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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Absolutely shattered from the end of a "friendship" with a married man

166 replies

noughtsandcrosses123 · 01/05/2018 13:23

Genuinely not sure how this will be received, but at this stage tut-tutting at me can hardly make things any worse! So be as blunt as you like. I don't care.

First off, about me: early 40s, single female, precious little life or sexual experience (for reasons which don't really matter here, I think, but 'high' functioning autism is certainly a part of it, as is a seriously dysfunctional family). Also suffers from severe depression and anxiety.

About C: early 50s, married man, lives in Canada. Wife is a stay-at-home wingnut, ie. she sits at home and reads bizarre right-wing nonsense on Twitter all day long. Doesn't do a stroke of work as far as I can tell. No children.

Right, well that's the protagonists sorted. I met C five years ago on an online depression forum. We clicked straight away and kept in touch via email or the forum. He was proper into me, more than I was into him. I don't mean he ever said anything explicitly sexual, but he would sing my praises and joke about being my stalker on the forum. Always used to sign off his posts to me with cute sayings too, such as 'hugs and stuff' or huggy emoticons. Here is one admittedly rather extreme example of a post about me from two years ago.

You're clever enough to root a tablet, you're funny enough to make the most jaded laugh, you're giving enough to draw compassion from the most hardened, you're brave enough to say no, you're brave enough to say yes, you're smart enough to guide your own treatment, you're humble enough to admit you're limitations, you're self-aware enough to know you need to change, you're articulate enough to quantify that change, you're pretty enough to catch an eye, you're wise enough to reach out for companionship, you're loved enough to have great friends, you're frugal enough to live on your own, you're dextrous enough to crush geometry dash, you're confident enough to have awful taste in music, you're patient enough to be my friend when I don't always deserve it, and you're more than human enough to make a positive impact in the people who get to know you.

Hugs n stuff.

I mean, he was literally still carrying on in that vein up to one week ago. This next bit is an extract from a letter from him to my medical team, which I never showed to anyone. I might now, but it would be for different reasons to what he intended.

Miranda is a highly gifted, exceptionally intelligent woman with a demonstrable talent for painting and sketching. Miranda has a quick wit and wonderful sense of humor, and has proven to be a loyal and valued friend. Miranda expresses a real affinity for animals and is a talented photographer, often posting pictures of her day-to-day encounters on social media. Miranda is active on many social media platforms, and is exceptionally helpful in forums dedicated to Depression, Crohn’s Disease, and Ulcerative Colitis. I first met Miranda on a social media forum for people with depression. I have been diagnosed with both MDD and GAD, which are currently managed effectively with a combination of SSRI medication and talk-therapy. Of note is the extended amount of time that was required for Miranda and me to create a foundation for honesty and openness. This significant time frame for trust, along with Miranda’s tendency for self-deprecation, has led me to believe that Miranda may be unconsciously underplaying the severity of her symptoms when discussing them with a clinician.

I'm not saying he always spoke like that, but he was a gushing sort of person in general. At the same time he never tried to hide the fact that he was married; indeed he seemed to show it off at times, like he was cheerfully reaping the benefits of cosy domesticity. For example he would talk about how he and his wife would "complement" each other, or how they would resolve disagreements. But, while he never ever slagged her off (to me in private or publically), he never really praised her either. He never banged on about her intelligence, her scintillating personality, her good looks or anything about her as a person really.

For the first few years I didn't give a shit about his wife. I didn't consider myself any threat to the marriage, as I wasn't interested in C that way for the longest longest time. Even now, looking back, I couldn't tell you when that began to change - I can only tell you what exacerbated it.

One was a series of personal tragedies in the past year which left me in a more vulnerable and low state than ever. I went into a psychiatric ward for 3 weeks over Christmas, then a day hospital for 2 weeks. The psychiatric ward was an acute ward, intended to stop people from killing or harming themselves, but otherwise offering no counselling or psychological interventions. The day hospital was better, but only because I had more freedom and there were a better set of people there (a couple of which I'm still in touch with).

The second was downloading WhatsApp to speak to my new chums from the day hospital. C was on WhatsApp already and so naturally we added each other. Well, speaking every day on an instant messenger really changed the dynamic somehow, at least for me. We'd always had a good rapport in the past; our senses of humour meshed together well and I found him genuinely easy to talk to, in a way I did with virtually nobody else.

