Why is my friend single?

[Puzzledd]

She is:

36
Attractive
Has an excellent job
Owns her own home
Very confident, friendly and chatty.
Interesting and has a lot to say

However she's only had one relationship since she was 21, it was for a few months and he ended it without giving her a reason.

She's very proactive on online dating, match.com events etc and I sometimes wonder if maybe she's a bit too much? I've never been in to that stuff so never seen her in action in that environment.

She's also incredibly generous and accommodating, to her own detriment actually.

She's been a bit down lately about being unattached and it remains a total mystery to my why she hasn't been snapped up.

She's big in to self improvement and is always up to something, she has a really busy social life.

Anyone similar or got any similar pals who might be able to shed a bit of light? I really want to help her but I'm stumped.

Case in point- you suggested posting elsewhere but didn’t actually give your opinion! (Unless you’d posted upthread and I missed it...)

Jessie - yes they do! Just different forums to mumsnet.

Try the Pie & Piston on Pistonheads.

And as for my opinion.... OK here goes.

I think it's possible that the OPs friend might not be giving off the right vibes. Isn't it said that 90% of communication is non-verbal? Twiddling your hair and smiling at someone's jokes might come across as cheesy but - speaking from experience - it works. Yes, I AM that sad.

Some people (men and women) are natural flirts, some aren't. I think it's a key skill that not everyone has. Your mouth might be saying "I find you interesting" but your face can be saying "please go away".

In my experience a lot of attractive women who have difficulty attracting men don't realise the "dis-interested" vibe they give off.

Just a possibility.

I have a theory on this which has won some converts on various other forums I've been on. It's the result of my own experience (I'm 38, have been chronically single since my teens - have done around 10 years OLD, with perhaps 7 of those years being intense dating (2-4 dates per week - many second, third, fourth dates until I'm sure they're not right for me, many new men for first dates) and the extensive reading I've done on the subject trying to work out why men's company never really feels satisfying to me even though I've had loads of guys really interested in me - a fair few who have fallen in love with me with many being "perfect" on paper in terms of being good looking, successful, kind, stable and keen to pursue marriage and have children etc).

I believe research shows that the key to a successful relationship is high levels of "emotion work" from both parties (and a lack of catastrophic failures such as being abusive, cheating, abusing drugs etc). If you read research from the Gottman Institute, whatever they call it, it's always "emotion work" that makes relationships work. Emotion work is a vast field of behaviours but what I've recently learnt from feminism is that women are simply socialised to do vastly more of pretty much every type of this work there is. Which means that men get a far more satisfying experience from relationships than do women and why women divorce men at twice the rate that men divorce women.

I think that women who are emotionally intelligent understand their needs and see or feel this imbalance, even where they don't have the knowledge to name it or explain it. They therefore keep moving on, looking for a man who will do the high levels of emotion work required to make the relationship feel equal and satisfying. Most never find him because he is so incredibly rare. Some will settle for less, some will settle for a lifetime without a partner.

One thing that really surprised me for years and which this theory explains, is the fact that it was my least socially able female friends who have had the most success in romantic relationships (with a few exceptions - I do have a few female friends who are very socially able and have been successful). The ones who I really thought would struggle, find partners quickly and easily and the ones I thought would have no problems at all are having huge problems. I believe this is because women with poorer social skills do less emotion work (because they don't know how to do it and are often unaware of it's existence) and are therefore far closer to the levels that a typical man will do. They therefore find equal relationships quickly and easily and are not unsatisfied in them because they don't observe their partner making drastically less effort than they do.

While there have been some blunt exchanges regarding advice about flirting, laughing at men's jokes etc this is all emotion work and in all honesty many intelligent women do this without thinking, it's such an ingrained behaviour. Men simply don't do this for women to the same extent though - research shows this and my own experience confirms it - and in my opinion this is what's going wrong for single women who seem to have it all. They likely already laugh at men's jokes and make the effort to ask about the things men are interested in but don't get this back.

I should say this doesn't apply to all chronically single women (and by the sounds of things OP's friend may fall into a different category if she is experiencing a lot of rejection) but i think a large number would have this apply to them.

Jesus - that turned out longer than I'd intended!

Can you give an example of “emotion work” Mangelorange? I’m not sure I quite get what you mean.

