13 year old DD saying awful things to other children.... Please help!

[CelestialBean]

DD s 13. DP has a 4 year old DD who stays with us but doesn't live with us.

We had a lot of stress with DP's ex and have just been through a massive and very stressful court case. DD was aware of how difficult and stressful it was.

DD has a habit of saying very spiteful things when she is annoyed or upset. So yesterday she told DP's DD that her mother was dead......

DP's DD asked me if it was true, luckily she doesn't really understand the concept and I was able to explain that of course she's not and that she's absolutely fine.

DP was furious with my DD (as was I). DP didn't shout at her, he left it for me to deal with her which i was glad of. DD then stormed to the bottom of the garden and howled loudly. DP had to carry her into the house at 9pm (sent straight to her room) where she drew all over her face and arms in red pen and wrote him a note saying how horrible he is and he makes her want to kill herself and has done many times....

She is a bit sheepish and quiet today. DP is still very angry. He's asked how I plan to punish her.

She's had therapy before after her father left to live 200 miles away and start a new family a year ago. She was very upset about this and had lots of rages where she'd threaten to hurt herself or jump out of a window. She has calmed down a lot since though.

why did he throw the ball in her face?

I asked my DP. We have a comparable family set up with an absent father 2+2 kids etc. We are both at a bit of a loss for the violence. Personally I'd probably opt for the police. But I'd call first and talk to them. I'd point out that if someone else had done that to my kid I'd definitely be pushing for police involvement.

Just saw that she punched her brother. She has serious anger management issues going on.

Spend some one on one time with her and ask why she does this calmly. We all get angry, but she needs to find a better way of handling her emotions. Like walking away...counting to 10...breathing deeply.

She seems to hurt the people closest to her and if this doesn't get under control... it could extend to her romantic relationships in the future. The lashing out when she's angry or being hurtful.

How would she feel if someone told her you were dead?

Her behaviour could fracture your relationship... if I was the 4 year olds mum....I wouldn't want her at your place tbh.

The kid is literally so damaged now she doesn't care what happens to her.

I have worked in the mental health field for 30yrs and my OH is a Psychiatrist. So I dont get drawn into the emotions of some dramatic posters on MN. OP seek some help for all of you. Your DD is not the 'problem'. She is exhibiting behaviours that challenge due to some very stressful experiences during her short life. Go and get some proper help for you all.

Sorry realised I had NC earlier...previous hairymorag was me...

I had a long talk with DD this evening. I explained how her behaviour affects other people and tried swapping the roles around in an attempt to get her to see this.

I asked if she was still upset about her DF, she said no she genuinely isn't, she's now used to it.

I asked whether she feels unloved or left out and she assured me she really doesn't. I explained we all love her but are just very upset by her behaviour.

She said she just gets very angry sometimes. She has always had this problem since she was young.

She apologised to DS and wrote a note to DP apologising and explaining.

She says she is upset/angry at herself as well as being angry at DP. She said she's angry at him because he's upset with her.

So she needs therapy help CBT etc.

And family therapy might help too.

Punishment will NOT be helpful here. She needs to talk. If an adult did this we would recommend therapy, right? She’s 13 and discussion of WHY she does this will help far more than any punishment ever would.

Sorry missed latest update. It’s good you discussed this with DD and the letter idea was good too. Much much better than ‘punishment’.

. If an adult did this we would recommend therapy, right?

Wrong. If an adult did this it would be called child abuse.

Your update sounds positive op. Getting her to open up about being angry is brilliant. There are still consequence to that though so she needs to understand whilst you will 100% support her emotionally any further negative behaviour that impacts the other children will not be excused.

Loving support and boundaries not excuses and minimising.

She's hurting. Punishing her won't help, it will driver a big wedge between you. She clearly needs more therapy, you talking to her won't make a difference because children find it hard to open up to their parents. She may even see you as part of the problem (not that I'm saying she's right). She needs professional help, someone who has had experience with dealing with this sort of thing. Please find her the help she needs.

Hi,

Have you thought about offering or demanding a physical outlet for her feelings?

I read a parenting article some time ago in which a father said something along the lines of wanting his young teen to do something for him for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

It was jogging/running. The item was written by the now grown up child who said it changed their life. Sounds like hyperbole but i can see how it would do.

Incidentally the author was older than your daughter so could see your might need to run with her. Or perhaps instigate mandatory, long, family walks were you two can separate from the group and spend time together or she can spend time with siblings and your dp out in the open air.

She could join a running club on your insistence or start swimming.

