Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

[Rightgirlwrongplanet1]

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? )
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea ! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

"@weehedgehog so why not confirm snacks were fine as long as no sugar. Or confirm a limit to quantities . That way host can accommodate."

To be honest, OP, you've pretty much answered your own question with this post. You've talked about cultures which consider offering food to be a sign of love or hospitality. I'm aware of this, and this is precisely why it then becomes difficult to say "Please don't feed my child all this food"--I know all too well that in the context of this kind of culture, it's easy for this to come across as refusing people's kindness or hospitality and there is a worry that it is going to create bad feeling.

Food is a basic instinct and everyone loves it.

Of course not everyone loves it

The UK has an obesity crisis, people are generally trying to feed their kids healthier diets and limit their intake of food due to sedantry lifestyles. Surely a packet of sweets is plenty in two hours.

To me the give to receive thing is the opposite of generosity.

And being offered huge amounts of food that I don't want (ie when not visiting specifically for a meal) makes me uncomfortable, increasingly so when pressure is put on to just try a little or its served after I have declined and not want to visit again.

Racist

OP do your kids go to private school? Reason I ask is that my kids once went to a party at a child’s house. South east. Kids go to private school. White, upper middle class parents. Kids were pretty young at that time so parents were asked to stay. We weren’t even offered a drink! It was a boiling hot day and I was pregnant so I’m the end I had to ask for and then help myself to a glass of water before I passed out! I find the more wealthy white British are the rudest and tightest and less generous. Most of the state school play dates with normal families that my kids go to include an offer of snack and drink. You need to make friends with more normal people OP. Wealth doesn’t make manners these days.

I also agree with one of the posters above that constantly being offered and pressurised into trying home cooked food is incredibly off putting and feels a bit abusive sometimes. I once went to a Sikh house for a coffee in the morning. Coffee and a biscuit is more than plenty but there were home cooked curry type things and heavy home made sweet goods loaded with sugar and fat and the pressure was to try everything...at 10 in the morning! I don’t want to be eating at that time in the morning. It’s exhausting to socialise in that type of environment and incredibly over bearing I find. There are limits. I would always provide a selection of cakes and biscuits (store bought) at a coffee morning but I would not expect, cajole or pressurise my guests to eat. It’s the height of rudeness to do that in my opinion. It’s put me off going back to that persons house. You see your constant offerings of food at all times of the day as generous, I see it as overbearing. You can reign it in a bit!

You do sound very intolerant to other peoples ways but your own OP. You've explained how food is a way that your culture shows they care about one other but in my experience British culture is not that way, and that's perfectly acceptable. You snidely ask how do we show generosity if not through food and to be honest I find that really sad, sad because if the only way you know how to show generosity is through food then I'm glad I'm not part of your culture.

I show generosity through offering my time, which I consider the most valuable thing of all! I will help my neighbours in their garden, I will go shopping for them if they're unwell, I will go spend time with them and listen to their problems, I will go with them to appointments if they don't want to go alone, I will watch their children if they're in a fix, I will make phone calls for them if they feel they can't, I've volunteered for charities ... plus a whole host of other things. I don't cook for other people and I never offer tea (I don't drink tea or coffee so never have it in) - I offer water and that's about it but I'm pretty sure my generosity cannot be questioned.

Racist much?

In the words of my mother ‘I worry that someone will go away hungry’ (or without a cake/pie/sandwiches for the journey).

I aim for the middle of the op's two stories. I wouldn't dream of kowtowing to people in my house and treating them like kings, and neither would I fail to provide basic sustenance. I won't bother saying where I'm from, because I think the op is taking the piss.

If a guest dropped their child off with water, it would embarrass me because it suggests I am unable/unwilling to offer water, the most basic of hospitality.

I understand, OP. And that’s fine, you can maintain that belief/view if you want. But when you’re socialising with people from a different background to you, it’d be better for you to be able to learn to tolerate and understand that people aren’t doing this to embarrass or offend or upset you: clearly the parents with kids who send them with a bottle of water aren’t doing it to suggest you can’t offer a drink! Their child might be too nervous to ask, and have had experiences before where they went for a play date and weren’t offered a drink (like happened to you), might be getting over an illness like a UTI that requires more water intake, any reason really.

It’s not a slight on you for a child to show up with a drink with them, just like it’s not a slight on you to arrive at someone’s house and not be given a drink. These are cultural differences, there’s no point being embarrassed or upset or offended. It’s a different way of doing things. I’d chill out a bit tbh :)

The problem is I think you link food etc to what they think of you and culturally that’s fine but you can’t extrapolate it out. I don’t see it as disrespectful if all I’m offered is a cup of tea and maybe a biscuit

Now I have to say nothing in a two hour play date is odd but if it’s outside of eating times a drink and light snack is sufficient. The one play date sounds odd but he may well have not thought

I don’t snack between meals and find being offered food sometimes uncomfortable

I’m surprised how many kids turn up empty handed. DS always takes something along - box of pastries from the bakery for everyone or if it’s a sleepover wine/chocolates for the host!

