DP went to a strip club on a stag do, and I'm like "this is over"

[OhYikesThisIsBad]

So DP [of c.5 years] went to European resort stag do last weekend. I'll be honest: I was fretful, but assumed he has aligned views on women cavorting for men's pleasure.

For context: we're chums with bride and groom, the wedding's fairly soon. DP and I haven't seen each other til tonight, through work travel.

He announces tonight, as we begin our third drink, "yes well there was a strip club".

Apparently he and another chum "went along with everyone" and sat at the bar because they felt "uncomfortable". The groom had a dance "but paid for by someone else!". I asked: DP thinks the bride and groom should still get married.

I'm very very sad, very angry, have told him this is a no go, relationship ender, etc. I loathe strip clubs.

Dunno what i want really - possibly someone to say "no you're wrong, he's a good lad", "he only went along with the crowd". Maybe a hand hold. Is there any way back from this? I was really looking forward to this bank hol. #fuckssake

@HelenaDove not purposefully, I apologise. That didn't even cross my mind. I have both shopped at primark and been to a strip club so it was not from a place of thinking I was better than anyone else. I can see what you're saying and have been educated.

@Raisinshoes "Most people would would say that adultery is wrong, but over 1/3 of relationships end because of infidelity. So there’s a lot of people out there who find reasons to do things that they themselves don’t think are moral"

That's an interesting demographic.

So both adultery and going to strip clubs are not illegal (in the UK) and both are things people do but interesting many men don't feel strip clubs are wrong, where as a number of women do. I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, just wondering.

I think a lot of women conflate their jealousy and personal discomfort with this issue. It’s not great but it’s a stag do and to say it’s a relationship deal breaker is unbelievably OTT.

This statement is part of a bigger issue I see on MN all the time. The idea that there are right and wrong reasons to split from someone. That you can be OTT in deciding that, no, this kind of person is not for you. You see so many posts of AIBU and he is a good dad but or I'm no saint either etc etc.

Do people not realise that picking a partner for life - especially a partner you will have children with - is a process of judging. You decide what you can and cannot put up with. It is ok to say "strip clubs - sorry, not for me, terrible that I found out 5 years in but glad I discovered before I procreated with you" As is clear from this thread, there are many women happy to settle down with a man like the OP's partner.

And plenty also (me included) who wanted something different from a life partner and got it.

Also intrigued by all these women who have conversations with/know/friends with strippers and lap dancers who are intelligent, empowered, and earning a ton.

Do you go back and recommend it to your daughters as a job?

Why not?

bergamot no worries

I believe the stag do costumes were from Primark - could this be related?

What galls (perhaps the most) is that hen do was some weeks ago in and I complained to DP how terrible it was to have men shout "OI BIG TITS YOU" and be groped by men, and have men grab my hands (weirdest of all). And DP was so sympathetic and horrified - as i said "and there were women cavorting naked everywhere as decoration" as part explanation for men thinking women were just sexually available in .

And still the stupid fucker goes to a strip club?

And this other stupid fucker (me) is trying to find excuses for him - maybe the bar was far away from the dance? etc.

bergamot, speaking for myself, yes: the issue you've raised does concern me. Although I am also broadly in agreement with the point Helena made so eloquently.

And I think you conflate two quite different things. In the case of cheap clothing, the degradation of the child is hidden: a tragic by-product of the manufacturing process. No one is going into Primark to get all horny thinking of those poor little ones working their fingers to the bone. But with stripping degradation of the woman is the product: that's exactly what the men are paying to see.

(am not blaming women who strip for men's behaviour, that was badly worded)

I don't think it needs to be said OP but of course you can end a relationship for any reason you like. I don't think you're being precious.

Why do all you supporters of strip clubs say "girls"? That's kind of disturbing.

I think YANBU. I honestly don’t understand how so many people are ok with strip clubs. If he deliberately went to a meeting room with all his mates to watch Jane from HR shake her naked tits and bits around, or in your living room with your neighbour, or ANY other setting other than a bloody strip club, surely it would not be ok? I don’t think DP has the kind of friends who would pressure someone into going to places like this. Because they aren’t dicks. It seems like a bit of a slap in the face of monogamy to pay money just to be near someone you really, really want to fuck? Idk. I think they’re gross. But respect to the women who can stomach playing these men for as much money as they can get from creeps.

