Separate budgets not working - even thinking about divorce

[silverturtle]

Please talk me out of petitioning for divorce first thing tomorrow.

I have two pre-school children with DH, currently expecting our third.
We both have great jobs and rewarding careers. Our salaries are roughly the same (or at least should be).

The problem is, I am financially responsible for everything and DH just does not seem to care. It evolved this way naturally since our dating / bf-gf times, when we kept our finances separate. Then we bought our house, and it just happened that the payment was set up from my account; DH initially had a standing order of 50% into my account, but then he changed the bank, we re-mortgaged, and at that time I thought it was churlish to remind him, as we were already married, had DS and intended to live happily ever after. Then I set up all the utilities, and naturally they came from my account too... then I returned to work and felt that paying for the childcare is my responsibility. Then the house got unbelievably filthy with a small baby and two working parents and I had to find a cleaner. Then got pregnant with number two... rinse, repeat.

At the moment, despite earning a very good salary, I am just making ends meet, and am often overdrawn on the day before the payday. I am paying childcare fees x2, mortgage, gas, electricity, groceries, council tax, domestic help and, of course, all personal expenses. DH pays the water bill (for historical reasons) and for his own car.

I raised this topic, probably, a thousand times. At best, I get asked how far I am in the red and receive a one-off transfer to tide me over; at worst, there are suggestions on how to save money and run the house in a better, more efficient, way.

DH has just left for his brother's destination wedding. Alone. We received the invitation a couple of months ago, and I calmly explained that I won't be able to afford even the flight cost (around £700 per person), never mind other expenses, because THAT is how much I earn and THIS is how much I spend every month. And until today I hoped that there will be some sort of a last minute surprise... but, sadly, no.

Please tell me that I am just stupid, hormonal, greedy and totally overreacting.

Look he's not thick - he knows exactly what the situation is and this is how he wants things to be. There is no conversation to be had anymore us there? Other than when are you moving out?

Op I think you have be massively underplaying this and I understand completely why. You are in a dreadful relationship. It beggars belief your h would treat you this way. But he is.

I hope he had loads of savings you can get a good chunk off when you divorce him. You need a SHL and quick.

if has a lot of savings then OP is going to be allowed half if them, assuming someone can trace those savings...

He's a cocklodger
It's scary how you have encouraged him to be like this though.
Why go ahead and pay for it all without discussing financial management?
it sounds like the pair of you don't communicate.

I know we read about ex’s doing it all the time, but I can’t believe a man who lives with his children would absolve himself of all financial responsibility towards them. What kind of man just refuses to provide for them while presumably claiming to be a family man and telling them he loves them? That’s shameful. As well as having no respect for you, he has no respect for them, and no self respect!

While he’s gone, search and find copies of bank statements showing how much he has saved. Speak to a solicitor about freezing his assets. You don’t want him transferring it all offshore.

This smells of another family tbh.

Tell him you need one of his tide-you-over transfers now. Hopefully he'll be feeling a bit of guilt about the wedding (or at least not want you to kick up a fuss) so he'll do it.

Use the time when he's away to properly investigate ANYTHING you can find at home about his financial situation, and use the transfer money to hire a good solicitor asap who will be able to advise you. Even if you do want to stay with him after all this (and yes, I think it's financial abuse, but I'm also expecting a third DC in a non ideal marriage so do sympathise and appreciate it could be hard to leave), at least you will have a better idea of where you stand and what you would get if you split. Once he hears this he may suddenly become more generous...

Also, have you ever discussed this with your or his family or any friends? They will guaranteed be horrified, so can provide moral support to you and some shame to him too.

50% of everything from now on, paid into a new joint account that you both pay equally into, No discussion, no arguing, plus he can pay you back extra month by month until he’s paid back his share from previous months too. Otherwise divorce, and you have copious evidence you’ve paid for everything so will be gunning for all the equity in the house too.

