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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dh sent me a photo by mistake.

1000 replies

CoatsProtectionLeague · 24/05/2018 09:19

It’s really rattled me.

He sent a bunch of photos that all made sense in relation to a big purchase we’re considering- this other photo was completely random.

I sent a text back saying- I’m quite sure you didn’t mean to send this photo to me.

When he came back from work he was very defensive and said there was nothing inappropriate/sexual about the photo and that I was being unreasonable.

I have a very strange gut instinct that I cannot shake off. We almost split up 5 years ago when he was trying to persue someone on social media/sexting. We got over that and decided our marriage was worth saving on the proviso he did it again he was out-instantly.

Something’s not right.

Where do I go from here experts?

OP posts:
CoatsProtectionLeague · 04/06/2018 06:15

Lorddenning I’d struggle to pay all the bills and just keep myself afloat- let alone 4 DC-

OP posts:
Huskylover1 · 04/06/2018 07:43

This is why you MUST pursue half of his Pension Coats (assuming he has one) and Economic Recompense. I'd try to have a Separation Agreement already drawn up, before you confront him. His head may be spinning so fast, that he signs without too much fuss. Remember to also ask your Sol, about staying on the family home until youngest is 18. Photocopy his payslip from the end of the last tax year, clearly showing his annual income. He may lie to CMS about his income. Even if you don't think he would, copy it anyway, it can't hurt. What he does now, might swivel in a heartbeat if he gets a new bird on his arm (and moaning in his ear about how much he sends you each month).

Flowers
Newerversion · 04/06/2018 07:49

It would probably be advisable to ask your solicitor about a ‘mesher order’ to ensure the house remains yours until your youngest turns 18.

diodati · 04/06/2018 08:01

What @Huskylover1 said. Very important!

CoatsProtectionLeague · 04/06/2018 08:12

I’m inclined to go for a clean break. I won’t be able to afford to run a four bed house on my own-

I suspect he will leave his job have no salary and move in with his wealthy parents and I’m certain they’ll pay for his legal fees. A family member (their side)did something similar and got away with it. Wife ended up with fuck all and the dc live with their dad.

That will not happen to me.

I’d rather we sell the family home ASAP and I get a larger share to then buy something smaller for the kids and myself. This is all stuff I need to iron out with my sol who I am seeing on the 14th.

If we sell the house does H have to pay maintenance for the children also? I thought a clean break meant once monies are settled it’s done.

It would take me years to train/work/get promoted to anything near his level. (I only took a PT position in a dead end job to pay for clubs/holiday money etc) I’m not sure how I’d do that with children so I don’t think it’s unfair for me to be recompensed

I’m not catastrophising - I have to plan for every eventuality. He will not be no cry about any of this.

OP posts:
CoatsProtectionLeague · 04/06/2018 08:13

Thanks Husky- all covered on the admin front I have copies of everything out of the house.

OP posts:
Brightonmum1 · 04/06/2018 08:19

The way you have behaved throughout this has Ben phenomenal Coats... in Tim you I’ll look back on this and feel so proud of yourself.
The best bit is you will be the one to know that it is you that has come out of this with your pride and self respect intact along with an army of admirers... some of which you will have helped should they be the ones to go through this in years to come.
I take my hat of to you!
I’m in no doubt whatsoever that you will go from strength to strength from here on with a new sense of self worth.
You are doing so well considering...
💐

Itscurtainsforyou · 04/06/2018 08:27

A clean break would mean no spousal maintenance but not no child maintenance.

Your husband sounds like a complete arse. Hopefully a combination of this investment and selling the house will mean you'll be ok financially

timeisnotaline · 04/06/2018 08:32

You would get child maintenance... but if he’s quit his job there might not be any worth counting unfortunately.

TheClitterati · 04/06/2018 08:39

Fuck OP you are doing wonders. Respect!

You can get pre paid debit cards - Revolut is a good one and it's free after initial small (£10?) to buy. It has an Ap which updates instantly with spends. I use mine when I travel.

If you admin any of his insurances, bills, cards etc can you set renewal dates so they expire just after you have left? And reset all the passwords etc so it's really hard for him to access anything? Basically to create a world of admin pain and inconvenience when he needs it most Grin

TheClitterati · 04/06/2018 08:40

Fuck OP you are doing wonders. Respect!

You can get pre paid debit cards - Revolut is a good one and it's free after initial small (£10?) to buy. It has an Ap which updates instantly with spends. I use mine when I travel.

If you admin any of his insurances, bills, cards etc can you set renewal dates so they expire just after you have left? And reset all the passwords etc so it's really hard for him to access anything? Basically to create a world of admin pain and inconvenience when he needs it most Grin

FredaNerkk · 04/06/2018 09:23

Some wise words from trackerc and a good idea to consider from 3luckystars

Huskylover1 · 04/06/2018 09:55

OF COURSE he has to pay Child Maintenance. Your splitting of assets etc, is entirely separate from that.

