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Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 04/06/2018 08:04

I always offer cups of tea/coffee to adults. Not usually food (we don’t have cupboards stuffed with food because the kids eat it). My kids are teens now and help themselves & I expect them to offer food to visiting friends if they’re hungry.

When younger I may have been cautious about offering a young child food without checking with their parent first as so many are fussy about what their kids eat. I can’t really remember.

Thespringsthething · 04/06/2018 08:08

I go to people's houses at least once or twice a week socially, and also with work on occasions, and have never ever not been offered a drink in the UK. I always offer visiting children a drink and a snack after school, or food if after 5/check with parents, and my children go to other people's houses weekly and again, sharing food has always been the norm.

You have two instances, I have hundreds. It just doesn't add up to me.

There is definitely a culture of presenting food and alcohol in my husband's culture (not British). For the most part it's enjoyable, except they don't understand not drinking alcohol which I don't, and my husband rarely does, and so there is a giant performance associated with that and we have been known to hide it/try to get rid of it. Refusing it is considered rude, even if you don't actually drink! Food is usually presented, in quite large quantities, whether guests are hungry or not. Again, it's a different way. I don't find the people nicer as a result, it's just different conventions. I do say no to my in-laws though as I know them well and just can't always face their tapioca pudding they've made especially or whatever.

I do agree some cultures are more oriented around presenting food and drink as a sign of their generosity, but I wouldn't agree British people don't do that at all- as I say, I've drunk probably 1000's of cups of tea over the years.

blacklister · 04/06/2018 08:10

Haven't read the full thread, but why would you offer food if it's not a mealtime?

I'm southern. Everyone gets offered tea/coffee/soft drinks but I certainly don't have trays of snacks available for unexpected guests! But then I'm one of those Mnetters who finds unexpected guests rude so.....

If I've invited someone for a meal, they'll be well fed when they leave my home. I consider myself a generous host. But it's not hosting when someone just turns up unannounced is it.

I'd be mortified if I left my child with someone for two hours and they were desperate for snacks during that short time - I make sure they're well fed myself and I don't encourage snacking between meals. I'd expect them to be given a drink if they ask of course but mine always have a bottle of water in their bag anyway. If I was leaving them for a longer period, unless they'd been invited to eat I'd send them with their own snacks.

French2019 · 04/06/2018 08:10

I don't think you have come across well on this thread tbh, OP. You do sound very judgmental. I think you have a point that the hosting cultures are very different, but you are wrong to leap to the conclusion that people are unwelcoming just because they don't express the welcome in the way that you think fit. It's just a different way with different expectations.

I agree with the poster above who said that, when you find yourself caught between cultures, you should take the best bits of both. I think that's a great rule to live by.

MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 08:14

Have lived in the south east all my life and struggling to think of a single occasion where I haven't been offered a drink on arrival at someone's home. It definitely isn't true that this only happens in the north! Wouldn't necessarily offer food, though - we don't have things like biscuits or cake just in, so although I'd get some if a friend came for a planned coffee, I wouldn't have any for someone just popping round.

I also think you're sometimes misreading social cues. The woman who didn't get off her sun lounger didn't want you to stay at chat. I also suspect the bereaved family didn't want you to stay. A cup of tea (the standard offering) takes at least 15 minutes to drink, so people are inviting you to stay if they offer you one - if they don't, you're imposing yourself!

Also, if your child 'whines that they're hungry and thirsty' and you encourage that then, depending on their age, people might find you rude.

Devilishpyjamas · 04/06/2018 08:15

And yes clearly the cultures are very different, but one isn’t ‘right’. Just enjoy the differences.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 08:17

Devilish beat me to it. Plenty of people have said they don't like being offered a lot of food etc so who is to say one is right and another wrong.

JingsMahBucket · 04/06/2018 08:18

The woman who didn't get off her sun lounger didn't want you to stay at chat.

Then the woman could’ve just asked the OP to leave instead of ignoring her and avoiding talking as I pointed out earlier. This isn’t rocket science. It’s common courtesy to talk to people and discuss things, not be passive aggressive. 🙄

AsAProfessionalFekko · 04/06/2018 08:20

I’ve been force fed halva in some homes which is a bit like me playing Russian roulette with my sugar levels. It really is like battling Mrs Doyle (is ‘tea?’ - ‘no thanks, if I drink tea I could die’... ‘oh well I’ll just pour you a cup in case to change your mind’).

