DP went to a strip club on a stag do, and I'm like "this is over"

[OhYikesThisIsBad]

So DP [of c.5 years] went to European resort stag do last weekend. I'll be honest: I was fretful, but assumed he has aligned views on women cavorting for men's pleasure.

For context: we're chums with bride and groom, the wedding's fairly soon. DP and I haven't seen each other til tonight, through work travel.

He announces tonight, as we begin our third drink, "yes well there was a strip club".

Apparently he and another chum "went along with everyone" and sat at the bar because they felt "uncomfortable". The groom had a dance "but paid for by someone else!". I asked: DP thinks the bride and groom should still get married.

I'm very very sad, very angry, have told him this is a no go, relationship ender, etc. I loathe strip clubs.

Dunno what i want really - possibly someone to say "no you're wrong, he's a good lad", "he only went along with the crowd". Maybe a hand hold. Is there any way back from this? I was really looking forward to this bank hol. #fuckssake

I think you are over reacting really. Men are just pack animals !!! They will just tag along with the rest of the group !!
Also .. I totally understand and agree with you about the girls being exploited ... but at the end of the day the women are probably just laughing at the stag dos and paying for their shopping and kids school shoes !!!
Multi tasking !
Certainly not worth ending a relationship if it's a good one the rest of the time .. Let it go !!! Don't mention it again ( that'll spook the bugger) x

Depends on your man.

Mine? Was seeing someone when he met me. We met on a holiday.

Wouldn't even go for a drink solo with me until he'd finished with the other girl.

I know him well enough to trust him totally. He's just not a strip club man but he's also not going to kick up a fuss on someone else's stag do either.

I've been to hen parties with butlers in the buff too....so I can't really pass judgement on my DH.

Funny how there is only one view on strip clubs (abused, trafficked women, yarda yarda). I am not sure of the European landscape, but I have met lap dancers (friends of friends) socially in the US and they are absolutely doing what they do freely. There are women on MN who work in the adult entertainment industry and they say they do it freely. Maybe the MN Borg drone mindset is wrong.

All that said Op, it seems a deal breaker for you, so end it. Your DP obviously sees this issue differently to you. He understands your mindset and he still went.

I would split up with him, you need someone who shares your views rather than just letting you air them around you.

There are plenty of men out there, you just need to look in the right places.

Good lord, some of this thread makes for depressing reading.

Whenever I see posts like this where women defend men going to strip clubs in some European stag resort, or watching as much porn as they like, i often wonder how many of them would be so accepting if they were a fly on the wall. Go and see what happens in these clubs, watch the porn your partner watches when he’s alone and then tell me how accepting of it you are. I think many women have a pretty sanitised view of what goes on to be honest.

OP, I would be incredibly upset too. This is not about jealousy, it’s about attitudes towards women and their worth. My DH went to a strip club once as a young man, his boss bought him a lap dance (height of professionalism). He said it was utterly vile and has refused to enter one since, including on stag dos.

Just another symptom of male entitlement and how pervasive misogyny really is. Oh, and the women comparing it to a male hen do stripper are beyond ridiculous - when there’s a huge industry full of men trafficked for female pleasure, when women view men in the way men view women, then we can talk. Until then, don’t be so fucking ridiculous.

OP I find the phrases you’ve used to describe women absolutely abhorrent.

I’ve never heard anyone other than you refer to women as ‘spunk buckets’ or ‘fuckholes’

bear that's not what the op thinks these women are. It's what the men who frequent these places think women are.

I would be upset at this but for me, it would warrant an angry conversation, a promise to never do it again and nothing more. I can't believe you're thinking of throwing away your relationship over this.

If he did it again after knowing how upset you are, that would be a different story. But I find it very believable that he went along with everyone else so as not to stick out, and just sat at the bar. I would probably do the same thing with a male strip club.

I think there is a much larger gap between going to a strip club and cheating than many on this thread seem to think.

As I SAID QUITE LOUDLY earlier to DP, I had another friend whose DP went on holidays with his mates who played golf and shagged prostitutes. She believed that her then DP sat quietly at the bar, mildly out of sorts, while they went off to the brothels. She does not believe that now.

Why should i bother believing that my (ex?) DP only sat at the side?

This is the giveaway really. Is it about the principle of it, or the fear of the reality? I'd put money on the latter dressed up as the former.

OP and many PPs are saying it's all essentially about the ethics: how women are viewed/disrespect/risk women have been trafficked etc. But clearly it's also a huge issue of trust and unfortunately normal self consciousness. But for some reason we can't be allowed to admit that we don't like the idea of our partner finding someone else sexually attractive, but it's anti feminist(!) to be hateful towards another woman, so she has to be turned into a victim instead, allowing us to be both angry and not be accused of hating attractive females.

To say all women who strip have been trafficked is as stupid as saying all women who strip love it and choose to do it. Obviously.