The calculation is based on is salary, how many nights a week he has them, and how many kids there are (I know there are 4).

Here is the Calculator:

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

You can make your own arrangements (for him to pay you directly), however, beware, if you do this, and do not open an official case with CMS, then if he defaults, you have no-one to help you.

It only costs £20 to have your case logged with CMS. Then, if he doesn't pay, you have them behind you. They can pressure him massively to pay, by repeated phone calls and letters, and they can also attach his earnings.

If you didn't open a case with them, and he messed you around, say one year after your split, you could open a case then, BUT, they will only deal with matters going forward (ie. cannot backdate to before you opened the case), so it's best to get the case opened asap. You can still have him pay you directly, but have the case logged in the background, for leverage.

SandyY2K · 04/06/2018 10:07

The thing about life, is it doesn't always work out ad we plan. You can be on one road and suddenly come to a dead end, forcing you to take another route.

You've so far handled this sudden life changing situation amazingly. I've no doubt it's damn hard.... in a few weeks your life and will change .... but you have a good head on your shoulders. You know you deserve better. You've got a very calm exterior and you sound like a fantastic mum.

In some years you'll look upon this time and wonder how you did it. You have great strength you probably never knew existed until recently.

After it's all over, you may find it useful to have some counselling. Being able to talk through it is really useful.

You're smarter than your H could ever dream of being and he'll realise when it's much too late what a good woman he's lost.

FredaNerkk · 04/06/2018 10:26

Itscurtainsforyou and timeisnotaline are correct about a clean break not affecting statutory CMS child maintenance.

Here is some info about spousal maintenance (also called periodic payments) I learnt through life experience that might help you, OP, and/or other PPs. (The info is from the perspective of the law in England)
It's just meant as background, to give you a heads up. Not to replace legal advice (I'm not a solicitor).

Given what your DCs will need from you in the future and the backseat that your earning capacity has taken (compared to the career development its sounds like your STBXH has been able to maintain during the marriage), you may well have a good case for spousal maintenance on top of a bigger split of the assets. Even if he deliberately loses his job, the courts might attribute earning capacity to him when assessing a claim for spousal maintenance (whereas the CMS don't take account of whether he deliberately chucked in his job). (But they also take account if his job is precarious).

In England, the statutory criteria for spousal maintenance are set out in section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25

There is also some important case law (judge made law), which explains how judges are supposed to interpret the word 'need'. Basically - there is no general formula for the court’s assessment of ‘needs’ – it is necessarily an elastic case-specific concept – but the courts have identified some factors to assist case-specific determinations. (I can give more info if it would be helpful.) 'Need' does not mean what you 'need' to avoid falling below the poverty line. 'Needs' reflect to some degree, and to the extent financially possible, the economic standard of life during the marriage. Hence the exW of a rich, celeb couple might get large spousal maintenance payments; the exW of a poor couple will not. (It's not a very sensible use of the term 'needs'; it's a legal use of the word).

Spousal maintenance can seem like a good thing - like on-going money. However keep in mind that a spousal maintenance order can be a nuisance to enforce if he plays silly buggars and doesn't pay. And in time, if his or your circumstances change, he can apply to 'vary' a spousal maintenance order. So spousal maintenance is not as 'real' and as reliable as getting a really good split of existing assets. Not all solicitors mention this; I think they assume we know this or it's obvious. But it wasn't obvious to me. Sometimes you have negotiate a financial settlement that includes both a split of assets somewhat in your favour plus spousal maintenance because there aren't enough assets to support both parties housing needs and pay for the future needs of the person who will continue to be financially limited by the marriage. Time is needed for the other person to earn income - hence spousal maintenance payments over time.
If you are willing to move to a smaller, less expensive house and you are the primary carer, then he won't be able to argue he 'needs' a bigger house than you. (He will be able to say he 'needs' a house with similar number of bedrooms to you so that your kids will be comfortable when they visit him).

Bottom line - a spousal maintenance order is helpful but not 'definite'. Get as good a split of the hard assets as possible. Sometimes being willing to agree to forgo spousal maintenance is a good negotiating tool.
On a non-financial note, spousal maintenance is emotionally draining. It leaves you tied to him, and open to his whingeing about you sponging off him and him financing your lifestyle. You have to remind him to pay (even if the order says he is supposed to set up a standing order chances are he won't, or he will and then he'll cancel it etc.) And each year you have to work out the increase with reference to RPI/CPI. And then get him to vary his standing order. So in short - you have to keep thinking about being linked to him.