Please get real life emotional and physical support and make plans to leave him.
This brings back horrible memories of my first marriage in the early 80’s. I didn’t know it was called emotional and financial abuse then, but it certainly was and is so in your case also.
My first husband assumed all control of finance, housing, bills etc and occasionally gave me money for food shopping. I had no access to “family” money and had no job as we had a baby and a toddler by the time it dawned on me that this was how my life was going to be in this marriage.
Whilst he led the life of a rich businessman ( although really forever in the red and getting utilities cut off due to non payment) I regularly only had 20p in my purse. Any attempt I made to leave or try to discuss money led to me being told I wouldn’t get custody as he “had evidence” I was mentally unstable!
If there had been mumsnet at that time you would all have told me to leave. As it was, after 5 years I left with the help of good friends one day when he was away at work. With whatever we could carry between us. It was horrendously difficult at the time but the best decision I could have made.
I really can empathise with you, he used to do things just for himself too, just as your husband is doing by going on his own to a wedding.
I wish you all the best with whatever you do next.

Does he pay for his own clothes or does his mum buy them? Like my dp, but mine pays all the bills as I'm a SAHM.

I can't believe he's gone and left you to go to this wedding. As others have said, gather everything while he's gone. I wouldn't be giving this man another chance - if he was worth anything this situation wouldn't have even happened

You’re right to petition for divorce, no talking you out of it required.

Wow, I am overwhelmed by all the responses. Thank you! Just wanted to go public (well, anonymously) about how I feel right now, because I know tomorrow I will be finding excuses for him, as always. Once other people know, there is no way back lol.

I am not a troll :) It's Sunday night and English is not my first language.

Answering in no particular order.

I would be able to afford a third child even on my own - my maternity pay is at 100% for 12 months if I choose to take it, and I am lucky in that I work in the digital economy, so worked part-time remotely with both children pretty much since their birth. It would be tight for the first couple of years, but not below the poverty line. This pregnancy was unexpected, but not unwelcome, and I did think hard about whether to keep it or not.

I do love him. He was and, to be honest, remains well out of my league on pretty much everything. I guess, for the first few years I was too keen to be perceived as equal, including money matters. Then somehow just got sucked into all this.

I don't know what he will tell his family about my absence. I know that the invitation was for two, but I don't know what he RSVP'd at that time.

I also don't know precisely what he spends his money on. I know he is supporting financially his mother - his family was once very well off, but then fell on hard times and ended up on welfare, which my mil has difficulties adjusting to. Apart from that, he likes to splash out money on things (not only for himself, gifts from him for the children's birthdays are ridiculously expensive). Otherwise no idea.

And, as I said, I tried to sit down and talk through the spreadsheet of expenses. Many times. The replies fall into several categories:
[Agreeable] OK, just tell me much do you owe in bills right now? Let's watch a film instead of making a scene. I answer £xxx, receive a transfer next day, that's it.

[Confrontational]Are you SERIOUSLY nagging me now for an hour for £100 / £50 / whatever? OK, I'll write a cheque for you tomorrow (here I start feeling really low, as a proper cheapskate, and tomorrow never comes).

[Evasive]Of course, we need to discuss it properly, but ask yourself why does it matter who pays what, it's a question of the left pocket or the right pocket, we are in it together, it is a matter of trust for me etc etc.

What is weird, is that if he was employed in a poorly paid job, genuinely unable to contribute significantly, I would have accepted that. It is the fact that he can, but simply chooses not to, bugs me.

So say ‘yeah, you’re right, I can’t fucking believe I have to nag you for £100 for an hour when we’re in it together, so I’ve worked out what your monthly contribution should be via moneysavingexpert spreadsheet / nyab / whatever, you owe me £2367.84 every month, sort out a direct debit for that month on this date every month so we never have to go through this again.’

If you don’t for whatever reason think that’s ever going to be possible, ltb. That’s maybe my first ltb! You sound lovely, if a bit mental for paying for everything. He sounds like a dick.

I think you've found now you've started talking about it, you won't be excusing him tomorrow OP. The tide will start to shift and you'll realise you're not interested in putting up with this anymore.

The lids off and you won't be able to make it fit back on before all that resentment inside of you blows.

Good luck.

*he remains well out of my league on pretty much everything"

You daft bint. No he's not out of your league. He's your husband.

I did wonder if there were cultural issues here because as you will have seen from the fairly unanimous LTB votes, your position is simply not comprehensible to most of us.

