DP went to a strip club on a stag do, and I'm like "this is over"

[OhYikesThisIsBad]

So DP [of c.5 years] went to European resort stag do last weekend. I'll be honest: I was fretful, but assumed he has aligned views on women cavorting for men's pleasure.

For context: we're chums with bride and groom, the wedding's fairly soon. DP and I haven't seen each other til tonight, through work travel.

He announces tonight, as we begin our third drink, "yes well there was a strip club".

Apparently he and another chum "went along with everyone" and sat at the bar because they felt "uncomfortable". The groom had a dance "but paid for by someone else!". I asked: DP thinks the bride and groom should still get married.

I'm very very sad, very angry, have told him this is a no go, relationship ender, etc. I loathe strip clubs.

Dunno what i want really - possibly someone to say "no you're wrong, he's a good lad", "he only went along with the crowd". Maybe a hand hold. Is there any way back from this? I was really looking forward to this bank hol. #fuckssake

Just because some women don’t agree with tarring all men with the same brush

It's not feminists who are tarring all men with the same brush. It's all the people asserting that men are like pack animals, all view porn, all go to strip clubs, etc.

Those are the ones who are tarring all men with the same brush, not the people saying that some men are decent and don't do that.

How did it go when you spoke OP? I agree, you should stick to your principles.
Hard to believe the number of posters on here whose husbands all sat in the bar. So many men being dragged in against their will. As a previous poster said it’s a wonder the strip clubs don’t all go out of business.

AskAuntLydia you're saying that any man who goes to strip clubs, even occasionally, is by definition not a decent man. You even seeming to be saying that any man who views porn even occasionally is by definition not a decent man.

Do I Scott?

How disconcerting for you.

A man may be decent in other ways, but if his view of women is shit, then he's not decent enough for me, or by the sounds of it, for the OP.

Hope that clarifies.

AskAuntLydia it is interesting that anonymous research indicates that a significant amount of women use porn. Research where women believe the researchers might be able to link them to porn viewing finds the numbers a lot lower.

Even when handing an anonymous form in. If they hand the form to a person rather than putting it in a box the amount of women who 'admit' to viewing porn changes.

So your friends are very, very unlikely to tell you they use porn especially if you make your views known. Doesn't mean they don't though.

I'd link to the research but I can't remember the details.

Moussemoose, it is telling that the way female libido works porn is considerably less appealing to women than than to men, but even so a significant number still view it regularly. But AuntLydia is subscribing to a very traditionalist view where a man is so full of love and dedication for his Beloved that he only has eyes for her and never seeks any kind of titillation elsewhere. The percentage of men who manage to fulfill this ideal would be very low though.

Don't lie about what I think please Scott72.

I haven't said anything of the sort.

The fact that you are making up things about what I think, says more about your critical thinking skills, than it does about my opinions.

@Scott72 & Moussed this is MN Relationships board, there is a very specific bias that runs through most responses on here.

Yeah, the bias is that sometimes, women argue that eating shit from men, is not an essential part of working on a relationship.

I think we don't know how the female libido works. I read the research and it seems much of what women actually want is filtered through societal expectations so we don't know.

And I include myself in the not knowing. So men, who have different but no less intense pressure, also can't always know. And then you throw a partner into the mix telling you what they want you to want or not want.

It's not as simple as my partner did X so he must be Y.

It's amazing how many dhs here have been to strip clubs with friends, but didn't participate and didn't enjoy it

I must say I read this and when my husband came back from his stag do had marks on his back from
Being whipped by a stripper he swears that's all that happened having said that even 20 years later
Makes me feel sick. I have since visited a strip club and it wasn't amazing nor did it make me feel inferior their just normal girls with kids making a living however I can't say about being abroad x
I didn't want my husband to go but it's what was done at the time and I wasn't strong enough to end it ... having said that I would know !