OP many of your posts come across painfully immature although I think you're older than me. To leave over this is ridiculous. I understand you felt you were on the same page on an issue which is clearly very important to you, and that it's shaken your idea of him as a person, at his core. But everyone makes mistakes. He was with a bunch of men in a foreign city, probably a bit pissed, and he made a mistake. What's more important in my opinion is how he deals with that now. Perhaps he waited to tell you because he felt face to face would be better, since you haven't seen each other. That seems kind and reasonable to me. He's distraught, I think you said earlier, and perhaps didn't quite understand the gravity of the situation (for you) at the time. He does now. To leave him is to basically punish him (not to mention yourself) for making a mistake he is now sorry for. If he was arsey and disrespectful of your feelings that's one thing, but he hasn't been. Why you'd throw away an apparently positive 5 year relationship over this baffles me. Everyone does stupid stuff sometimes. It's context and how they then deal with it that matters most.

OP, I’m shocked at some of the responses you’re getting. Some of them reek of the ‘boys will be boys’ argument we fight against so often. Men are NOT pack animals ffs.

Stick to your principles.

it's not what the op thinks these women are. It's what the men who frequent these places think women are.

In her opinion- I’ve literally never heard those phrases used before.

It does not automatically follow that all men who’ve ever been to a strip club automatically have those views.

In fact, that’s clearly the problem here- OP assumes that is the case.

I think there is a much larger gap between going to a strip club and cheating than many on this thread seem to think.

Unless I've completely misunderstood, this thread is nothing to do with cheating.

Bear fair enough, but I don't think it's an inaccurate way to describe the way some men view women. And the way I fear my DP may view women, as not all human.

OP your boundaries are your boundaries and if this crosses a line for you then that's perfectly ok. It must have been a shock to realise he really wasn't the man you thought. Equally, if you choose to forgive and forget please don't beat yourself up over that either as long as it's right for you. I hope you are doing ok today.

I have to say, my favourite comments are from those saying their partners go to strip clubs but don't enjoy them or participate..!!! Sure!!! Out of interest, have any of you ever been to one of those clubs?? I think you'd find the reality a little different to this idea of your partner sitting at the bar quietly sipping a pint and studiously ignoring the strippers!

Working on the basis of what you've said, he is on a different page to you on what is (for you) a deal breaker, so yes I think this isnt the relationship for you. You can't police his thoughts or actions and so where they are naturally divergent from yours - even subtly, yes, he might always intuitively make different choices to you. And that's his right too. It may be morally wrong in your opinion but he has a right to make choices for himself. I know you don't even want to police his thoughts, you want him just to be on the same line of the same page but he isn't. Or not close enough for you.

I'd only add stating the obvious really, that human beings are complex and human and we do make mistakes. All of us. If the situation was reversed and you'd unwittingly or carelessly overstepped one of his boundaries without engaging your brain would you expect forgiveness or the boot?

Bear fair enough, but I don't think it's an inaccurate way to describe the way some men view women. And the way I fear my DP may view women, as not all human.

Which is exactly your problem- you are trying to put everyone into a neat little pigeon hole that suits your views of how every man that goes to a strip chubs actually thinks.

As a PP said, it’s incredibly immature to think it’s that simple.

@Typeractive no, but some posters have brought cheating into it.

I’m with the guy too good who posted on here saying there is a huge naive response on here about Eastern Europe/stag resort strip clubs and why they are so popular.

All run by gangs and very young women. It’s not just a strip. Interactive sex shows with other strippers, the guys involved.

It’s not your ‘classy’ joint down Soho. It’s a totally different world compared to going to a strip club here.

Mine wouldn’t go away to these resorts anyway. Brits abroad isn’t him, neither is going to resorts run by gangs. I’d finish it if he did.

These resorts aren’t suddenly popular because of cheap booze and the local friendly strip club.

bear There are plenty of articles and essays to be read about what men who purchase access to women really think about them. Extracts from review sites are very eye opening. How do you think men view the women who do these activities when many would be furious/revolted if they found out their wife/mother/daughter/sister were part of it.

Will also point out fuckholes and spunk buckets are commonly used in pornography, in reference to women.

Anyhoo, food for thought upthread. For those who want me to pay for my meal at the wedding, will just point out that thus far I have told DP at some length how angry and sad I am, and posted on mumsnet.

I have not yet pressed the nuclear button, nor declined an invitation at this late stage.

Watching attractive women dance naked is going to be highly enjoyable for almost all men ( and lots of women - my work colleague is gay and went to a strip club for her hen do and was in heaven!). I don't agree that watching women strip means that you see them as subhuman.

I honestly think you're overreacting but I suppose you must make a decision that you feel comfortable with. I would be careful about a knee jerk reaction and deciding that he is a terrible person based on this though. In his position I would have done the same TBH, based on curiosity, wanting to have a fun night and making sure the groom enjoyed his stag do.

Here's a (quite old) report on British stag do and the trafficking of women into sexual exploitation to service them

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8457172.stm

OP, do you think your friend would go ahead with the wedding if she knew?

These (very regular) threads always make me inside cry a little for us all.

They are not about the possibility that the husband might one day have an affair.

They are about the realisation that the partner’s noises made about women and men being equal are just that. noise.

Visiting a strip club in a european destination is saying you think exploitation of women, poverty, trafficking and having no other option is acceptable to you. THIS is why their partner’s have a problem with it.

I may be revelling in my "immaturity" but am keen to know what the mature, cool response to this would be