I have a friend like this. She is 47 do older than your friend but has been single for most of the 17 years I have known her. She is different in that she goes for completely unattainable men - men who are married or men who show no interest in her. She has a good job, her own house and doesn't want children. I did wonder if deep down she actually wasn't interested in a relationship but just thought that was expected of her. To be honest if I was in her position, it would be an almighty risk to hook up with a man who was not financially stable or who did not own their own home. She stands to lose quite a lot of freedom, life wise and financially by being in a relationship. If you have a lot to lose and you are used to doing things your own way, maybe you have to be much more choosy. Falling in love isn't enough on its own. Sometimes people think they need to be in partnerships because society makes it so difficult to be a single woman rather than it being what they really want.

I have some gorgeous female friends who are single and know lots of men too. I once asked some of the blokes why the women are single and always got the same answers"emotionally too hard work", "too aggressive", "doesn't compromise".

Emotion work is all the mental effort we put in on behalf of other people to make their lives better, easier, happier, more fulfilling etc. So things like asking people questions in conversation (making an active effort to say "I find you and what you're saying interesting" with your actions), smiling to show appreciation, approval etc in our interactions with them, offering comforting words and emotional support when they are struggling but also raising difficult topics and attempting to find compromises when there's a disagreement, remaining positive when others around you are behaving in difficult ways. Right the way through to the mental effort involved in planning dates, making arrangements that take other people into account (this is one that I think men might actually be expected to do more of in the early stages of dating but everything else is effort women are typically expected to make far more often and far more competently than are men.

The book "Wife work" has a lot about this. I think there's a chapter on "the wifely art of emotional caregiving" or some such but it's throughout the book which highlights all the ways in which women simply put far more effort into relationships and end up miserable as a result of expecting but not getting the same levels of effort made on their behalf.

I’m not sure Mange. Most of what you describe there I would say are qualities that come naturally to my husband and I think it is a bit dangerous to suggest that no men are emotionally intelligent (or that all women are).

That said, perhaps by your mid 30s all the ones who do have these qualities are already taken.

@MangeLorange I totally get what you mean. My partner does a lot of the emotion work. After 3 years of fruitless online dating and dalliances with deeply unsuitable men he was really a breath of fresh air.

@MangeLorange what’s more, if he hadn’t displayed these characteristic early on then I would probably have walked away - I was too emotionally bruised to waste time on someone who wasn’t displaying high levels of interest in me and v straightforward.

I don't think I'm too fussy, I just have 4 things I look for in a man.

What I'm looking for:

Looks - I'm looking for a man I find physically attractive - because how can anyone sleep with a man they don't fancy??
Chemistry is very important to me & luckily I think lots of men are quite attractive so I'm not too fussy!
I make an effort with my appearance (hair, fashion, make up, gym etc) so I do expect a man to be fairly well groomed & not too overweight- I've lost lots of weight & it was very hard work, I would want a man to be similarly healthy.

He would have to rent or own his own his place like I do, no living with mother.

He would have similar views too - No Fascists, ukippers, ultra-right tories or rascists.
Im very passionate about my political views & morals.

Very important is a man who is kind & considerate to others.
Who treats everyone as his equal, likes children & animals, & isn't bitchy or nasty about others.

I've met lots of men who do fit those criteria they just tend to already have wives or girlfriends, or they're players, or gay....

Tierra, that’s more than 4 things. A very reasonable list but more than 4 things.

Does she show men very clearly that she is interested in them?

Is she coming across as too chatty (not listening to them) or too serious (not fun)?

Is she very picky?

IMO my long term single friends all of one or more of these characteristics.

I think you'd be best asking male friends/family what they think.

I'm not saying no men are emotionally intelligent or that no men do high levels of emotion work Jessie - I've known a small number of men who have been miles ahead of your average woman on these things but looking at the population as a whole, research does show that men are socialised to do far less of this stuff and to think about it a lot less than women are. My experience definitely backs this up and has done throughout my life - there weren't masses of men with these skills when I was younger and there aren't now either. If you've struck it lucky though and have the skills and work ethic to make the relationship last then good for you - a life of happiness most likely awaits you both!

Tierra The only men I know who fit your description are the ones that are married and the wife has made them that way. Most fit some of your points but not all.

I would say a lot of the ones i know who ended up with friends either lacked fashion sense or were unfit or both.
I know some who weren't passionate about anything apart from their business or sport/football team.

Most of the time it is about finding someone you can get on with. A lot of the rest is window dressing that can be added later.

I once asked some of the blokes why the women are single and always got the same answers"emotionally too hard work", "too aggressive", "doesn't compromise"

I can understand that. I wouldn't like a male partner like that either.