PS if you do need some spousal maintenance - don't listen to his whingeing. It is not him paying for you after you are divorced- he is paying because it wasn't possible for the parties to achieve a fair split at the time of divorce. He pays over time so that the marriage split is fair in time taking into account the children's welfare and how having children in the marriage affected you financially in the past and into the future.

If his earnings exceed the statutory CMS limit, you can also apply for court-ordered child maintenance. Again though, you will have the complexity of enforcing such an order. So getting the assets up front and then managing them through investment could be better if family finances allow.

NB there is what one might call a 'hard clean break' and a 'soft clean break'. With a hard clean break - you have no right to bring a future application to reapply for periodic spousal maintenance . With a soft clean break, you basically settle up but there is also a clause which allows you to bring a fresh application later if something serious happens. Judges don't like exWs to see this or spousal maintenance as a meal ticket for life, but some people like to retain this option just in case they or the kids had a bad accident for example. Your solicitor will know about this. (Make sure you don't leave it open for him to claim against you in the future. You will have enough to worry about as primary carer for 4 DCs. It's unlikely, but not unheard of, and easy for your solicitor to insert a clause in the order to prevent this. )

Another long post - sorry folks. Hope it is useful to some people!

Lorddenning1 · 04/06/2018 12:26

Hi OP, you can also visit this website, www.entitledto.co.uk/
if you are working part time and as i single parent, you may be entitiled to child/working Tax credits, housing benefit etc,

janaus · 04/06/2018 12:39

Just a thought Coats. How are you coping in your day to day life with “D”H and the children. Things basically running the same as normal, cooking, cleaning, family time, outings, school things. I don’t know how you are doing it, carrying on as normal. Big admiration for you, and less stress on the children.

PaulHollywoodsSexGut · 04/06/2018 12:46

Coats, do you have family and friends to support you, watch the children etc when the shit does hit the fan?

Your energy, skill and commitment to keeping it all together is amazing but you will crash. And you will need time to yourself to rebuild your energy and to try and make sense of it all and for self-care.

I hope you have good support and love around you x

Capricornandproud · 04/06/2018 12:58

Hello Coats, I hope you sat and did sweet FA last night as you promised yourself. Just a thought but when I split from exh last year and needed to sort out my Child Tax Credits they stopped all payments immediately as you have to lodge a new claim as a single parent. It took some weeks and form filling, naturally, but just a thoughg to bear in mind. Perhaps worth a look online... also if you aren’t currently entitled to them now, you might be and it would be worth getting that application process or query underway.

One other thing that helped me massively some months later was counselling - for me. I probably should have done it years ago but the week I knew I was done with the marriage I got myself on a waiting list with a local charity and was referred some months later. It may also be worth sussing something like that out for the kids, as I have done for my little boy. It can’t hurt and perhaps you could research a good one and again, see if cost is an issue if there isn’t a service in your area. Xx

CoatsProtectionLeague · 04/06/2018 13:19

I’m ok - this is just easy- planning at this stage. Nothing scary really. Those bits will follow but this will give me the best crash mat I could possibly have and I’m all about that right now.

OP posts:
CoatsProtectionLeague · 04/06/2018 13:24

Keeping the inner me under wraps - that dialogue is really hard. I really wanted to scream blue murder in public at him recently when he was virtue signalling (in front of others)re the plight of trafficked girls. I know full well he’s been seeing sex workers. It’s just so tiring. No wonder he does nothing at home. The whole charade must be exhausting.

Sleaze.

That’s my daily affirmation done Wink

OP posts:
TuTru · 04/06/2018 13:24

GO ON Girl!!!!

Capricornandproud · 04/06/2018 13:25

You’re spot on there Coats. Even though the planning bit can also leave you with some surreal moments and you’ll be doing a lot of crying in the loo at random moments every now and then but the harder times and shocks are to come. However, you at least seem well aware of that. You won’t have the rug pulled out from under your feet and that’s so important. You’ve got this. Xx

purplelass · 04/06/2018 13:32

Hi OP you're doing sooo well throughout this. The best thing about looking back on when ExH did similar is knowing that I kept my dignity whatever crap he threw at me.

Don't count on child maintenance. ExH quit his job as soon as I asked him to pay towards his daughter's upkeep and has paid me very little since, with the threat that he'll quit again if I go after him. You will get child benefit and tax credits though.

Keep your chin up hun, you're doing amazingly and it will be alright in the end, I'm proof! Flowers

Gotitwrongagain · 04/06/2018 13:55

Hi op
I know this is totally forward planning, but you could put it on your list to do, stock your freezer with you/ your kids favourite meals/snacks for the days after the big reveal so that you can comfort eat for when you need it!
Xx

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