Being "closer" to C meant and talking to him far more led to me slowly becoming more dependent on him. I started falling for him, and becoming increasingly frustrated by my own extreme isolation and singledom. I envied his wife badly - I think C actually enjoyed that part, although he had to pretend he didn't obviously.

I tried to contain my feelings but occasionally they would spill over into a whingefest, which C always appeared listen to patiently. But instead of my feelings getting better, they just got more intense. Three weeks ago they culminated in a total meltdown over one of C's few actually innocent comments about his wife! It didn't matter: I was too far gone. Er, what are the rules of talking about suicide on this forum? Don't want to breach any rules but I was very very suicidal, hopeless and despairing.

After a day or two of that, I recovered and realised I had pushed C too far with my suicide talk. I apologised and promised I would never try to involve him in my suicide plans again. One reason I 'selected' him to approach was because he had always been one of the calmest and least flappable people I know. I didn't want anyone panicking on me; least of all I did not want to go back into the psychiatric ward!

However, while I recovered in one way I relapsed in another way. I became completely dependent on C's posts now, fantasising about going to Canada and being with him - of course I was aware of the wife, and knew it would hardly be that simple, but it didn't stop me from dreaming about it sometimes. By this point I wanted him as way more than a friend.

2-3 weeks ago I cautiously spilled the beans about my love for him, hedging it by saying "I think I probably love you". I mean, he had told me he had loved me several times over the years (only ever as friends of course :eye-roll: ), but this was the first time I had told him that. Or anyone that, to be honest. He.... basically ignored it: said something else and then added at the end of it, "Thank you for being honest". I was taken aback, but also relieved he wasn't freaked out by the confession of love. In fact really relieved and was euphoric for a day or two. Then reality settled in again and I started wondering about that odd little comment of his.

I didn't dive straight into a confrontation, not wanting to lose the plot as I had done over the suicide business (ha!). Spent many days absolutely obessing over him, trying to work out his motives, ways in which our friendship was most likely to pan out, and basically longing for him. I could just about function as normal in the daytime, but the nights were a nightmare, often literally so. I could not sleep without sleeping pills and even if I took a pill, I was awake 3 hours later. Now my sleeping pill stash has dwindled to almost nothing and my GP won't give me more zoplicone.

Ultimately I concluded I had no real hope with C. He seemed to enjoy the life of a married man too much and there had never been any indication of him divorcing or leaving his wife. I got that bit right at least. What I didn't anticipate was how quickly it would all go so terribly, terribly wrong.

Told him yesterday on WhatsApp how I felt, but with more conviction this time, instead of pretending oh it was nothing really. He claimed that it hurt him, that he didn't make friends easily (neither do I m8), that he was open about our friendship with his wife and there was nothing he wouldn't share with her. That was the highlight. It just went downhill all the way from there. I asked him if he'd ever had more than platonic feelings for me; he just kept on playing the fucking friendship card over and over again, to the point where he contradicted himself with it. (First he said it was an age thing and that he felt "very protective" of me, then a few minutes later he said he "thought of me as a peer".) Near the beginning somewhere he did seem to briefly panic, saying "fuck fuck fuck" - he doesn't normally swear. But after that he recovered his poise and his blandness.

He then had to go a meeting, saying "Goodbye my best friend". After he had gone, I said forlornly, "Is this it? Is this really it?".

He replied a couple of hours later saying he thought so and that we couldn't keep on doing this to each other. At that point I just lost my temper. Told him I couldn't work out why he needed a "best friend" on the side, when he had a wife and brother that he talked to every day. That I couldn't make sense of any of it, none of it added up to me. He proclaimed he had a happy marriage, a good relationship with his brother and had had a wonderful friendship with me. I said that it didn't ring true; he actually seemed a little irked at that and asked why the hell not.

I said because he compartmentalised absolutely everything, and that I thought he was hiding stuff from himself. If not true love, then at least the fact that his fucking great marriage wasn't all that fucking great. I then questioned him about what his wife actually knew about us. Again, another contradiction. Apparently she knows absolutely everything under the sun that there is to know about us, but uh, he wasn't sure she if she had read our WhatsApp messages or not.