Do any of you really think your DH’s will come back saying ‘I had a fucking brilliant night, private dances, really hot women, best night ever’

Or will they say ‘I didn’t really want to go, so I sat at the bar with my eyes staring at my pint. It was pretty uncomfortable if I’m honest’.

@drspouse
At 51 plenty of men and women are still quite sexual.
And - why would they discuss their masturbation routines with you?

My point it - having culled ‘porn users’ from your friendship circles in early 20, you are highly likely to have a lot of them as friends now.
In 30s-40s when your female friends were having babies - their husbands (the good ones, who didn’t take it outside) - dealt with slowdown of home sex life in any way that they could. Porn use tends to come in a lot then. Denying it is the same as mimicking an ostrich.
Then, if peri/menopause affected women’s drive and men’s is still high - then porn use perks up again.
Still better than going outside, no?

And then there are females that also enjoy an odd solo play with visual aid.

As you correctly said - you have no idea what happens in people’s personal lives. So - you are currently friends with ‘those’ people. And surprisingly - most of them are normal and not repulsive sexists.
They just have a different view on porn.

I do agree with one thing - if anyone starts discussing porn and strip clubs in public - those people are weird and I won’t be friends with them.

No MY point was that it may be common among today's 20 somethings but it's a generational thing and it wasn't common when I was in my 20s. I didn't have to cull anyone I actually wanted to be friends with.
So while it might be true that those in their 20s now will continue to use porn in their 50s, my generation is not in such a strong habit.
DH has never been asked to go to a strip club for a stag do nor on any lads holidays, clearly again either he's successfully cut his friends down to those who respect women as people OR it just isn't a thing in general among 60 somethings (he's older). I do know when he was in his 20s it would have been beyond seedy as a stag do suggestion but everyone just wants more more more now. I'm sure some of his generation went to a prostitute as a stag thing but again any whisper of that would have led to him dropping that friend like a hot potato.

As I get older the one thing I know for sure is I have no idea what direction other people's sex lives take.

Without disclosing details I imagine my friends would be horrified/aghast/surprises/shocked if they had any idea what my DP and I got up to.

I simply don't let them know. Perhaps that is generational older people tend to keep quiet while younger people feel more able to discuss details. Don't assume anything. They have been recent studies that show a significant amount of people are sexually adventurous well into old age.

I know my DP would be excruciatingly embarrassed at a strip show. I've said he can only go if I get to go so I can laugh as the very British embarrassment that would seep from his every pore.

Mousse - I agree and am happy for the people who feel free and happy to continue enjoying sex...

My late 40s friend was recently invited by an older (~60?) gentleman in her tennis club to a party. Apparently - they have a group of 50-60 yos, that get together and have drinks, dinner, etc.... All consenting adults.

And - while she thought it was funny and just said - thanks, but no thanks. We both were quite happy to realise that there is sex in the latter years. And even new things to experience should we be so inclined....
😂😂😂😂

In case no-one followed the link in one of OPs last posts:
"Yana was only 17 when she left Slovakia with a man she thought was her boyfriend, to start a new life in Amsterdam.

When she arrived, she found she would not be leading the life that she dreamed of.

Unknown to her, her boyfriend had sold her to brothel owners.

"He led me to a space where there were a couple of men who were saying that I was beautiful, that I was sexy and they were basically saying that she is here for us, this is what we want her to do… They tore apart my clothes and they raped me."

Yana provides a tragic and deeply emotional testimony of being raped daily and pushed to the brink of suicide.

It is a story that every stag should hear.

Yana finally escaped after a year trapped in Amsterdam. "

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8457172.stm

"It is not difficult to find a British stag weekender, a bright young man who had admitted to using a prostitute.

I told him that many prostitutes in Amsterdam had been trafficked.

"I don't agree with that, I think it's awful," he said, but admitted it probably would not stop him using a prostitute again that night.

"I disagree with it, but at the end of the day it's just what happens, like. You can't do anything about it. You're just here to have fun, and do things you won't get away with back home."