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 08:22

Margaret in most South Asian cultures there isn't a concept of not wanting guests to stay. Even if it's inconvenient people will never let it be known or hinted at. Unwanted or unexpected guests will be treated the same way as invited guests (even if you're cursing inside!)

As for snacks, they are bought in or made specially for unexpected guests. There is usually a stash of food kept aside or ingredients are available to prepare something very quickly.

Lifebeginner · 04/06/2018 08:24

This is an interesting thread as a non-white person with white relatives and a mix of friends from different backgrounds. I've definitely noticed a difference in approaches to hospitality within my own family and friends and in my experience friends from Middle Eastern and Asian backgrounds do go all out with serving guests as this is a big part of their culture - the guest is king! I have felt uncomfortable at times when food is pressed on you and you can't refuse, and I've left on many occasions feeling absolutely stuffed because food was literally piled on my plate even when I'd said I was done.

But on the other hand I have felt that my white relatives were a little bit on the other extreme, where I'd been there for hours and only offered water or a half-empty packet of biscuits for half a dozen people. I try to be somewhere in the middle: I will always offer people drinks and will place nibblies and snacks on the table but I don't pressure people to eat at all. There's definitely a balance to be struck in my view but I don't necessarily see either culture as worse for the way they do things.

Rainydaydog · 04/06/2018 08:28

I agree this post came across as racist. There is a difference and it is really about different cultures. You can't expect your culture to be respected if you don't respect other cultures. Modern British people don't have quite that tradition of hospitality some others do, as a pp said this is partly because many people are watching what they eat and don't appreciate food being more or less forced on them. But I don't think the examples in the OP are fair. I live in SE England and have never known a playdate where children where not offered a drink and some food, often treats. If someone comes to visit they would always be offered a drink and maybe food, but I don't think we would always offer something if someone comes to pick up or drop off from a playdate. I would expect them to want to get their child and go.
Southern people can also be a bit reserved with people we don't know very well. It just takes a bit longer for us to warm up to people. In some ways you might say this is sensible. Not everyone is someone you want to make a friend of. Plus we are independent sorts and like to do things our own way. Again there is good and bad in that attitude. Its not very community minded, but it means you protect yourself from unscrupulous people who would ask you to do too much for them.

French2019 · 04/06/2018 08:29

in most South Asian cultures there isn't a concept of not wanting guests to stay. Even if it's inconvenient people will never let it be known or hinted at. Unwanted or unexpected guests will be treated the same way as invited guests (even if you're cursing inside!)

Indeed! This has been one of the hardest things that I have had to learn since marrying a South Asian. Anybody is welcome at any time!

I have learnt to be gracious over the years, and I don't think anyone would fault my hospitality now. I do not show what I am feeling.

Truth be told, though, I actually hate hosting South Asian guests, however much I like them as individuals, because I feel that there is so much pressure to live up to their expectations. I prefer a more relaxed, informal approach to hosting on balance.

Lifebeginner · 04/06/2018 08:29

And yes, Asian and Middle Eastern families are generally never caught out in my experience with nothing to offer guests as they specifically keep things on hand for this very purpose - I've seen the bags of nuts in their cupboards! That's another indication of the importance of guests in the culture. I think Western culture is very much built on privacy and individual rights whereas Eastern cultures are more focused on the collective which is why the unexpected guest is annoying for one and not the other - just a difference in approach I've witnessed, both have their pros and cons.

funmummy48 · 04/06/2018 08:29

I'm working class and the "norm" amongst all my friends and family is to always offer tea/biscuits/cake or a meal to visitors. I do not recognise the unfriendly visits you have documented.

stuckforagoodnickname · 04/06/2018 08:30

When you go to a house where there's blank offering, it is unwelcoming.

But you're judging people based on your own cultural habits and expectations. It's only 'unwelcoming' in your culture. Every culture is different - why can't you just respect these differences?