Be fair to yourself and develop a spine - you live here now and you are not being treated fairly.

gifts from him for the children's birthdays are ridiculously expensive

Can you explain? Do you buy separate gifts for the children?? Or is that something he actually pays for for both of you?

token man here :)

Your husband is a twat and he knows exactly what he is doing and what he can get away with. Whatever he says to his family about your non-appearance at the wedding, it won't be the truth.

I doubt very much that he will change.

Try to look into the future. Picture your life with him and then picture your life without him. Which of one those is the most scary? Which one of those provides you with the most potential for happiness?

If you want to stay with him (and I wouldn't) then I'd recommend either setting up a joint account for all household expenses, into which you both pay a fair share, or that he sets up a monthly transfer of his share into your bank account.

But there's still all the money he must owe you for all the bills you've already paid.

I'm horrified to be honest. I'd be seeing a lawyer while he's away, and working out what money you can recoup from him, and what money you'll be entitled to from him post divorce.

He isn't out of your league...you're clearly extremely capable & too kind for your own good!

Stop being grateful, own your space & the things you deserve. This isn't right at all.

I do love him. He was and, to be honest, remains well out of my league on pretty much everything.

So you're paying him to be your husband?

You are leagues above him, OP. You're generous, selfless, and responsible. He's an evasive, guilt-tripping, narcissistic tightwad.

Please use this time apart to process these feelings and see how life without him really feels. I bet it's nicer than you expect. If he's that bad about money, I bet he's actually an arse about other stuff too.

Please be aware of the cultural issues that clearly exist here - the OP views her husband as being tremendous - we on MN see clearly that he is not - he's a user and a financial abuser - but still it is likely going to be next to impossible for her to leave.

This is a really difficult situation and my heart goes out to the OP. Do you have family OP that you can count on to support you? Is it possible that your family will side with your DH? Can you imagine a future without your DH?

A normal response to the wedding invite would have been, "can you buy the tickets. I can't afford it at the moment". Not to say you can't go because you haven't got the money for your ticket

As for the rest of it ...... words fail me.

Two years ago I could almost have written your post. The only difference is that my other half was self employed and although there was plenty of work to be had he chose to have countless days off for his hobby safe in the knowledge that I would try to make ends meet and give the children stability. All the bills and mortgage came out of my account and depending on how often he worked he may or may not give me housekeeping. It was incredibly difficult to budget. The financial reality of that meant reduced yellow sticker food, charity shop clothes and family camping holidays whilst he always seemed to have enough for an annual ‘boys holiday’ and his hobby. For years I never had a problem because I thought we were a team. God knows why because looking back he was always a selfish manchild. But eventually the resentment came as the love and respect disappeared. As pp have said, you may not be any worse off financially if you go it alone and in the end that is what decided it for me. It’s taken a long time but I’m about to move into my own much smaller place with my children but I couldn’t be happier. Although I will still have to be extremely careful with finances I no longer have the seething resentment that comes with living with an entitled, selfish user. I feel for you op because I consider myself fairly switched on as I’m sure you are and yet you wake up one day and realise that for years you have allowed yourself to be financially abused. Do you still respect and love him? Ask yourself will you miss him while he’s away and will you look forward to him coming home? What does he bring to your life that you couldn’t cope with on your own? You can change things and you deserve so much better.

Thesearepearls
No, definitely not cultural, even counter-cultural for me to a certain extent. DH's cultural background is as upper-middle-class English as it can be. Unless Yorkshire has some secret matrimonial traditions :)

SingleDingle
We buy gifts separately (for Christmas and birthdays). We could never agree on the approach on this particular topic - he supports full-on spoiling, I am more reserved. To be fair, I get obscenely expensive gifts from him as well.

We have a good personal compatibility in everything else, and a quite functional parenting relationship too. This asymmetry in our financial responsibilities was not such a massive issue before. Of course, I was not happy about it, but in the end I'd pay anyway and everything seemed to return back to normal. I guess it was the first time today that the reality slapped me hard in the face - when I genuinely could not afford something, explained it, and he just chose to ignore it. What if it wasn't a family occasion, but a real "for poorer" turn of events? I don't know now.

Hope I don't come across as a complete idiot.