I suppose you're right @Typeractive that's an interesting point about it being hidden. I imagine some men think it's harmless sort of "lad culture" where women are quite happy to dance around in skimpy underwear. Whereas some men are more than aware of the degradation and exploitation and that's what they like about it.

I also imagine that Uk strips clubs are an entirely different kettle of fish than big european ones. The woman I know who worked in a quite small strip club saw it as just a job, in fact she looked at it as taking advantage of the men she danced for, who I think she thought were stupid for being there. Which I thought was an interesting take on the situation.

Yikes it sounds like you Dp was well aware of your feelings on the matter. If you believe he was just at the bar it may (or may not) comfort you to know that in the club I have been to the bar was no where near the dancing and in order to have a private dance you'd have to be in a booth. There was a pole dancer in a corner but not particularly close to the bar.

For context I will say in there are women paid to dance naked in bar windows, to draw in the crowds. And i have sympathy with it being a transgressive environment, and peer pressure not to make a fuss.

But FFS. Can there be a minimum standard for relationships? Maybe we could have covered this in PHSE or whatever it was.

• Paying women for sexual activity is seedy, exploitative and just plain rude
• being unfaithful is really bad but you can also end a relationship for less bad things
• Not being hit by a partner isn't actually a sign things are ok etc.

Actually, in lieu of good sexual health and relationships education, this thread is very good:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

But FFS. Can there be a minimum standard for relationships?

No there can't. There are women on another thread who think it fine to lick their plate after every meal or be married to a man who does.

Every old sock finds an old shoe. People are different.

What is ok is to have YOUR minimum standards for relationships - personal to you. I would not marry a man who thought it ok to go to strip clubs no matter what his other endearing qualities. Ditto licking plates.

You don't actually need to have any one else's approval. Hilda from Swinton can think that strip clubs are just a laugh and the girls there are having a great time and earning loads (although Hlda will rarely push her own daughter into this fabulous job) and you can still think No, not for me.

I’ll be honest if my hubby said he was going to a strip club I would kick off, and yet female friends of mine go to see men doing a male model full monty show and I think it’s funny. So maybe I’m a hypocrite

It’s a dealbreaker for me too, and by that I mean it would be a marriage-ender.

Stay true to your values.

It’s not comparing like with like, @Whyarealltheusernamestaken, for example the human trafficking and so on.

Not an issue for me, but if it’s one of your deal breakers and he knew this, then I’d have issue. I e been to strip clubs, DH has been to them, we even once went together. I don’t see them as exploiting the women if they are a reputable one, but respect that others do.

I would end a relationship over this, yes. It's fairly fundamental to me that the person I share my life with doesn't think it's okay to pay watch women stripping.

Good luck deciding the way forward, OP.

Just read some books or go to the theatre. You don't have to do this rubbish stuff.

Good luck. And honestly please realise men have fantasies, admire women all the time - alll day long (some of them) and you will never ever imo meet a fella who doesn’t. Men love sex, women, scantily clad women.

Oh ffs, what a load of shite. Having a natural inclination to find the opposite sex attractive is not the same as thinking strip clubs, lap dancing or prostitutes are acceptable. And no, point of fact, not all men are into strip clubs and sex shows. I'm going to a stag do in Dundee in a few weeks time. When the stag was being planned, both Prague and Amsterdam were proposed as venues. Enough of the lads made it clear they wouldn't be going if either of those were chosen they were quickly ruled out. I suspect from some of the posts in this thread there's a lot of naivity and ignorrance with many women as to why places like Prague have become popular stag destinations. It's not just because the beer is cheap. It's because the prostitutes are cheap and the strip clubs are far more explicit, basically live hardcore porn, than anything you will ever find in the UK.

Not all strip clubs are “human trafficking” I may not like them but let’s not label them all the same

Why are all, you have to understand that no man/person walking into a strip club can know if their place is full of human traffic victims or not. They would also be supporting and funnelling money into the system for human trafficking so saying ‘ah don’t tar them all with the same brush’ doesn’t create an excuse for anyone.

Of course it doesn’t mean it’s ok, just as male strip clubs are not always ok either. We all depend on the law to say if it’s a regulated and approved place, like any other club. If they say it is then is it disgusting for us to enter?

I didn’t label them all the same

What could he have done, OP? Gone off by himself in a strange city? Gone home? He was in a very difficult position, and decided to sit at the bar away from the stripping, which seems like the best option tbh.