If it's not the custom in some cultures to offer food, then it shouldn't be considered rude and unwelcoming when food isn't offered. As other pps have said, some people show generosity in other ways. Why are you expecting it to be your way, through food?

We shouldn't be 'generous' to others only when we receive the same back! You don't really come across as a nice person, OP, and you're not representing your culture very well. I'm Asian and your posts are reminding me of the things I really dislike about Asian culture, like being judgemental and looking down on others.

MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 08:32

Then the woman could’ve just asked the OP to leave instead of ignoring her and avoiding talking as I pointed out earlier. This isn’t rocket science. It’s common courtesy to talk to people and discuss things, not be passive aggressive. 🙄

But this is a cultural difference in itself? British people, by and large, don't tell people they're unwelcome, they show it by their behaviour. If my neighbour drops round to collect a parcel, for instance, I either offer her a cup of tea (which means 'please stay and chat') or I don't (which means, 'I don't want a visitor at the moment'). In our culture, if she goes and plonks herself down on the sofa and starts talking without being offered anything or asked to come in then she's the rude one. Which is no better or worse than another culture with very different etiquette around this.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 04/06/2018 08:32

I have see the other side - so after guests have been pushed cookies, petit fours, nuts, fruit, tea...(go on go on go on...) ‘did you see how greedy they were? Don’t they eat at home? She’s getting fat - no wonder!’

Costacoffeeplease · 04/06/2018 08:33

I find your post quite judgemental, racist and snobbish.

This^^ - and unpleasant

MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 08:34

As for snacks, they are bought in or made specially for unexpected guests. There is usually a stash of food kept aside or ingredients are available to prepare something very quickly.

And that's fine, and great if that's what you expect to do as the norm. But that's not what people do in my culture, so I think it's both demanding and rude to start expecting them to on your behalf purely because it's what you're used to.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 08:37

I always offer snacks and drinks to guests but I do feel intimidated by my South Asian guests even when it's dh's family.

This thread is the reason why. South Asian's do often judge each other for lack of hospitality, tidiness of the house etc.

There are things about South Asian culture that I prefer such as treatment of the elderly but I have to admit I hate the judgemental side.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 08:39

I agree with you Margaret

It's only rude if you offer nothing but expect lots in return. It's not rude if it's the norm.

formerbabe · 04/06/2018 08:45

My ds had a Sikh friend at school... we went over to their house. They were incredibly hospitable and generous.

I do think it's unusual for anyone of any culture, not to offer anything to eat or drink on a playdate. It's incredibly rude and actually quite despicable behaviour to not even offer a glass of water to a visiting child.

user1499173618 · 04/06/2018 08:49

These things are highly cultural. Personally I hate being plied with food outside meal times so find it very complicated when offered cake, snacks, cups of tea etc.

caoraich · 04/06/2018 08:55

Food is a basic instinct and everyone loves it.

This is a completely unreasonable sentiment. I'm from a mixed background but grew up in what I suppose you'd class as a "white British" cultural setting. Offers of water / drinks - Yes this is to be expected. But food on a 2hr play date or short visit? No. I'm not a big eater, never have been, and loathe the awkwardness of being offered food on short visits. At least a biscuit out of a packet is OK to say no to. Home baking they may have done just for you? So awkward to refuse!

I had a good friend when I was little whose parents were Sikh. I absolutely dreaded going to her house because of the food that would be foisted on me. Endless snacks, sweets and then hot food none of which I liked but because it was grown ups offering I felt very awkward saying no. At home I was being taught to try everything (I was a picky eater and allergic to a few things) and so I didn't presume to behave differently at another house. Inevitably this spoiled my appetite for my tea. My parents quite reasonably assumed I wouldnt have been fed a full on meal over 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon. Therefore proper at home mealtimes were ruined by me not being hungry and dissolving into tears. Of course my parents shouldn't have been grateful that someone else fed their kid and so spoiled their family meal time!

In the end my mum figured out that the biggest "I'm not huuuungry" tantrums came after a visit there and worked out what was going on. She asked them just not to feed me but then it became "our secret" and cakes and snacks would still be given when I visited. In the end I simply stopped going and the friendship fizzled out.