Please note, I'm not suggesting therapy and other measures aren't needed but exercise as a family or alone is a really positive step that I wish someone had taken with me. I am an obese adult and just really embarking on exercise for the first time and it really helps my frustrations and severe pmt.

Forcing her to run for half an hour (3 miles ish) 3 x a week!!!. WTF are you on?
This kid must feel utterly powerless after her life has been turned upside down by the adults who should love her most, and now you are talking about talking away her bodily autonomy by 'requiring' her to do what sounds like a hard physical penance??

Does she do any sport out of interest. Because it wouldn't do any harm. I have an angry child and she's definitely much calmer after sport.

OP - I think you need to realise that what she momentarily ‘feels’ is COMPLETELY DIFERENT to what’s going on with her mentally and emotionally. Like - abused people don’t spend their whole time being upset about it - but that doesn’t mean they aren’t affected in profound psychological ways by what they have suffered.
You and your exH have turned her world upside down - taken away all her sense of security and solid ground and you ask her if she is ‘upset’?? Seriously?

So I’ll ask again - what are you offering to DO to reconnect with her? You need to embrace her and support her with your actions - because words are pretty unconvincing when they aren’t backed up with actions. Especially when someone is feeling insecure and expected to accept a life she never possibly imagined twelve months earlier.
I think she needs support and help - and I suspect your whole family dynamic is problematic - and, sorry, but I think you are facing up to what needs to change.

Totally agree that 3 miles is too much..

However, perhaps I didn't explain it very well. In my example the teen was older. And my suggestion was for activity in general be it a run with her mum for 20min a few times a week (who said 3 miles?! I couldn't do that at 13 or now, lol), or a walk after tea or a longer family walk at the weekend or perhaps swimming.

I'm not suggesting it will solve any larger problems that need counselling but rather provide both an outlet and a chance for the OP to spend time with her DD in a low key way. By low key I mean spending time focussed on another task with a shared goal (to get it done or over with), that doesn't require talking. It might not be low key at the start if it's against her will but over time can help.

I definitely do think you can force the issue with a 13 yo unless they are well off the rails. Of course by 15+ it's a different story.

It's quite well documented that exercise provides relief from depression, anxiety and pmt all of which might be going on here. If the OP or her dd are overweight like me then make it a mandatory walk. Bring siblings or not. Let sibs play at the playground and make the 13yo walk circuits of the field with you.

My sister at 12/13 was very very similar to the OP's description of her DD. By 15 yo down a road with self harm and some drugs use. She eventually came round but not before dropping out of secondary school and never going back. She has told me that this sort if attention from my parents would have made a difference but alas my mother was a high functioning alcohoic who worked all day but had other plans with drink in the evening. Y father was concerned but lived elsewhere.

During the crucial time that the OP is at, my sister was mishandled by my parents with punishments that excluded her. What I am suggesting is actually mandatory inclusion in a physical capacity.

Anyway, maybe the OP and her dd are already very sporty? It was just an idea and not one that warrants a "wtf are you nuts?" reply.

I've writ a way longer reply in justification than I intended so I'm sorry for that. I do run off at the mouth, lol, but perhaps my reply will help someone else.

My son was helped massively by sport pos I guess I'm also biased by that.

*aren't facing up

Dadaist makes some great points. And I think my post is trying ask if you are willing to DO or are DOING anything to reconnect that might involve excersise which helps with the underlying problem. Of course maybe you can "DO" something else which will be helpful but if there is anger than exercise followed by some routine of calm (if possible), I believe would help.

That is quite enough from me. Xx

I like the sporty inclusion idea as it will help strengthen your relationship Op as well as giving her a physical outlet for her stress. My eldest struggled to self regulate his emotions and we instigated a dinner time ritual where everyone gave one great thing and one awful thing from their day. Good/bad gave no results. Some days we went round and round but it allowed him to speak it, process it and have family support. He has settled down well now so we have let it go by the by.

Looking through your posts, you have mentioned that she might write a letter to dd's mum. I think it might be useful to get her to write a letter to you and you could maybe write one back to her.

Although the behaviour can't carry on unchecked, it would be good if you could reconnect and maybe understand each other better.

If she does write down what is bothering her, you can then have a proper think before sitting down with her. Use the opportunity to let her know that her feelings are valid and what you will do to support her. However, make it clear that there will be consequences for her behaviour (apologies, making something for sibling, removing elect devices etc) every single time.

That is only fair. She can't argue with give and take on both sides. Maybe if she sees her actions written down in her own hand, it might drive home the seriousness of it. If she sees a response from you, she might feel listened to and more secure.

How are you doing OP? I hope things are going well. Such a tough situation. Xx