It’s just simply about your standards
High standards in men and aged +35 as a woman = wait a long time to find Mr right

Low standards = dates several times a week

I say this as an attractive, 33 year old size 10, 5’8, 34dd, very toned gym mad, professionally successful and homeowner female.

Excuse the stealth boast but trying to get things into context

Oh and the thing about men not wanting successful women- absolute tripe as most of my female colleagues who are married/partnered seem to be with other doctors (consultants), bankers, finance, directors, lawyers.

I think it’s about your circumstances and luck. A lot met their partners through uni or work.

Online dating is a mine filed and majority of male users are actually already married/partnered or not looking for a relationship.... that’s why it is hard.

I employed a carpenter to refurbish my sash windows and he is married and recently tried to contact me for a date I promptly reminded him about his wife and kids.

I think OLD can get to be addictive.

We suspect at least one of our friends is addicted to the thrill of meeting someone new sometimes 2,3 or even 6 times in a weekend.

Another friend who did it for about 6 weeks after her divorce found it depressing and couldn't understand other friend doing it for years. The ones she went out with were either married or much much older than they said or just wanted a shag.
She eventually got together with someone who her friends had literally tried to set her up with from before her first marriage but fate had had other ideas. Eventually she met him completely randomly. Seated next to each other on a flight from abroad. They got on and realised as they chatted they had the same mutual friends.

I have the same problem with married men - they know I'm single & try it on; but I don't want to have an affair.

If I was married I would never trust my husband I'm afraid!!

I think it's my dads fault that my standards for men are too high!
He's smart, slim, well groomed & a kind caring person.
At 70 he lives alone (happily) & looks after himself well.

So I kind of expect other men to have similar standards.

I know women find my dad attractive but he doesn't notice when they flirt with him, bless him!

You could look at the other end of the spectrum for an answer to this question - who are the women who, despite not being perfect/young etc always just seem to end up finding decent blokes fairly easily.

I do think that a lot lies in an ability some people just have to make the other person feel 'special', as though there is a 'fit'. I don't think it's a good or bad thing or necessarily associated with being hair twirly, I just think some people, men and women, do exude this more than others

So I guess it's possible that women who really struggle, despite being lovely, don't have this quality as much - perhaps somehow don't seem available? (alongside all the demographic/education stuff as well of course). I'm thinking that my reaction of wanting it to go further with men in the past has been to do with this feeling of connection and I'm just not convinced that's the same thing as someone being polite, charming, friendly etc. I don't think mating is this subjective judgement of the goods!

Mange, that does make sense to me. I've previously tried OLD, and on the few dates I've been on, I'd show interest in what they'd say to me then wait for them to show some interest in me in return. It very rarely came. The prospect of spending years like that made me shudder.

I wouldn't see myself as hard work, but I do want to play the lead role in my own life rather than the support role in someone else's (apart from dd's). I believe that there are men out there who might be fine with this - certainly one of my brothers is like this with his wife - but I accept that they may be relatively rare. I'm educated (finishing a PhD), independent, opinionated, and I like making my own decisions. I'm a little bit sad that this might mean travelling solo all my life, but I'd rather go in my own direction solo than follow in someone else's direction. I accept that some people will see these as negative traits in me (how selfish!) but I'm okay with that. I choose to be my full self by myself rather than a half-self with someone else.

I'm a great catch, I've just evaded capture!

I agree with mangelorange

I think I am a classic Story because when I got married it was evident to me unconsciously that I was doing all the emotional work. Obviously I had been socialised into it by society but also felt like I needed to be “taken off the shelf” due to pressure from parents and friends.

I thought - okay - I can put up with this level of emotional work and take care of myself as well, I can take this on. And for the sake of being accepted by society and my family and being seen as being successful, I did.

But then you have children and the emotional (and physical) work increases and you find you are married to a man who will not contribute one inch more to the emotional or physical work he was doing going into the marriage. So you are carrying the ever-increasing emotional and physical burden.

A lot of my friends who I now see did not need that acceptance from society, who had resources and intelligence - physical, emotional or material - which meant they had greater options when they met people like my husband, would have felt what he brought to the table was not enough and would have swiftly moved on.

I know there were several women who dated my husband before me and met things slide because they felt he did not give them enough. When he and I met, everyone thought I must have transformed him. But no - I was just prepared to accept and tolerate things others were not.