Here's one last gem from him:

I've told her about my feelings for you. I've told her that I loved you. I've told her about your feelings for me. I told her that I felt close to you and that we had what I felt was a real connection.

To which the only thing I could say was: "Jesus christ, I bet she loved that."

He said his final words to me after that. He said he had to stop contact "for a while", that this was "really hurting him" and that he hated it was ending "like this". I replied more calmly, but it made no difference. He never answered back. I didn't say anything else again for many hours until 3am, where, once again, I couldn't sleep for love or money. I sent a few more rambling posts into the void. (Mostly more querying of his actions/motives and telling him to stop lying to me and his wife.) I said I was going to sleep. An hour later, he had checked the replies (as shown by the blue ticks) - and blocked me without a word in response to anything I had said.

That was the straw which broke the camel's back.

I not only was beyond heartbroken, I now - in the space of literally seconds - saw him in a new and utterly ghastly new light. I dunno how I got through the next few hours tbh. I dunno how I'm getting through any of these nights at the moment tbh. Night time to me now feels like an endless void, with no sleep, no rest, no respite. And where time has crawled to a virtually infinite crawl.

I sent him some angry messages on Twitter and had a go at his wife for being racist. (She's more anti-immigrant than full-on racist, but not always much difference between the two.) I fully expect to be unfollowed on Twitter when he wakes up. And probably blocked on email too.

I apologise for the long wall of text, but I'm way too tired to go back now and try to significantly shorten it whilst retaining all the meaning. The tl;dr version is I had a 5-year-old close friendship with a married man, to which I thought there was something more and ultimately yearned extremely heavily for something more.

The thing which hurts the most is not the romantic rejection (although that certainly hurts as well), it's the being lied to and then ran away from. Up until yesterday I thought he was a good guy who had my back in all situations! Before him, my mum badly let me down. I genuinely feel like I will never be able to trust another person again. They can seem okay for years... and then, bam, they cut you off just like that. I can't deal with that. I don't know how to move on from here. The possibility of a romantic relationship with anybody at all, ever, has receded to zero.

OP posts:
YearOfYouRemember · 01/05/2018 16:08

TL DR

You have no business with someone else's husband. It's hard but you're an adult. It's time to do the necessary.

Ohyesiam · 01/05/2018 16:08

It sounds like he implied that he could offer you a lot, then back peddled when he realised how deep in you were, because that would take it out of fantasy into reality.
I don’t doubt the depth of his feelings for you, but he is not prepared to come into reality and make any life changes for you. Which must hurt like fuck.

I was in a similar/ not similar situation once and got a lot of help from reading Facing Love Addiction, and reading snout codependency.

I want to know that you have some supper irl op. Do you have someone to talk to?

StayingAtTamaras · 01/05/2018 16:09

@mzcracker that's extremely unnecessary and unkind.

MadisonMontgomery · 01/05/2018 16:09

I don’t think that it is that he doesn’t have your back - he was a platonic friend to whom you have declared your feelings to, and as he is married he has had to end the friendship. I’m not sure what else he could have done in the circumstances.

Ohyesiam · 01/05/2018 16:10

Just read your last post.
He didn’t fail to read you, it’s just your revelation brought him out of the compartmentalising he has been doing.

DuchyDuke · 01/05/2018 16:11

Online exchanges aren’t real friendships or relationships. You need to get out into the real world and socialize more, no matter how difficult it is.

StayingAtTamaras · 01/05/2018 16:12

Ah yes, the mythical "help" which doesn't exist for poor people. My GP is nice, but she can't magic up therapy and services which don't exist.

It does! Have you tried talking to the GP and asking for therapy? I've been having it for over a year for free after being referred by my GP. I had to push a lot to get it but it does exist.

Thespringsthething · 01/05/2018 16:15

You are not the first person to fall for someone who appears to offer a lot more than just friendship (I don't message my friends like he messaged you at all). I have seen it happen many times. I do think it's on him as well, in that he is culpable, because he didn't have to say all the things he said to you, he could have left it at a more superficial friendship. Unfortunately you did fall for you, and you are now stuck with those feelings.

