
1- do you find him attractive? A LITTLE
2- would you have preferred to be with a more refined man? A THOUSAND TIMES YES
3- are you a bit ashamed of him (his job /behavior /level of education etc)... A LITTLE, YES
4- if none of the above apply : is he the kind of guy that is very bad with words and get angry when he can't express himself or hear you talk? ABSOLUTELY. Or is he just a violent macho- "i am here for you to protect you support you etc but you must do that and that for me..". NO

OP posts:
Slundle · 11/06/2018 19:59

@KataraJean I have one friend who is single and none who are divorced..crazy eh? I wouldn't dare tell the one who is single about any of this because I think it would further break her belief in men. She thinks my H is one of the good ones, and while I do too to a point, I think she'd be a bit shocked at his carry-on.

My friends aren't his friends. We have quite separate friends now due to the break-ups. Things were much more enmeshed but they've grown ever more separate. I have to stress that he really doesn't control my friendships. He does say I make too much of an effort with friends (again his idea that I'm needy) but he never stands in the way of me hanging out with both male and female friends in any way, shape or form.

OP posts:
CheggarsPlaysPlop · 11/06/2018 21:02

Slundle I am currently having a horrific acrimonious split with my partner. He was exactly as PPs described. Very clever with his coercive control and his constant undermining of my confidence. He would twist my mind so that I doubted the loyalty of my friends (they were loyal to him!) and implied that they were untrustworthy and duplicitous. Every time I was myself (generous and kind and loyal) he belittled me and told me that people were using me. He suggested I spent too much time on friends who did not give back (like it was a bank that owed me) and made too much effort. A loving partner would encourage your happiness and friendships. I now know that my partner is a toxic, insecure, controlling, undermining, misogynistic energy vampire who exhausts me and my poor kids and goes under the guise of SuperDad and 'gorgeous loving partner' to all who see him superficially. This split is going to be extremely tough but I need to do it for my happiness and ability to be a decent mother and human being

Slundle · 12/06/2018 20:08

@CheggarsPlaysPlop I'm sorry to hear your relationship was like that. Congratulations for making the break. Although I'm sure it'll be tough, you're really admirable & the very best of luck to you.

@anyone else out there reading this.... Well, I had maybe one evening of things being 'okay' and last night things got back to 'normal!' We had a very late dinner & he took the food away from me towards the end saying 'you've had enough.' I stood up to him and said 'leave me alone.' When we were in bed and he knew I was exhausted and had an early start today, he started giving out to me for being 'so f-in disorganised' & that the house was 'an f-in mess'...this was unprovoked & I can see that. I was trying so hard to be nice. he was shouting. I don't blame him for having opinions but the delivery was just awful, especially in bed....not that it's new but I was so hyper-aware after writing & reading so much here; so I didn't stand for it. I said 'you can't shout at me like that.' He disagreed. I asked him calmly to sleep in the spare room & he did...

I'm not sure why I'm posting this here. Maybe I'm struggling to accept this situation might be, in fact, abusive even though I couldn't imagine my sisters or cousins' husbands ever being so harsh and nasty to them despite them having children & maybe more to fight about as a result. A colleague in work was asking for him & I just feel like no-one has a clue how disconnected & unreal my marriage has become.

Thanks for reading. I do appreciate you all adding your tuppenny's worth. I know it must seem frustrating to ye but I think if you saw it up close, it might be different...

OP posts:
AsleepAllDay · 12/06/2018 20:19

@Slundle he is emotionally abusive at the very least and more besides probably. He is trying to control how much food you have and constant criticism is also abusive. More of this is only going to wear you down and eat away all the confidence you have. He wants this, unfortunately, so you can be easier to control

I hope you have someone in your life you can talk to - sibling or friend or neighbour? Absolutely nobody's husband would or should treat them like this. It is not okay and it is not normal

Labradoodliedoodoo · 12/06/2018 20:28

Get some anxiety meds from the GP. Then once you’re feeling calmer make your mind up about your present living situation

Slundle · 12/06/2018 20:59

Thanks ladies ... I'm not sure who to talk to really ... the person I'm
Closest to is my cousin. I texted her & she's texted back but that's it. She said he needs to accept how serious this is. Not even a phone call though ...as for friends, It's just too much ... I feel like a fool after all the break-ups. I told a friend about the shouting in the past & when I broke up with him, she felt sorry for him!

I think counselling is my best bet & I'll take it from there ... I know I'm pinning too much on counselling. I just genuinely feel like such an absolute fool. An longtime ex of mine who is married with kids & we have very little contact texted me today about an old friend. I thought 'gawd why couldn't I have married someone like him.'

Anyhow, thanks & sorry if I'm boring ye. I know people deal with much worse than this.

OP posts:
Dragongirl10 · 12/06/2018 21:38

Op having read the whole thread, it seems to me you need to grow into your age! Why are you so worried what others will think? Good friends will support you and the rest of the world is irrelevant, toughen up!

STOP thinking about what your parents may think, you are an adult you do not need their permission. Explain your feelings once, the rest is up to them.

STOP protecting this abusive behavior, tell people, why are you embarrased its not you behaving aggresively.

STOP expecting a counsellor to fix this they won't. Use your money for more important things ie a home for YOU.

STOP making excuses for him,.Stop thinking you can fix him, you cannot.

STOP comparing a single life to your friends married lives, if you leave you can study, work more, retrain, take up new hobbies and make new friends more on your wavelength.

Start looking objectively at this relationship, if it was your best friend what would you want her to do, stay or go?

Start thinking about your boundaries, and the way you deserve to be treated.

Start looking at how you want your life to look in 5 years.

Start focussing on making the changes you want.

It seems to me you need to stop being a mouse and be more of a lion!

KataraJean · 12/06/2018 21:58

Well, the spare room is the right place for him. I would not even remove a plate from one of my children. As for the house being a mess, late at night was not the time to discuss and even if it was a mess, then at some point today, he could have tidied it. You are doing 12 hour shifts.

Good for standing up to him, of course you should not have to, but well done for that. He has no right to behave like that to you.

There used to be a support thread for people in emotionally abusive relationships but it has not run for a while. It probably would be helpful for you to have somewhere to get support and feedback where people will actually listen to what you are saying.

KataraJean · 12/06/2018 21:59

Plus what Dragongirl said!

Itscurtainsforyou · 12/06/2018 23:15

Op I can't believe he took your plate away - who the fuck does he think he is?? This is emotional abuse, no question.

Please please gather the strength to leave him. It's ok to leave, you don't need anyone else's permission, you don't deserve to live like this.