Also OP you should practice asking for a drink of water at someone’s house if you’re thirsty. It’s not rude. Nobody would object to that at all. Whether it’s from a guest, someone doing some work on your home, whatever. Water is a basic human need and there isn’t a person in the country who wouldn’t happily give you a drink if you ask.

I can already imagine you thinking ‘but won’t that offend them as I’m saying they can’t provide for me without being asked to’: nobody cares! Don’t overthink it. That rule and belief may apply in your own culture but it doesn’t in the culture of most those of us born and raised in the UK without parents or grandparents from a different country. It’s fine.

My punjabi friend never stops making food and drinks, it is lovely (she is the best cook!) Sometimes I just want her to stop though, so I can talk to her. She is in and out of the room and up and down getting things so we can never chat. I have always been offered food in the U.K. and always offer to guests. I don’t constantly want to be plied with more and more though, maybe the people you visit are more generous with their time than food/drink than you are used to?

And when you get to know someone really really well, usually after many years of friendship, if you go round and they don’t offer a drink and it’s clearly been forgotten about you can even make the drink yourself or say ‘I’m gasping, shall I make the coffee?’ or try and get their teenager to do it ‘for practice’ :P

Candyflip Maybe go out for coffee together so there’s no pressure for her to do the providing :)

@Rightgirlwrongplanet1

Sorry if you've already said, but how much food do you expect your kid to be offered?

I don't keep sweets or crisps in the house. I put out a place with fruit, and a plate of sliced carrots and cucumber or wee sandwhiches (depending on the time - if they're having dinner in an hour then there's no need).

Would that be sufficient or are you expecting spreads of cakes, sweets, full meals of stuff laid on?

We do that too, and she comes over to my chaotic house where it is more usual to fend for yourself. I provide drinks and food and then sit on my fat lazy arse and chat for hours....

We live in the south east of England

I think this is the crux. I'm from Yorkshire, guests are offered tea before they have sat down and tea must always be accompanied food, traditionally fruit cake with cheese on top, but a biscuit will do.

Are you in an area where you are the only Sikh family for miles around? It might be that the English hosts are not confident they can offer food/drink and it not be acceptable because they don't know any dietary rules for Sikhs?

It’s a bit unrealistic to say that you can simply say no when confronted with a Turkish Mrs Doyle who’s clearly gone to a lot of effort.

OP, I kind of agree with you. Black and West Indian British people aren’t like this. That said, Scottish folks tend to be really generous. I’ve heard the same about Northern Irish folks well. Maybe this is an English thing? The “British northern” people replying who say they feed others are just actually English Northern.

On the flip side, it’s okay to teach your children to actually ask for a drink if they want or need one. Teach them that they have agency.

@weehedgehog why not just give the mum feedback again instead of cutting out play dates? You could say, “Thank you for offering last time but that really was too much. Next time they’re together, please don’t give him more than one item. It ruins his dinner and upsets our evening. Thanks!” There, done. What’s so hard about that?

This avoiding talking to people thing is very a (white?) British thing from what I’ve seen. Just say something and get on with life FFS instead of avoiding all communication because it’s “awkward”. 🙄

I would always always offer drinks but not food unless it was a meal time. I don’t really ‘snack’ in the day so I guess I don’t expect my guests too? For play dates I always offer snacks because my dd is 3, and it seems expected at that age. However as she gets older I can’t imagine feeling to need to feed a child snacks on a 2 hour play date, especially if I know the child is going home to have dinner. Must be a cultural difference. It’s not meant to be rude. I have a friend who is a ‘feeder’ and find myself often eating at hers when I don’t want to to avoid being rude. I find this as uncomfortable as being a little peckish to be honest!

i think this is the crux. I'm from Yorkshire, guests are offered tea before they have sat down and tea must always be accompanied food, traditionally fruit cake with cheese on top, but a biscuit will do.

This highlights how different social and cultural norms can be, even within two similar families!

I was born in Yorkshire, white British, and although you’d always offer a guest a hot or cold drink, I’ve never experienced anyone offering or being offered fruit cake (let alone with cheese on, does that work!?). There’s no ‘food MUST be offered with drink’. Just a drink.

Fruit cake with cheese on is fabulous. But very very filling.

I live in the south and am from an Asian background too. Growing up, my English friends were really generous and I was always fed with lovely food when over at theirs.
My closest friend would come round to mine for Eid and I’d go to hers for Christmas. They had a big welcoming house and I was always offered home made cake, snacks and invited to stay for dinner.
Now with kids of my own, English parents have been generous with food on play dates for the kids and gifts on birthdays. They’ve always checked what food my dc can eat and have provided them with appropriate food.

Lol, it didn’t take long for this to descend into northerners are nicer/friendlier/more generous/just much better humans than southerners