It is not about even high-functioning autistic, although this may make you more vulnerable, I have lots of NT friends who have become besotted with someone and the person has thrown them a bone every now and again and it has gone on for years, unfortunately never into a proper relationship.

It sounds like this guy liked you as a companion, a very intense and deep friendship, but is now worried this might spill into real life and affect him/life/his wife.

I'm sorry that he wasn't clearer early on, I don't think these type of friendships are very helpful when one person is single, and if I were this guy's wife I would not be AT ALL happy with his gushing singing your praises telling you he loved you and thought you were so ace act which then abruptly ended when you declared you had feelings back.

I would not message a single guy for years in the way he messaged you and although you definitely have run with this in your own head too, he should have stepped back and been clearer.

Poor you, I really feel for you, I have friends who have had huge crushes/limerance going on years and its not a nice feeling. I hope you have the strength to deal with this and I wish you all the best in doing so. I'd also say online friends can be great, but not this one, perhaps a message board with a greater number of people might be the way to go.

noughtsandcrosses123 · 01/05/2018 16:18

@Ohysesiam - Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I'm not seeing this picture of a creepy obessive of me that everyone is portraying. Even if I turned into a creepy obsessive in the last three weeks, it felt like 99% of it was in my head - the fantasies etc. And he himself didn't seem to pick up on it until yesterday either. I mean, he was messaging me, writing letters for me, offering to phone my mum and GP for me - are those the actions of a man who thinks you are an obsessive creep trying to take over his life?

Bear in mind I didn't ask him to do a single thing for me, like write the letter, phone anyone etc. All this was offered of his own free will. Likewise, I wouldn't have asked him to have left his wife for me. I got mad, because I was convinced he wasn't telling me the truth, but fobbing me off - he said in his freaking letter how "transparent and open" our friendship was, so I wanted some of that actual transparency and openness.

And, from my point of view, got abandoned virtually as soon as I asked for it.

OP posts:
Thespringsthething · 01/05/2018 16:19

Also, I'd point out that on MN people are usually very condemning of the guy who is married and not at all blaming of any other person involved.

He was married. He was having probably what most people might describe as an emotional (albeit online) affair.

Saying to someone who is probably high functioning autistic 'go out and socialize' is borderline disablist.

I don't see any point in making people's lives worse by posting. If you had a high functioning autistic friend and they came to you with this dilemma, how would you speak to them? What tone? Use that one then.

ArtBrut · 01/05/2018 16:20

Noughts, C was just an online acquaintance. You met, by your account, through the fact that both of you suffered from depression, and used the same online forum for support. I mean this kindly, but it is not the job of a man you have never met who lives on another continent, and who has had his own struggles with depression, to commit to being the lifelong support of a vulnerable individual. You are asking too much of him.

Obviously, you know, and posters on here do not, what went on between you over the years, but the way in which you are over-interpreting some ordinarily affectionate messages, from a man you say had an effusive style anyway, and the way you seem to think that he should have been endlessly complimenting his wife to you if his marriage were really happy, suggests you were over-invested, and that he withdrew once he realised that platonic support and comradeliness weren't going to be enough for you.

Repeated declarations of love combined with a recent suicide threat, especially not long after you had been in an acute psychiatric ward, you getting angry at him saying something nice about his wife, angry Twitter messages and attacks on his wife's social media would frighten anyone, noughts. Those are things you need to take responsibility for, and they are not the actions of a well person.

mickeymacca · 01/05/2018 16:21

This man(who you've never met) isn't responsible for you or your mental health.

noughtsandcrosses123 · 01/05/2018 16:23

@StayingAtTamaras - Yes I have. I'm part of a mental health team, but my communications with them is sporadic to say the least. My support worker is nice but isn't a therapist and doesn't seem able to handle my angry feelings (note, I'm not talking about swearing and throwing things; I'm talking about agitation and a raised voice, but not screaming).

There isn't any proper therapy available in my therapy at all. The useless psychologist just keeps on saying I was offered a course of CBT years ago and so can't be offered anymore - I wish I was exaggerating this but I am not.

@Thespringsthething - Again, thank you so much for an understanding post.

OP posts:
Babyplaymat · 01/05/2018 16:26

He saw you as a friend. A very good friend. You saw him as more. When he didn't reciprocate you got angry and feel led on. But from what I can see, bar being a firm and affectionate friend he has done no such thing.