"You're just here to have fun." How depressing

Trafficking of any kind is truly awful and needs to be investigated and prosecuted.

You can't do anything about it.

Because it's impossible for young men like him, to not rape a prostituted woman on a stag night isn't it? It's impossible for him to decide not to be one of the rapists who fuel the demand for children like Yana to be brought to cities like Prague and Amsterdam so men like him can rape them.

They are so disgusting. Who wants friends or partners like this.

fuxache all these people who think trafficking is awful.

The sort of fuckwits who go to strip clubs, are fuelling the demand.

It's because of them that gangsters find it profitable to traffic women.

If all men stopped going to strip clubs and brothels, trafficking would simply stop overnight, because there would be no market for it.

You cannot throw up your hands and say how awful trafficking is and then in the very same breath, say there's nothing wrong with strip clubs.

The two are inextricably linked.

The hugely sad thing here, is people are STILL ignoring the fact that this was a European strip joint. Also all the posts that have highlighted EXACTLY what goes on in these places. Even from men who have said as well.

They are nothing more than organised fronts for criminal gangs pushing exploited Eastern European and Russian women for an anything goes stag culture.

I think I’ve said it a few times now, I know people who work in these popular stag countries. They have been told to stay away from them explicitly because they are gang ran establishments. Putting them at risk of all sorts, not least if the ‘wife at home’ gets hold of what really goes on. It is well known exactly how the industries are ran in these resorts for people who live and work there. Which is why they stay away. Unfortunately entitled Stags and foolish wives don’t care.

It’s a seedy, really nasty industry in these foreign stag resorts with no regulation ran by gangs and extremely young exploited women.

You can argue the toss all you like to prove a point, people ignoring this fact and still saying it’s just a strip. One, clearly have no idea about how gang culture runs these resorts and two are totally ignorant to the actually reality of what does happen in these clubs.

We aren’t talking about Nancy earning £200 an hour in a well regulated London club, fleecing the bankers for every penny to get her mansion in the country.

These European resorts are gang run and use trafficked women. It’s as simple as that. Women have every right to say no to the type of man who would go to these places. The naivety on here is shocking.

As you say Master one of the key features of the post is European, while not overlooking the fact that this happens in the U.K. too. It is more common in certain European countries.

There are two issues - trafficking and enforced prostitution and then sexuality and how to explore it. Because of the seedy nature of these clubs and their association with sex it allows wrong doing to grow in the dark.

If societies were more open and less judgmental about sex, if the lid was lifted would the vile nature of these establishments become easier to see?

I don't know.

There is a level of denial that women have to be in, to stay living with some men.

The fact is, some of the people on MN whose husbands or partners have been to strip clubs on stag nights (or at other times) are married to or living with rapists. Men who use prostituted women are rapists. They know what they're doing - paying someone to put up with their cock in them because they wouldn't tolerate it otherwise - and they know that if you put your cock in someone else's body when they don't want you to, it's rape. The fact that you pay them money, doesn't change that. The fact that it may be legal, doesn't change that. They're rapists.

And women don't want to be living with rapists, so they have to lie to themselves about what it means, that the men they live with, go to strip clubs. Even if they don't actually rape them, just sitting there and watching them, clapping along, paying for them to exhibit sexually, is fuelling the traffic.

It's desperately sad. I can understand that many women find living with a man who fuels the sex slavery trade but is nice in all other respects, better than being single. Because you get punished for being single, with relative poverty, lack of status, assumptions that there's something wrong with you, you're bitter, you hate men, you're damaged, you're sexually unusual, etc. etc. It's easier to put up with living with a man who is nice to you and your kids and everyone else they know, even if he is part of the market for young women who are raped every day so that he can have a boner on stag nights with his mates.

But it shows the necessity of feminism, that so many women still have to embrace denial in order to face living with so many men.