Bumshkawahwah · 01/05/2018 16:28

OP, I don't think the situation is as black-and-white as other people are making out.

I do think that possibly your mental health issues have led you to going a bit over the edge here. I think if you were seeing clearly, maybe you would see that the way a guy was messaging you this way while he was married was not right. Or at least getting it to such a highly personal level was a bit dodgy. If it were my husband I wouldn't be thrilled if he had such a deep connection with someone online. As for his wife, it doesn't matter if she is a wingnut, she is his wife and the person he's chosen to spend his life with.

And I don't think he is completely innocent. I think he has drawn you but without ever promising anything. He's played his part in encouraging and getting close to a vulnerable, depressed person in turmoil. I suspect that some of his own ego has led to this. I possibly have started off with good intentions but I suspect your friendship has been an ego boost to him also. As someone else said, probably he's compartmentalised your whole friendship, and quite possibly was aware that you had feelings for him. It's only when you went a bit nuclear that he cut you off.

It's really difficult and I feel for you hugely, but it is hard to trust someone that you only not online. I think in future the minute you know someone is married you need to set a really strict boundaries and take a step back.

It sounds like this friendship is been such a crutch to you and such an escape from the awful problems you've had in the past year. I'm sorry you've been left feeling like this, and I'm not sure what to suggest. I know it seems to be obvious to other people has not been obvious to you. But I do genuinely think that he probably enjoyed your attention and friendship also, but got a big shock when it went as far as it did.

I read some time ago that someone said that the future of depression sometimes can just be a complete lack of perspective, or a skewed perspective. I wonder if that's what's going on here with you.

AllRoadsLeadBackToRadley · 01/05/2018 16:46

First of all, I'm no expert.

But I do know that friendships based on something as raw as a common MH issue csn quickly become intense, life consuming and sometimes unhealthy.

I know this is REALLY not helpful...but I get it.

KingLooieCatz · 01/05/2018 16:51

I guess he has enjoyed and encouraged your attention and possible dependence, without really thinking through the consequences. Perhaps his life is as challenging for him as yours is for you, and that has led him to make some errors in judgment. Perhaps you are right on the money that he has or had romantic feelings for you, but he's making it very clear that he has no wish to act on them.

Another way of looking at this is that maybe the end of your on-line relationship with this man is clearing the decks for something or someone to come into your life that adds more meaningful value.

Also bear in mind people can be anyone they pretend to be on-line.

If you are drawing a blank with NHS support for depression, maybe you can get some advice on the mental health board.

something2say · 01/05/2018 17:04

Can you look back over it and learn?

And can you self help in any way?

Iflyaway · 01/05/2018 17:48

Sorry I couldn't read all of it. Too long.

I did notice you used a name - maybe changed - but it could be identifying....

Anyway, I got as far as "joking about being my stalker" - that would make me run for the hills!

PrizeOik · 01/05/2018 20:39

Poor you OP. I'm sorry you're suffering.

The way I read your post, it sounds like he was a very open, honest, loving and supportive friend to you, and he loves his wife.

For whatever reason, you got into an internal dialogue with yourself where he was in love with you and was unhappy with his wife. I don't think that was true though op. I think that was a story you told yourself :(

The things you say are lies that you caught him out in - to someone who had it all in perspective, it would be fairly obvious that he wasn't lying, just speaking colloquially, not with perfect precision.

I know you're angry but you definitely got this situation badly wrong. He didn't do anything wrong here. And he's not responsible for your mental health in any way. He was just being a friend to you but unfortunately your fantasies got out of control and he must have got a huge fright when you went off the rails like that at him.

You definitely need support, you sound unwell and vulnerable. Please can't you phone the Samaritans, if nothing else? You've had a dreadful time x

littkeredchairs · 02/05/2018 05:31

I think if you had met in person you both would have read the signs better. When you take two depressed people who are probably quite introverted anyway and make all the communication online, the intimacy is deceptive and it becomes hard to judge the level of the relationship. You end up telling each other things that you don’t tell other people in the subconscious knowledge that you are protected by distance and being behind computer screens. I realise this is stating the obvious, but it is relevant here. Especially perhaps with him.

He obviously had a limit, and i’d guess that he realised even after he had written letters and become involved in your welfare, you wanted even more than that. It seems he reached the end of his boundary in dealing with it and switched off. It must have been quite daunting for him to realise that on top of the help he was already giving from another continent, you wanted and needed even more.

It is not his responsibility to read the signs from you about how you are feeling and treat you accordingly. I know he took responsibility for you to some extent, but he has every right to revoke that if he feels the responsibility is too much or your expectations of him are too much or he simply had other stuff going on in his life. This is just a fact of life that we all feel the sharp edge of sometimes and the only time someone can be held accountable for someone else’s welfare and feelings or told they should have “read the signs” is when that person is a parent and the person they are caring for is their child.

I understand that with autism it is very hard to adjust when a person behaves one way and then suddenly appears to behave the opposite. It sends your world and everything you believe into Freefall

I think you can safely believe that you and he were close and good friends, that you had a real and honest connection, that he does genuinely care - but that due to many factors including probably his own personal reasons (and don’t forget he also has suffered from depression in the past so there are MH issues there too and he may need to shut down more than other people,) he had to cut things off.

Please see from these replies that we acknowledge that you are hurting but that in some aspects your hurt and anger at him and the responsibility you are putting on him for it, are not justified.

Sturmundcalm · 02/05/2018 05:45

I think you are overestimating the ability of someone neurotypical to "read" a situation/other people...

He appears to only have known you online and he has his own mental health problems. he may be the kind of person who just likes to write exceptionally long and gushy posts about anything - not my style but I've seen other folk who do that.

And I have a husband that I love and kids that live with me, and sisters that I'm close to and I STILL work hard at keeping friendships going because most people want different relationships in their lives.

I'm not sure it's fair to paint him as being the one responsible for making all of the choices in your relationship. You've clearly had some really bad things happen recently but he's not responsible for those, and he's not responsible for the fact that after 5 years of friendship your feelings/expectations of him have shifted dramatically.

Hope you can find a way forward.

Leedsgirlfriend · 02/05/2018 06:06

I think you need to talk this over with a mental health worker or therapist. You deserve to find a man who lives near you and who you can have a relationship with in the real world rather than online. Communication is much easier when you can actually see someone. Perhaps this guy wasn’t who you thought he was.

analyticalquesadilla · 02/05/2018 06:20

Ohmigoodness OP. I can understand why you aren't recognising the creepy stalker obsessive thing as being who you were (up until a few weeks ago).

From what you've written, it sounds like you took him at his word that he saw your friendship as transparent and open. And you were fairly tentative at first when you told him what you were feeling. You're very open about how your behaviour recently hasn't been healthy. I really feel for you.

So as I was reading, my main thoughts are:

  • the letters you've quoted seem really gushy; to me they're massively inappropriate in these circumstances. Did he instigate the writing of that letter to your medical team? That feels like an overstep of a boundary. You've mentioned your sexual / romantic naiivity, and I'm wondering if somebody a bit more experienced would have seen this as controlling and manipulative - that's how it reads to me.
  • at the point at which you started to feel more for him and fantasise about a life together, was that ever a warning flag for you? Did you consider reining it in? How 'real' was it to you that you might end up together? Do you think it was your mental health problems driving this? Or naiivity again? Or something else? Again, from an outside perspective it reads as obvious that it was never going to happen.
  • I'm sorry that you've not found the support you need for your MH. I recognise the scenario you describe of inadequate provision. It's tough out there if you're unlucky enough to be mentally unwell.
  • as others have said, the way you speak about his wife does read as very unkind, and in this context it adds to the picture of you obsessing and perhaps being selective in which parts of the story you've focused on.
  • my gut feeling from what you've written is that he wanted to have his cake and eat it, and that you (partly through naiivity, perhaps partly because you were low and maybe a bit self-centred as we can all be sometimes...?) went along. It became real for you but it was never going to be real for him.
SD1978 · 02/05/2018 06:23

Obviously only you know the tone of the emails he sent- but your examples don’t scream that he was emotionally with you. You became more dependent on hi. Than he did on you. MH forums can be great- but at the same time the level of support you need at times may not be possible there- everyone on them had their own battles. Regardless of his side- you have become too involved, and need to find a way to step back, and safely.